Gavin Floyd?

[Jack Parkman]

As of right now, Floyd is a blowhard. However, 120 innings is not enough to make an assessment to banish a pitcher to AAAA status no matter how pissed we were last night. Floyd needs to throw his 93-94 mph 4 seamer more and get a little more giddy-up on the 2 seamer. On the 4 seamer, if he throws it more it will probably creep back to topping out at 96. I wonder if he is just learning the 2 seamer, because his velocity on it is so inconsistent. at times it was 86-88, other times it was 90-92, and if he is just learning it, then why did he rely on it so much last night against the best hitting team. He HAS to throw the curveball for strikes. I'd probably describe it as a 12-6 nightmare. If Floyd can find the control on his curve, and get consistent velocity on the 2 seamer, then he has a shot, and watch out AL.

Edited July 25, 2007 by southsida86

[RockRaines]

Gavin should make people appreciate John Danks that much more.

[southsideirish71]

As of right now, Floyd is a blowhard. However, 120 innings is not enough to make an assessment to banish a pitcher to AAAA status no matter how pissed we were last night. Floyd needs to throw his 93-94 mph 4 seamer more and get a little more giddy-up on the 2 seamer. On the 4 seamer, if he throws it more it will probably creep back to topping out at 96. I wonder if he is just learning the 2 seamer, because his velocity on it is so inconsistent. at times it was 86-88, other times it was 90-92, and if he is just learning it, then why did he rely on it so much last night against the best hitting team. He HAS to throw the curveball for strikes. I'd probably describe it as a 12-6 nightmare. If Floyd can find the control on his curve, and get consistent velocity on the 2 seamer, then he has a shot, and watch out AL.

 

You realize that velocity is not everything. We play in a park conducive to home runs. That is probably why they are going to the 2 seamer over the 4 seamer. I think with two strikes, he should try to throw a chest high 4 seamer with some velocity on it. That would setup his curve.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

His curveball was garbage yesterday. Certainly not the monstrous hook some have been talking about. Guess he left it in the land where Day's slider and Masset's fastball went.

[daa84]

As of right now, Floyd is a blowhard. However, 120 innings is not enough to make an assessment to banish a pitcher to AAAA status no matter how pissed we were last night. Floyd needs to throw his 93-94 mph 4 seamer more and get a little more giddy-up on the 2 seamer. On the 4 seamer, if he throws it more it will probably creep back to topping out at 96. I wonder if he is just learning the 2 seamer, because his velocity on it is so inconsistent. at times it was 86-88, other times it was 90-92, and if he is just learning it, then why did he rely on it so much last night against the best hitting team. He HAS to throw the curveball for strikes. I'd probably describe it as a 12-6 nightmare. If Floyd can find the control on his curve, and get consistent velocity on the 2 seamer, then he has a shot, and watch out AL.

i was actually impressed with the fact that floyd seemed to be able to add and subtract on his fastball....the problem is he basically became a one pitch pitcher after he plunked sheff with the curve...he was tentative to throw it ....but later on in the 4th he started gaining control of it and threw a beauty to strike sheff out and to back door one of their lefties, can't recall who...

that said he threw a few hangers too that got hit very hard...he also needs to find some rhythm on the mound...stuff wise i actually thought he is very similar to vazquez, with a lesser changeup, similar slider, and slightly better curve when he can command it....one thing i would be worried about is that his delivery looks so awkward and unnatural that it seems like its something that is not easily repeatable, leaving him susceptible to frequent problems with mechanics

[elrockinMT]

I am less than impressed. If he was trying to show the club why he should be the fifth starter I think he failed.

[fathom]

i was actually impressed with the fact that floyd seemed to be able to add and subtract on his fastball....the problem is he basically became a one pitch pitcher after he plunked sheff with the curve...he was tentative to throw it ....but later on in the 4th he started gaining control of it and threw a beauty to strike sheff out and to back door one of their lefties, can't recall who...

that said he threw a few hangers too that got hit very hard...he also needs to find some rhythm on the mound...stuff wise i actually thought he is very similar to vazquez, with a lesser changeup, similar slider, and slightly better curve when he can command it....one thing i would be worried about is that his delivery looks so awkward and unnatural that it seems like its something that is not easily repeatable, leaving him susceptible to frequent problems with mechanics

 

I don't think he meant to add and subtract. He just is so inconsistent with his pitches, and everything is up in the zone. His changeup is absolutely putrid.

[klaus kinski]

Just a thought, but has Toby Hall called both his starts?

[Gregory Pratt]

Hall is bad, but he isn't to blame for Floyd.

[infohawk]

A few thoughts on Floyd. His past outings have frustrated me in that he seems like he wants to pick at the corners and subsequently falls behind the hitters and issues walks -- not good. I didn't get to see the game last night, but was somewhat suprised when I saw that he had struck out five without issuing any walks. The problems were a high pitch count early in the game and the alarming number of hits he gave up. Also, only five of the runs were earned, still high, but it's not too far removed from what you might expect from a bottom of the rotation guy.

 

That said, the pitch count was definitely a problem. I'm less concerned about the 11 hits because most of them were singles if the gamecast analysis (viewed after the game) can be trusted. Sometimes hits are just a function of bad luck for the pitcher -- balls finding holes and whatnot. Doubles and triples -- balls hit into gaps or smoked -- are another matter. Like I said, though, I didn't actually see the game.

 

Look, I think we are going to need to readjust our expectations on Floyd's ceiling. I think that he could become a reliable fourth or fifth starter in time. While once a prospect expected to do far more than that, don't discount the value a decent back-of-the-rotation starter can give a team. All that said, he could need a couple more years to become consistently reliable, even at the back of the rotation.

Edited July 25, 2007 by infohawk

[Balta1701]

A few thoughts on Floyd. His past outings have frustrated me in that he seems like he wants to pick at the corners and subsequently falls behind the hitters and issues walks -- not good. I didn't get to see the game last night, but was somewhat suprised when I saw that he had struck out five without issuing any walks. The problems were a high pitch count early in the game and the alarming number of hits he gave up. Also, only five of the runs were earned, still high, but it's not too far removed from what you might expect from a bottom of the rotation guy.

But here's the other side of the token...you can say this exact same thing about almost every pitcher who comes up from the minor leagues! It takes most guys some time to learn that they don't have to make the perfect pitch with every throw, and to build some confidence that they can get people out by simply throwing strikes and having good stuff. There are very few pitchers who can come up and have instant success without going through some portion of a learning curve.

[BigSqwert]

I think that he could become a reliable fourth or fifth starter in time.

Seems like an oxymoron. A fourth or fifth starter is not very reliable, hence why they are slotted in the back of the rotation.

Edited July 25, 2007 by BigSqwert

[Jack Parkman]

I don't think he meant to add and subtract. He just is so inconsistent with his pitches, and everything is up in the zone. His changeup is absolutely putrid.

The inconsistency and the fact that he leaves everything up in the zone is troubling. If he could get the high 80s 2 seamer down, then I could see it being okay at that velocity, but a high 88 mph fastball is going to get, as Hawk would say, "Kilt." I disagree half way about the changeup. The movement of the changeup itself is good, his control of the changeup sucks horribly. If he could keep it down, then it would be good. And, yes I realize velocity isn't everything, but with Floyd's control it would make him a better pitcher if his velocity is up a little more.

[RockRaines]

Here's my impression of Floyd:

 

 

He makes usually 2-3 good pitches per at bat. He then throws an absolute cookie over the plate. If the hitter is patient enough he gets a good pitch to hit. If they arent patient, Gavin strikes them out.

[Balta1701]

Here's my impression of Floyd:

He makes usually 2-3 good pitches per at bat. He then throws an absolute cookie over the plate. If the hitter is patient enough he gets a good pitch to hit. If they arent patient, Gavin strikes them out.

In other words, give him a little bit of time to adapt to the league to the point where he's better at not throwing that cookie, and he could be really tough.

[fathom]

A few thoughts on Floyd. His past outings have frustrated me in that he seems like he wants to pick at the corners and subsequently falls behind the hitters and issues walks -- not good. I didn't get to see the game last night, but was somewhat suprised when I saw that he had struck out five without issuing any walks. The problems were a high pitch count early in the game and the alarming number of hits he gave up. Also, only five of the runs were earned, still high, but it's not too far removed from what you might expect from a bottom of the rotation guy.

 

That said, the pitch count was definitely a problem. I'm less concerned about the 11 hits because most of them were singles if the gamecast analysis (viewed after the game) can be trusted. Sometimes hits are just a function of bad luck for the pitcher -- balls finding holes and whatnot. Doubles and triples -- balls hit into gaps or smoked -- are another matter. Like I said, though, I didn't actually see the game.

 

They were hitting absolute rockets off of Floyd last night. His fastball looked like a pitching machine on the mound. Floyd could have easily given up 10 runs last night. He got a better feel for his hook at the game went on, but he lost his velocity very quickly. I don't see him as anything more than a righty bullpen guy.

[RockRaines]

In other words, give him a little bit of time to adapt to the league to the point where he's better at not throwing that cookie, and he could be really tough.

possibly, or he could be a bullpen guy. He has the makings of Jason Grilli.

[Dick Allen]

I really don't understand where people are coming from saying this guy needs a chance. How many guys give up 92 runs in 90 innings and still get any chance whatsoever? He was batting practice last night, except for a couple of strikeouts. Sean Casey almost took him deep. The observation about him pitching pretty well then getting hammered on one pitch if the batters are patient is a good one. Its probably why he does well in the minors because the hitters there aren't as patient. Learning not to groove one isn't exactly the smallest task. Its what every pitcher, even Johann Santana struggle with every time they pitch.

[Yossarian]

If Gavin Floyd ever amounts to anything, I'll be more than a little surprised. Anybody who sees otherwise is engaging in the most rose colored wishful thinking. He's just not any good, and worse than that, he's so timid on the mound. A headcase with no talent. I really expect big things from this guy. Yeah right. Unfortunately for us, KW loves the guy, so don't expect the Sox to pull the plug on this stiff anytime soon.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Yossarian

[jackie hayes]

The season's shot. Given that he's out of options next year, let's give him the ball and see what happens. I don't even care what happens with Contreras or the other starters. Go to 6-man rotation, dl Contreras, whatever. Give him his starts and let's see if those AAA improvements meant anything so we know what needs to be done going forward.

[Dick Allen]

It would be ridiculous to keep sending him out there if he continued to pitch like he has in his 2 starts. If they want to give him a couple more starts, fine, but if there's no improvement, blowing out your bullpen and basically forfeiting games is not the answer. I don't know what good getting his brains beat in will do him anyway. In 26 games, 21 starts the OPS against him is .940. Frank Thomas has had an OPS that high in only 3 of the past 10 years. Paul Konerko has never had an OPS that high. This year its over 1.200.

Edited July 25, 2007 by Dick Allen

[jackie hayes]

It would be ridiculous to keep sending him out there if he continued to pitch like he has in his 2 starts. If they want to give him a couple more starts, fine, but if there's no improvement, blowing out your bullpen and basically forfeiting games is not the answer. I don't know what good getting his brains beat in will do him anyway. In 26 games, 21 starts the OPS against him is .940. Frank Thomas has had an OPS that high in only 3 of the past 10 years. Paul Konerko has never had an OPS that high. This year its over 1.200.

Is Contreras "the answer"?

 

We get it, you're sure he's terrible. I don't have much hope for him, I never have. But consider that he's sucked, not just in the majors, but even in the minors for the last few years. He SEEMS to have worked that out over the last couple months. Maybe (maybe!!!) that means that he's worked through his problems and is ready to go. It could also mean he's just a AAAA pitcher, or it could have been a fluke (the most likely possibility imvho). I think the first possibility is very unlikely, but I'm not willing to rule it out. And what's the harm? A couple extra losses in a blown season? Extending some bullpen arms who'll be released, anyway? Let's really see what we have and go from there.

[witesoxfan]

It would be ridiculous to keep sending him out there if he continued to pitch like he has in his 2 starts.

 

Which is why you put him out there and see if he does keep blowing up.

 

And if he averages 5 innings a start - which he's done in his two starts this year - he's not going to burn up a bullpen that's going to feature probably 4 more guys by the end of the year. If anything, he's going to help the club in that regard because more guys are going to see action out of the pen and the players themselves will decide who sinks and who swims.

[Dick Allen]

Is Contreras "the answer"?

 

We get it, you're sure he's terrible. I don't have much hope for him, I never have. But consider that he's sucked, not just in the majors, but even in the minors for the last few years. He SEEMS to have worked that out over the last couple months. Maybe (maybe!!!) that means that he's worked through his problems and is ready to go. It could also mean he's just a AAAA pitcher, or it could have been a fluke (the most likely possibility imvho). I think the first possibility is very unlikely, but I'm not willing to rule it out. And what's the harm? A couple extra losses in a blown season? Extending some bullpen arms who'll be released, anyway? Let's really see what we have and go from there.

He was dominant in the minors up until he hit the majors. His first major league start he went 7 innings and only allowed 1 run. It was on the board last night. Maybe I am a little overboard with him, but I actually paid money to sit through his 2 starts this season, and I feel violated. Like I said, throw him out there again, but if the trend continues a couple more times, you have to pull the plug. It will be doing no one any good to keep it going. Then see where he's at in the spring and see if he can make the team's bullpen.

[hitlesswonder]

He was dominant in the minors up until he hit the majors.

 

We have different definitions of dominant. He had a 4.99 ERA in AAA in 2004 before being a Sept. call up. Throughout the minors, he K'd 7 per 9 which is OK -- not dominant, and he had a BB/9 of around 3. His latest stint in AAA is the first time he's racked up "dominant" numbers at AAA.

 

I agree -- he almost surely won't pan out. But the Sox have nothing to lose by seeing what he has in more than a couple games. Maybe he can turn into a reliever, at least.