Contreras's Contract Extension

[shoota]

What is Contreras bounces back and pitches effectively for this or maybe another team. You have written his career off, you may be right but you may also be very wrong.

 

Since results are the best indicator, if Contreras pitches well in 2008 and 2009, KW's signing looks good.

 

As of now, horrible.

[29andPoplar]

I'm not concerned with how KW came to the conclusion that it'd be wise to lock up Contreras for the next four years, just that he did.

 

You just asked earlier in the thread why he had to keep him under contract with an extension, your thread title asks the same "why", that's why I answered as I did. Those were the reasons.

[Rowand44]

I'm very happy. Jose is the guy I wanted to keep around for a while, he's going to be one of the best pitchers in the al for at least a few more years.

^^^ Moron.

[SoxFan77]

KW doesn't think we have a shot.....he was trying to unload guys two months ago.

 

I don't see how we have not unloaded anyone as trying. Look we are not going to be able to rape other teams for Jose, Jon, Dye, Uribe.. He just have to accept that fact.

[shoota]

You just asked earlier in the thread why he had to keep him under contract with an extension, your thread title asks the same "why", that's why I answered as I did. Those were the reasons.

 

That is true.

[SoxFan77]

Totally disagree, they know they're gassed for this year.

 

He has said any moves he makes will be for players who will help in the immediate future. They keep reiterating they want to field a team to compete and we have seen no moves that counter what they've said.

 

Baseball teams fluctuate year to year, there is no reason to write off 2008 yet. Too many things can happen.

 

No Farm system, 4 holes to fill in the field.. maybe 5 and a team that already is at 100mil.. I can't see how 2008 is going to be any different than 2007..

[vandy125]

I don't see how we have not unloaded anyone as trying. Look we are not going to be able to rape other teams for Jose, Jon, Dye, Uribe.. He just have to accept that fact.

So...should we be the one's sticking our arses out there instead?

[29andPoplar]

No Farm system, 4 holes to fill in the field.. maybe 5 and a team that already is at 100mil.. I can't see how 2008 is going to be any different than 2007..

 

You could very well be correct. For me I have seen too many interesting things happen in baseball, on the field and from the player acquisition side. I have also seen too many players performances go up/down from one year to the next. That is why I tend to take a wait and see what happens approach, neither condemning too soon or praising too soon.

 

One thing I am glad about is the front office saying they want to put a team on the field to compete for a championship. Whether that works out or not who knows. They have work to do, lots of it. But this org. is not afraid to make moves so I will wait and see what they do.

Edited July 26, 2007 by 29andPoplar

[WCSox]

No Farm system, 4 holes to fill in the field.. maybe 5 and a team that already is at 100mil.. I can't see how 2008 is going to be any different than 2007..

 

I'll bet that a lot of people couldn't see how 2000 would be any different than 1999... or how 1990 would be any different than 1989. No doubt that the Sox have an uphill battle, but you never know what's going to happen.

 

At the very least, this team is going to shed over $50 million in veteran salary over the next year and a half. Even with Jose still on the books in '09, they're still going to have some financial flexibility.

 

[Kyyle23]

I'll bet that a lot of people couldn't see how 2000 would be any different than 1999... or how 1990 would be any different than 1989. No doubt that the Sox have an uphill battle, but you never know what's going to happen.

 

At the very least, this team is going to shed over $50 million in veteran salary over the next year and a half. Even with Jose still on the books in '09, they're still going to have some financial flexibility.

 

Its much easier to say "We suck and we will suck for a long time."

 

There is no thought involved in it. Its easy

[WCSox]

Its much easier to say "We suck and we will suck for a long time."

 

There is no thought involved in it. Its easy

 

Indeed

 

[SoxFan77]

You could very well be correct. For me I have seen too many interesting things happen in baseball, on the field and from the player acquisition side. I have also seen too many players performances go up/down from one year to the next. That is why I tend to take a wait and see what happens approach, neither condemning too soon or praising too soon.

 

One thing I am glad about is the front office saying they want to put a team on the field to compete for a championship. Whether that works out or not who knows. They have work to do, lots of it. But this org. is not afraid to make moves so I will wait and see what they do.

 

I just look at the track Record of our Gm.. If you take out 05, it doesn't look good. I can't see how we fill an OF and MI with the hope that said player takes less than market value all the time. KW is a GM who attempts to fix the cracks in a leaky pipe instead of realizing we just need new plumbing system.

 

For me, I want us to rebuild, look as everyone in our division did and they have much better teams because of it. Det and Cle are now on their Runs.. Minny is going to be tough as hell next year if they can get a CF. KC is on the rise as well. and then there is us.. Things look grim and I have no faith KW will be able to put a quality team on the field that can compete.

[SoxFan77]

Its much easier to say "We suck and we will suck for a long time."

 

There is no thought involved in it. Its easy

 

It easy to face the facts of reality with this club? I wish I had the optimism that you had.. I just can't see how you can be so happy with the shape we are in.

[Kyyle23]

It easy to face the facts of reality with this club? I wish I had the optimism that you had.. I just can't see how you can be so happy with the shape we are in.

 

right, I have displayed so much optimism here. Im so happy with the shape of this club.

 

i should just throw my hands up and say "Oh man we suck and we will always suck", right?

[WCSox]

I just look at the track Record of our Gm.. If you take out 05, it doesn't look good. I can't see how we fill an OF and MI with the hope that said player takes less than market value all the time. KW is a GM who attempts to fix the cracks in a leaky pipe instead of realizing we just need new plumbing system.

 

For me, I want us to rebuild, look as everyone in our division did and they have much better teams because of it. Det and Cle are now on their Runs..

 

It's going to take a couple of 90- and 100-loss seasons for us to get the draft picks to get players like Mauer and Verlander. The Sox need to seriously improve their scouting department. Other than that, it's difficult to get a team of blue-chip young studs without sucking for a while to get those top draft picks.

 

Minny is going to be tough as hell next year if they can get a CF. KC is on the rise as well. and then there is us.. Things look grim and I have no faith KW will be able to put a quality team on the field that can compete.

 

MIN's hovering about .500 right now, their pitching is crap outside of Santana and Nathan, and they're going to lose Hunter to FA. CLE has a top-heavy rotation and not much of note in their 'pen. And KC is nowhere closer than they were two years ago.

Edited July 26, 2007 by WCSox

[SoxFan77]

It's going to take a couple of 90- and 100-loss seasons for us to get the draft picks to get players like Mauer and Verlander. The Sox need to seriously improve their scouting department. Other than that, it's difficult to get a team of blue-chip young studs without sucking for a while to get those top draft picks.

 

I take 3-4 years of sucking to get us a 5-10 run at the playoffs.. over this pile of crap. At least we would be building towards something instead of just patching one hole as 3 more bust out.

MIN's hovering about .500 right now, their pitching is crap outside of Santana and Nathan, and they're going to lose Hunter to FA. CLE has a top-heavy rotation and not much of note in their 'pen. And KC is nowhere closer than they were two years ago.

 

I have more faith in the other GM's doing what is needed to win.. They have a track record of success for longer than 1 year. DET Gm build a winner in Miami, Minny is a god among GMs Cleveland looks to only improve and have Miller in the wings to step-up. KC.. your kidding yourself if you don't think KC has improved.

[quickman]

What I believe will happen is this, if he's not traded by Tuesday then he'll make the start at Yankee Stadium (which I will be attending in person due to an alumni event) as scheduled, and soon thereafter he will see some DL time, for the purpose of 1. giving him a breather 2. letting him fix some mechanical issues 3. give Gavin Floyd his starts for a while.

 

Personally I sense his back and legs are giving him problems. He's not driving down on the follow through.

 

 

actually if they cannot get rid of him he should sit immediately after the deadline and prepare for next year. We aren't going anywhere this year so there is no need to use him or his arm. as you know floyd is terrible, he will never make it despite the will of KW.

[max power]

This thread reeks of 20/20 hindsight bulls***. I'm not convinced it was a bad signing yet either. He might just need the off season or an extended break to heal up. Who really knows? Counting him out for the rest of his career would be foolish. Look at el duque.

[Kyyle23]

This thread reeks of 20/20 hindsight bulls***. I'm not convinced it was a bad signing yet either. He might just need the off season or an extended break to heal up. Who really knows? Counting him out for the rest of his career would be foolish. Look at el duque.

 

Wasnt Contreras known to be pretty much injury free before joining the Sox? I always remember Duque's durability being an well publicized issue, not so much with Contreras though. maybe I just wasnt paying attention, but until Contreras hurt his hamstring/back last year, I thought he was a very durable pitcher.

[max power]

Wasnt Contreras known to be pretty much injury free before joining the Sox? I always remember Duque's durability being an well publicized issue, not so much with Contreras though. maybe I just wasnt paying attention, but until Contreras hurt his hamstring/back last year, I thought he was a very durable pitcher.

Yeah, there are a ton of differences between el duque and Contreras, my point was that a lot of people considered his career all but over, myself included, and he has had a pretty damn good year thusfar.

Edited July 27, 2007 by max power

[WCSox]

I take 3-4 years of sucking to get us a 5-10 run at the playoffs.. over this pile of crap. At least we would be building towards something instead of just patching one hole as 3 more bust out.

 

Keep in mind that the team that Larry Himes built, from the ground-up (your way), didn't win a single playoff series. Throwing away solid major-league talent like Paulie for a package of prospects (even really, really good prospects) doesn't guarantee anything.

 

I have more faith in the other GM's doing what is needed to win.. They have a track record of success for longer than 1 year.

 

That depends on what you define as "success." Detroit has a pennant and 20+ years of misery prior to that. The 21st century Indians teams have been competitive at times, but have one whole playoff appearance and no playoff series wins. And, of course, they haven't won a championship in about 60 years. The Twins have been competitive, but haven't won anything of significance since the early '90s. Sorry, but I wouldn't want to trade places with any of those close-but-not-quite organizations.

 

KW very well may not be the right guy for the Sox from here on out. He's obviously not the top GM in the league. That said, I don't hear many Braves fans saying, "Man, I'm sure glad that we have John Schuerholz, instead of that Kenny Williams idiot." Winning the division and crapping out in the playoffs year after year gets old quickly.

 

KC.. your kidding yourself if you don't think KC has improved.

 

Oh, really? Tell me how the last-place Royals are going to step up and be contenders in the near future.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

He's obviously not the top GM in the league. That said, I don't hear many Braves fans saying, "Man, I'm sure glad that we have John Schuerholz, instead of that Kenny Williams idiot." Winning the division and crapping out in the playoffs year after year gets old quickly.

 

 

Can't blame Schuerholz for the playoffs. He's built teams plenty good enough to win in the playoffs. But hey -- I'll take fourteen division titles and 1 World Series win over what we've got here: years of mediocrity, a bad farm system, average (at best) teams in the Comedy Central and 1 World Series win as well.

 

And why would they be ridiculing Williams, who is in another league and they hardly deal with? They'd be more likely to ridicule Steve Phillips or Pat Gillick, with good reason (Kazmir: bullpen, Garcia).

[Dick Allen]

Keep in mind that the team that Larry Himes built, from the ground-up (your way), didn't win a single playoff series. Throwing away solid major-league talent like Paulie for a package of prospects (even really, really good prospects) doesn't guarantee anything.

 

That depends on what you define as "success." Detroit has a pennant and 20+ years of misery prior to that. The 21st century Indians teams have been competitive at times, but have one whole playoff appearance and no playoff series wins. And, of course, they haven't won a championship in about 60 years. The Twins have been competitive, but haven't won anything of significance since the early '90s. Sorry, but I wouldn't want to trade places with any of those close-but-not-quite organizations.

 

KW very well may not be the right guy for the Sox from here on out. He's obviously not the top GM in the league. That said, I don't hear many Braves fans saying, "Man, I'm sure glad that we have John Schuerholz, instead of that Kenny Williams idiot." Winning the division and crapping out in the playoffs year after year gets old quickly.

Oh, really? Tell me how the last-place Royals are going to step up and be contenders in the near future.

 

Himes basically built the foundation for a team that was pretty good in the early 90s. He also traded away a popular veteran for a package that helped bump the Sox to an elite team when he traded Baines for Fletcher, Alvarez and Sosa. They were better off for 4 or 5 years with that trade than if he would have left Harold as the DH. Alvarez alone helped the Sox in 1993 and 1994, and dealing him helped them win a division in 2000 with Foulke and Howry, and had an effect on the championship team as Foulke netted Cotts. Harold even came back, twice. If winning the division 13 or 14 years in a row and winning only 1 world series gets old quickly, what about winning 1 WS and 1 divison in 7 years, and have a team with a $100 million + payroll battle it out with KC and TB for the worst record in the league? JS baseball resume is far more impressive than KW's.

 

[Lemon_44]

As bad as Contreras has been, i would still rather him as a #5 starter than Floyd. I've only seen Floyd pitch twice but he seems to have nothing to get major league hitters out. The bad thing with Jose is that you don't want to be paying you fifth starter 10+million dollars. But, in reality, a starting rotation of Buehrle, Vasquez, Garland, Danks, and Contreras will be an upper echelon staff in 2008 that alot of teams would kill for. Contreras still has pretty good stuff but has absolutely zero confidence. Maybe they can get a few good starts from him in August/ September and he can get back on track. Look at the difference in Vasquez now that his confidence has returned. The same could happen with JC.

[The Ginger Kid]

I still wonder about all the crap that was going on with his family early in the season and whether that has something to do with his problems (not counting his loss of velocity!).