Contreras's Contract Extension

[shoota]

On April 1, 2006, KW gave Jose Contreras a 3-year extension covering the 2007-10 seasons.

 

I understand Contreras pitched exceptional through the 2005 Championship season, but why would KW be motivated to keep him under contract for the following FOUR years? With his age, and JR's unwillingness to approve long-term contracts, why did KW give a three year extension instead of two?

 

It's obviously backfiring on the Sox today, with an ineffective, injured, aged Contreras signed for two more seasons after this one. Horrible move KW.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press...sp&c_id=cws

[vandy125]

On April 1, 2006, KW gave Jose Contreras a 3-year extension covering the 2007-10 seasons.

 

I understand Contreras pitched exceptional through the 2005 Championship season, but why would KW be motivated to keep him under contract for the following FOUR years? With his age, and JR's unwillingness to approve long-term contracts, why did KW give a three year extension instead of two?

 

It's obviously backfiring on the Sox today, with an ineffective, injured, aged Contreras signed for two more seasons after this one. Horrible move KW.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press...sp&c_id=cws

You sure know how to enjoy a win.

[Felix]

It'd be pretty fun to read the Contreras contract extension thread here again (oh, and here it is for the curious/bored)

 

 

But yea, there's no point in worrying about this now. It's already been done, and the team's stuck with it. Why bring it up?

Edited July 26, 2007 by Felix

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

I have wonder if they proved Jose lied about about his age, they could void the rest of the contract.

[shoota]

It'd be pretty fun to read the Contreras contract extension thread here again

But yea, there's no point in worrying about this now. It's already been done, and the team's stuck with it. Why bring it up?

 

Because it has the potential to negatively affect the Sox for the next two seasons?

[Felix]

Because it has the potential to negatively affect the Sox for the next two seasons?

Yea, and this isn't really new news. I mean, I guess what I'm really wondering is, why worry about something that is already known by the majority of Sox fans when you could be celebrating a win against a division rival? It just seems like silly timing to bring something like this up.

 

I had the link ready to go for this thread, ha.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. When it happened, 90% of the board loved it, including myself. It was a risk that backfired.

I'm proud to say I never liked it, but that doesn't really matter

Edited July 26, 2007 by Felix

[29andPoplar]

What I believe will happen is this, if he's not traded by Tuesday then he'll make the start at Yankee Stadium (which I will be attending in person due to an alumni event) as scheduled, and soon thereafter he will see some DL time, for the purpose of 1. giving him a breather 2. letting him fix some mechanical issues 3. give Gavin Floyd his starts for a while.

 

Personally I sense his back and legs are giving him problems. He's not driving down on the follow through.

[Balta1701]

A team can still win with a bad contract. The Sox were paying Frank Thomas a good $10 mil in 05, and he only played like 3 weeks for us. 1 bad contract does not a team ruin. It's everything else around it that is the cause for concern.

[vandy125]

Yea, and this isn't really new news. I mean, I guess what I'm really wondering is, why worry about something that is already known by the majority of Sox fans when you could be celebrating a win against a division rival? It just seems like silly timing to bring something like this up.

I'm proud to say I never liked it, but that doesn't really matter

^^^^^Really good win today. Why throw this out there right at the time of the win? Look at the times on the thread creations. One person was posting the winners thread...and we have this one rehashing things we already know about.

[BearSox]

well, I didn't really care for the contract when it first happened, I could have gone either way to be honest. My dad however knew it was a horrible deal since it should have been obvious Jose wasn't 32 or whatever he said he was back then.

[fathom]

I didn't mind the extension, as I would have never thought his stuff would deteriorate this much. Of course, I wanted the Sox to trade him for Adam Dunn after the WS season.

[shoota]

^^^^^Really good win today. Why throw this out there right at the time of the win? Look at the times on the thread creations. One person was posting the winners thread...and we have this one rehashing things we already know about.

 

I didn't even watch the game today. I'm at the point anyway where I feel little difference between Sox wins and losses. I'm already looking at 2008.

[29andPoplar]

Lots of guys his age still pitch quite well. Contreras kind of gave away the age thing in an interview a couple of years ago when he mentioned how many years he lived in Cuba. The math then concluded he is two years older, born Nov. 1969 vs. Nov. 1971.

 

He is extremely well conditioned. Perhaps too much. The staff has spoken about getting him to back off on all the pregame rituals and all the between start conditioning. It is grueling what he does, most people half his age couldn't do it. If you ever meet the guy he is solid like a mountain.

 

Velocity drops aren't necessarily arm problems. He has had nagging back and leg issues and a change in his conditioning routine may very well help him. I suspect if the Sox conclude that's what's going on, they will be more insistent he backs it off a bit. Something has to give, what he's throwing up there now isn't working.

[EvilMonkey]

I had the link ready to go for this thread, ha.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. When it happened, 90% of the board loved it, including myself. It was a risk that backfired.

You sure? I seem to remember alot of people wondering about the 4 year part. Sure, everyone was happy he would be back, but i remember alot of complaints about the length of the contract.

[southsideirish71]

On April 1, 2006, KW gave Jose Contreras a 3-year extension covering the 2007-10 seasons.

 

I understand Contreras pitched exceptional through the 2005 Championship season, but why would KW be motivated to keep him under contract for the following FOUR years? With his age, and JR's unwillingness to approve long-term contracts, why did KW give a three year extension instead of two?

 

It's obviously backfiring on the Sox today, with an ineffective, injured, aged Contreras signed for two more seasons after this one. Horrible move KW.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press...sp&c_id=cws

 

Anyone that says that this is a horrible deal is not giving context to when this happened. Contreras was our ace, he was the guy who started every playoff series. In the 2nd half of that year, through his DL stint the following year he was one of the most dominant pitchers in the game. In his starts right before he went on the DL, he had some of his most dominant performances, including bnack to back double digit strikeout performances where his fastball was 97. 17 game consecutive win streak. If we had traded him, you and a bunch of people would of been up in arms over it. You are talking about a pitcher, that KW coveted, that was his ace. This was a good move at the time.

 

Now I dont know if he is hurt(if it is, I dont think its a shoulder or arm more likely his back). He can every so often explode to 94. Guys with shoulder, elbow issues have a drop of velocity and they dont have it come back. When Jose goes over the top, he gets better velocity and better life to his pitches. When he drops down, his ball sails, and his velocity and command go south. I personally think, its a few things going on. Not just one. Now am I concerned that he will be an expensive pitcher, without the results sure. Do I want him traded now. Sure. But I dont know too many people who were Johnny on the spot after the 05 season and wanted him gone.

Edited July 26, 2007 by southsideirish71

[WCSox]

Anyone that says that this is a horrible deal is not giving context to when this happened. Contreras was our ace, he was the guy who started every playoff series. In the 2nd half of that year, through his DL stint the following year he was one of the most dominant pitchers in the game. In his starts right before he went on the DL, he had some of his most dominant performances, including bnack to back double digit strikeout performances where his fastball was 97. 17 game consecutive win streak. If we had traded him, you and a bunch of people would of been up in arms over it. You are talking about a pitcher, that KW coveted, that was his ace. This was a good move at the time.

 

I agree.

 

Now I dont know if he is hurt(if it is, I dont think its a shoulder or arm more likely his back). He can every so often explode to 94. Guys with shoulder, elbow issues have a drop of velocity and they dont have it come back. When Jose goes over the top, he gets better velocity and better life to his pitches. When he drops down, his ball sails, and his velocity and command go south.

 

IMO, command is Jose's major problem right now. Sure, it'd be nice for him to throw 94-96 consistently again, but he can easily get away with 90 and well-located forkballs and changeups. And unlike velocity, command can be improved. I'm not expecting much from him from here on out and wouldn't mind seeing him dealt. But I don't think that we're absolutely screwed if he's our #5 pitcher for the next two seasons.

Edited July 26, 2007 by WCSox

[shoota]

Anyone that says that this is a horrible deal is not giving context to when this happened. Contreras was our ace, he was the guy who started every playoff series. In the 2nd half of that year, through his DL stint the following year he was one of the most dominant pitchers in the game. In his starts right before he went on the DL, he had some of his most dominant performances, including bnack to back double digit strikeout performances where his fastball was 97. 17 game consecutive win streak. If we had traded him, you and a bunch of people would of been up in arms over it. You are talking about a pitcher, that KW coveted, that was his ace. This was a good move at the time.

 

No one suggested he should have been traded.

 

Now I dont know if he is hurt(if it is, I dont think its a shoulder or arm more likely his back). He can every so often explode to 94. Guys with shoulder, elbow issues have a drop of velocity and they dont have it come back. When Jose goes over the top, he gets better velocity and better life to his pitches. When he drops down, his ball sails, and his velocity and command go south. I personally think, its a few things going on. Not just one. Now am I concerned that he will be an expensive pitcher, without the results sure. Do I want him traded now. Sure. But I dont know too many people who were Johnny on the spot after the 05 season and wanted him gone.

 

You're making this an either/or situation. There were more choices other than trading Contreras or signing him through 2009. I'm not questioning KW for retaining Contreras after the 2005 season, I'm questioning why he had to keep him under contract for the following four years.

 

 

[29andPoplar]

I'm questioning why he had to keep him under contract for the following four years.

 

I suspect you may not like the answer but here it is, first of all he was signed through 2006. Williams and Hahn wanted to lock up their starting staff to manageable contracts because the financial cost of starting pitching was (still is?) spiraling, going up big time.

 

Further it was my impression at the time that his agent would not have accepted a two year extension. Everyone else was getting 3 years. I'm sure there are some what if's and why's in there but these were the basic reasons behind it.

[SoxFan77]

I didn't even watch the game today. I'm at the point anyway where I feel little difference between Sox wins and losses. I'm already looking at 2008.

 

So Should our GM.. sadly this weeks series just killed our chances for 08.

[29andPoplar]

sadly this weeks series just killed our chances for 08.

 

why is that

[SoxFan77]

why is that

 

KW is stupid enough to believe that we still have a shot.. Not make moves that help us going forward. He will again look for quick fixes so we can finish .500.

 

Also I don't see us competing until 09/10 time and that is if KW starts now in the trading process and rebuilds this team.. if he can.

[fathom]

KW is stupid enough to believe that we still have a shot.. Not make moves that help us going forward. He will again look for quick fixes so we can finish .500.

 

Also I don't see us competing until 09/10 time and that is if KW starts now in the trading process and rebuilds this team.. if he can.

 

KW doesn't think we have a shot.....he was trying to unload guys two months ago.

[shoota]

I suspect you may not like the answer but here it is, first of all he was signed through 2006. Williams and Hahn wanted to lock up their starting staff to manageable contracts because the financial cost of starting pitching was (still is?) spiraling, going up big time.

 

I'm aware Contreras was signed through 2006.

 

Whatever KW's thinking or rational for signing Contreras is irrelevant to me since that reasoning has been proven wrong.

 

I'm not concerned with how KW came to the conclusion that it'd be wise to lock up Contreras for the next four years, just that he did.

 

Further it was my impression at the time that his agent would not have accepted a two year extension. Everyone else was getting 3 years. I'm sure there are some what if's and why's in there but these were the basic reasons behind it.

 

It's impossible for us to say whether Contreras would have accepted an extension through just 2008, but assuming he wouldn't, KW is still at fault for locking him up for the next four years.

 

Had KW let Contreras pitch out his contract through 2006, the Sox would not currently be stuck with Contreras this year or for the next two.

Edited July 26, 2007 by shoota

[29andPoplar]

KW is stupid enough to believe that we still have a shot.. Not make moves that help us going forward. He will again look for quick fixes so we can finish .500.

 

Also I don't see us competing until 09/10 time and that is if KW starts now in the trading process and rebuilds this team.. if he can.

 

Totally disagree, they know they're gassed for this year.

 

He has said any moves he makes will be for players who will help in the immediate future. They keep reiterating they want to field a team to compete and we have seen no moves that counter what they've said.

 

Baseball teams fluctuate year to year, there is no reason to write off 2008 yet. Too many things can happen.

[29andPoplar]

Whatever KW's thinking or rational for signing Contreras is irrelevant to me since that reasoning failed.

 

I'm not concerned with how KW came to the conclusion that it'd be wise to lock up Contreras for the next four years, just that he did.

 

Had KW let Contreras pitch out his contract through 2006, the Sox would not currently be stuck with Contreras this year or for the next two.

 

What is Contreras bounces back and pitches effectively for this or maybe another team. You have written his career off, you may be right but you may also be very wrong.