Petition for Joe Jackson

[PAUL KONERKO 14]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/unbanjoe/index.html

 

PLEASE SIGN

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/unbanjoe/index.html

 

PLEASE SIGN

Normally I am all for this type of thing and I am currently a part of several Un-ban Joe Jackson organizations, but I question the legitimacy of this organization. What is this ipetition group?

[ChiSox9]

Normally I am all for this type of thing and I am currently a part of several Un-ban Joe Jackson organizations, but I question the legitimacy of this organization. What is this ipetition group?

 

Considering they asked me for a donation after I filled out the information I have to pass. You could have my name but I have never in my life had to pay for my opinion to count.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Considering they asked me for a donation after I filled out the information I have to pass. You could have my name but I have never in my life had to pay for my opinion to count.

 

That was my thinking. Giving money smells of scam.

[Yossarian]

I'm not signing. He's guilty, and it's time some quit looking at these guys as anything but what they were. They set Sox baseball back 3 decades. The only one of that bunch of 8 who has my sympathy is Buck Weaver.

[briguy27]

I'm not signing. He's guilty, and it's time some quit looking at these guys as anything but what they were. They set Sox baseball back 3 decades. The only one of that bunch of 8 who has my sympathy is Buck Weaver.

We will never know who was guilty or not. I signed, but I'm not paying.

[Yossarian]

We will never know who was guilty or not. I signed, but I'm not paying.

It's a little tedious to do the research, but the facts are out there. Charles Comiskey wasn't any better or any worse than many of his contemporaries. At least 7 players deliberately went into the tank, including Joe Jackson. There's no gunman on the grassy knoll here. People want to make the players martyrs. They weren't. They almost ruined a franchise that was on the verge of becoming a dynasty. Years later, Ray Schalk, who wasn't in on the fix said that if not for the Black Sox, there would have been no Yankee dynasty. I think he was right.

 

[Linnwood]

They almost ruined a franchise that was on the verge of becoming a dynasty. Years later, Ray Schalk, who wasn't in on the fix said that if not for the Black Sox, there would have been no Yankee dynasty. I think he was right.

 

 

Can you expand on this or point me toward some good sources to find out more. Nearly everything I've hear or read about the Black Sox was about the scandal itself.

[Controlled Chaos]

Can you expand on this or point me toward some good sources to find out more. Nearly everything I've hear or read about the Black Sox was about the scandal itself.

Here's a site, but it's actually for the reinstatement of Shoeless.

 

http://www.blackbetsy.com

[Yossarian]

Can you expand on this or point me toward some good sources to find out more. Nearly everything I've hear or read about the Black Sox was about the scandal itself.

It's a long complicated, multi-layered story. Most of the stuff out there is sympathetic to the players and demonizes owner Charles Comiskey. The Book Eight Men Out by Elliot Asinof, and the Nelson Algren short story The Swede Was a Hard Guy, are two examples of this. Although I believe the players (7 of them anyway) are guilty, I still recommend you read these two works, they're full of historical information. For a dose of reality try Joe's Grand Jury testimony.

 

Joe's testimony

[Linnwood]

It's a long complicated, multi-layered story. Most of the stuff out there is sympathetic to the players and demonizes owner Charles Comiskey.

 

Yeah, I guess that is what I am asking for... Most of the stuff I've seen basically is anti-Comiskey and I am just wondering if there are two sides to that coin.

[BearSox]

I'm not signing. He's guilty, and it's time some quit looking at these guys as anything but what they were. They set Sox baseball back 3 decades. The only one of that bunch of 8 who has my sympathy is Buck Weaver.

While he is guilty of having taken the money, he didn't throw any games as he put up monster numbers during the series, the best of anyone playing in it that season.

[Baines3]

As much as I think Shoeless Joe should be in the HOF. I'm not signing this one as I'm skeptical of that site.

[The Ginger Kid]

It's a long complicated, multi-layered story. Most of the stuff out there is sympathetic to the players and demonizes owner Charles Comiskey. The Book Eight Men Out by Elliot Asinof, and the Nelson Algren short story The Swede Was a Hard Guy, are two examples of this. Although I believe the players (7 of them anyway) are guilty, I still recommend you read these two works, they're full of historical information. For a dose of reality try Joe's Grand Jury testimony.

 

Joe's testimony

The Algren poem is one of my favorites.

 

And just for the record, what they did was not against the law nor were they in violation of their contracts by accepting money to play at less than their full potential. Not defending what they did, just pointing it out.

 

If anyone should be exonerated, it's the ginger kid, Buck Weaver.

[rangercal]

wow thats a nice little scam site

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Look for books/writings by Gene Carneyon this subject. He is one of, if not the most, prominent authority on this subject. I did a bunch of research for a senior thesis two years ago in college on this subject and how it tied into the changing times in the U.S. from the 1910's into the 1920's. I used a bunch of stuff written by him and also went to the HoF itself to use its archives to do research in their library (which is very cool, by the way). Although not an innocent figure, i'm not so sure how involved Jackson was in this. There are a lot of holes in many arguments from a bunch of untrustwhrothy sources (including Arnold Rothstein). I cant get into it much now w/o my paper and being at work, but if interested in this subject you definitely have to look at works by Gene Carney.

[Yossarian]

If anyone should be exonerated, it's the ginger kid, Buck Weaver.

He just wouldn't, and couldn't rat on his teammates. Buck Weaver truly got a raw deal. He wanted to separate himself from the other seven in court and have his case taken individually. Some deserving people are caught up in tragic circumstances. Buck Weaver is one of those.

[The Ginger Kid]

Look for books/writings by Gene Carneyon this subject. He is one of, if not the most, prominent authority on this subject. I did a bunch of research for a senior thesis two years ago in college on this subject and how it tied into the changing times in the U.S. from the 1910's into the 1920's. I used a bunch of stuff written by him and also went to the HoF itself to use its archives to do research in their library (which is very cool, by the way). Although not an innocent figure, i'm not so sure how involved Jackson was in this. There are a lot of holes in many arguments from a bunch of untrustwhrothy sources (including Arnold Rothstein). I cant get into it much now w/o my paper and being at work, but if interested in this subject you definitely have to look at works by Gene Carney.

 

thanks for the tip. I'm always fascinated by this subject, especially how it relates to the Sox. I never realized how popular the team was nationally at that time and especially in Chicago. Someone once wrote about the historical turn of events that occurred over those two years - the Yankees buying Ruth, the Sox throwing the series, losing 8 players, the Yankees rise to prominence and the Sox fall from grace. What might have been...

 

Buck Weaver lived out of his life on the south side. I think he died walking down 35th.

[supernuke]

Look for books/writings by Gene Carneyon this subject. He is one of, if not the most, prominent authority on this subject. I did a bunch of research for a senior thesis two years ago in college on this subject and how it tied into the changing times in the U.S. from the 1910's into the 1920's. I used a bunch of stuff written by him and also went to the HoF itself to use its archives to do research in their library (which is very cool, by the way). Although not an innocent figure, i'm not so sure how involved Jackson was in this. There are a lot of holes in many arguments from a bunch of untrustwhrothy sources (including Arnold Rothstein). I cant get into it much now w/o my paper and being at work, but if interested in this subject you definitely have to look at works by Gene Carney.

 

 

I just recently finnished his book Burying the Black Sox. I thought it was more informative than 8 men out. I would also recomend Say it ain't so Joe by Doanald Gropman, the biography is a little dry but there is some good info in there. Red Legs and Black Sox was also a good read, it has a perspective of the scandal from the Reds side.

[Kid Gleason]

If this is a scam link than maybe the link should be removed before too many people click on it?

[The Ginger Kid]

I just recently finnished his book Burying the Black Sox. I thought it was more informative than 8 men out. I would also recomend Say it ain't so Joe by Doanald Gropman, the biography is a little dry but there is some good info in there. Red Legs and Black Sox was also a good read, it has a perspective of the scandal from the Reds side.

just ordered the book from Amazon - thanks

[Yossarian]

Buck Weaver lived out of his life on the south side. I think he died walking down 35th.

IIRC correctly it was on 79th. Weaver lived in an apartment near 79th and Winchester.

[Kalapse]

If this is a scam link than maybe the link should be removed before too many people click on it?

It's not a scam. People who don't read are easily confused by it but it's not a scam. You can easily sign the petition without giving money, just give your name, an email and submit then when the donate page comes up just hit the back button and view the signatures, yours will be there. After you submit your name and see the donate page it says at the top that your signature has been accepted. No where does it say that you must give money for your name to show up.

[Balance]

No you can't get what you waaaaaaaant.....

'Til you know what you waaaaaaaaant......

 

Oh wait, wrong guy.

[Mplssoxfan]

While he is guilty of having taken the money, he didn't throw any games as he put up monster numbers during the series, the best of anyone playing in it that season.

 

He took money for the express purpose of throwing the World Series. That in and of itself condemns him, in my book. His stats were good (.375BA,.957 OPS), but reading up on guys who threw games at the time there was a lot of padding of stats when things didn't matter, like bearing down when well behind or well ahead.

 

One telling thing that you don't hear much about is that in an eight game series, the Reds had three triples on balls hit to left field, that is, to Jackson. How many triples have you seen come from balls hit to left this season? I don't think I've seen two. And this was a guy who is considered a good defender, after all, "his glove is where triples go to die".

 

It's tough to admit it, but Joe sold out the Sox.