Contreras's Contract Extension

[hitlesswonder]

Well the extension was signed before the '06 season and he was signed through '06 with or without the extension so basically what you're saying is that you should give a player a large contract based on 20 starts? That seems crazy to me.

It was a bad deal. How bad remains to be seen. The circumstances were that KW had little starting pitching locked up beyond a year or two at that point (Garland hadn't signed an extension). And Contreras had #1 starter stuff, which is rare in general and rarer still on the South Side. Williams took a risk and he didn't get much back except a dominant half season in 2006. Good GMs sometimes sign good pitchers to bad contracts. Beane gave Loaiza a 3 year $22M deal and hasn't gotten much out of that. LAA's signing of Colon has not been great either. Conteras' deal isn't nearly as crippling as Zito's contract looks to be, not that I'm saying Sabean is a good GM. Anyway, we have yet to see how many bad innings Jose pitches in 2008 and 2009 for the Sox and how much of the contract the Sox have to eat when they finally move him.

[SoxFan77]

Gary Sheffield and Kenny Rogers are dinosaurs, with the latter coming off of shoulder surgery and pitching like crap right now. Nate Robertson was a one-year wonder and Mike Maroth was so bad that they dealt him. And Todd Jones is old AND bad. They have a solid lineup and a really nice one-two punch of Verlander and Bonderman. And Zumaya will be a solid closer if he can stay healthy. But they don't have the pitching staff that they did a year ago (sound familiar?) and they're going to be relying heavily on aging vets like Sheffield, Pudge, and Maggs to drive in runs. I agree that they're the best team in the Central right now, but I don't see that lasting for the next 2-3 years.

Man I wish we had a dinosaur that hit .298/23/67! Instead we are stuck with one DYE.. who is worse than him. And when he is getting up there they can move this player named Maggs to the DH..

 

Rodgers is getting replaced by Miller.. So they have Bonderman, Verlander and Miller.. Wasn't it you who said that all you need is a good staff and you can make the playoffs? I guess, that formula only works if its for the Sox? DET is a powerhouse for the next 2-3 years.. bank on it.

 

 

No, you won't because you're dead wrong about the Royals contending any time soon.

Yep.. I'm dead wrong.. they only made Dayton Moore their GM.. who came from the JS camp in ATL. You know the same JS who has had 14 chances to win it all.. how many has KW given us?

And Billy Beane hasn't even won a pennant, yet you'd never know that from his pretentious attitude. He makes John Hart look like a bad-ass.

 

Is that your basis for everything, a GM has to win a pennant to be considered good? If The Cubs when the Pennant this year, does that automaticly make Hendry a good GM?

 

I couldn't care less if the Sox have the best GM in the league. If it doesn't translate into a championship, it doesn't mean a thing. I care about WINNING, and couldn't care less if we do it with Hawk Harrelson as GM, Terry Bevington as manager, and the cast of Major League in our starting lineup.

 

I have no idea what in the world you mean by that.. Hawk as GM and TB as manager..

 

" And with the 1st pick in the 2029 MLB Draft for the 15 year in a row the Chicago White Sox select....."

[WCSox]

Man I wish we had a dinosaur that hit .298/23/67!

 

Yeah, and I'm sure that he'll be putting up those same numbers three years from now.

 

Rodgers is getting replaced by Miller.. So they have Bonderman, Verlander and Miller.. Wasn't it you who said that all you need is a good staff and you can make the playoffs? I guess, that formula only works if its for the Sox? DET is a powerhouse for the next 2-3 years.. bank on it.

 

You mean the same "powerhose" that just lost 3/5 to us?

 

Miller is still unproven, although he may very well continue on that path. Much of their veteran talent (Sheffield, Pudge, Inge, Maggs) are past their prime and will be declining over the next couple of years. Rogers and Jones are both done. And they'd better hope that Zumaya is able to stay healthy, because Rodney and Grilli both suck.

 

The Tigers will certainly be competitive over the next 2-3 years, but there's nothing outside of your obvious bias to suggest that they're going to be a "powerhouse." Their pitching has already declined significantly from last year.

 

Yep.. I'm dead wrong.. they only made Dayton Moore their GM.. who came from the JS camp in ATL. You know the same JS who has had 14 chances to win it all.. how many has KW given us?

 

LOL, so because Moore worked under JS, he's going to have the same success as a GM? Um, OK.

 

Come talk to me when Royals put up a .500 winning percentage (which they've done ONCE over the past 12 years). Or when more than one person in their lineup puts up an .800 OPS. Or when their prospects become good enough to knock Odalis Perez and Scott Elarton out of the rotation.

 

Is that your basis for everything, a GM has to win a pennant to be considered good? If The Cubs when the Pennant this year, does that automaticly make Hendry a good GM?

 

No, I'm saying that A's fans aren't saying, "Man, I'm sure glad that we have the self-proclaimed genius Billy Beane, instead of that big dummy Kenny Williams. Because Beane knows how to win!"

 

[SoxFan77]

Yeah, and I'm sure that he'll be putting up those same numbers three years from now.

I guess you missed the part where they (DET) is replacing him with Maggs..

And the fact that Shef is only signed till 09..

You mean the same "powerhose" that just lost 3/5 to us?

 

and also leads us by 14.5 games in the division..

Miller is still unproven, although he may very well continue on that path. Much of their veteran talent (Sheffield, Pudge, Inge, Maggs) are past their prime and will be declining over the next couple of years. Rogers and Jones are both done. And they'd better hope that Zumaya is able to stay healthy, because Rodney and Grilli both suck.

Miller is still better than what we have coming up..

Maggs is past their prime.. Man i wish we had a past a prime guy who was leading the AL in hitting..

Inge had a prime?

 

The Tigers will certainly be competitive over the next 2-3 years, but there's nothing outside of your obvious bias to suggest that they're going to be a "powerhouse." Their pitching has already declined significantly from last year.

I guess having a farm system, young talented core and proven front office.. and someone points that out.. they are bias...

LOL, so because Moore worked under JS, he's going to have the same success as a GM? Um, OK.

 

Because he also brought the farm dir and international scouting director and is setting up the same system the Braves have.. I would say yes. I have more faith in him building a winner through the farm system than KW.

Come talk to me when Royals put up a .500 winning percentage (which they've done ONCE over the past 12 years). Or when more than one person in their lineup puts up an .800 OPS. Or when their prospects become good enough to knock Odalis Perez and Scott Elarton out of the rotation.

Are you going to be around in 09?

No, I'm saying that A's fans aren't saying, "Man, I'm sure glad that we have the self-proclaimed genius Billy Beane, instead of that big dummy Kenny Williams. Because Beane knows how to win!"

 

I'm pretty sure they are saying that..Since most fans are bias of the front office.

[hitlesswonder]

Because he also brought the farm dir and international scouting director and is setting up the same system the Braves have.. I would say yes. I have more faith in him building a winner through the farm system than KW.

 

I think Moore is better GM than Williams. He's won both trades he's made with the Sox. And KC has a brighter future than the Sox. Look at the young talent base the two clubs have. The Sox have Josh Fields and ...that's it. KC has 3 young 3B better than Fields plus a bunch of other decent prospects.

 

[Balta1701]

I think Moore is better GM than Williams. He's won both trades he's made with the Sox. And KC has a brighter future than the Sox. Look at the young talent base the two clubs have. The Sox have Josh Fields and ...that's it. KC has 3 young 3B better than Fields plus a bunch of other decent prospects.

Tyler Lumsden has put up a 6.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Omaha Royals (AAA). Batters are hitting .302 against him. It's really hard for me to find a logical reason why one could say that the Royals have won that trade.

[Cerbaho-WG]

For anyone thinking that the Royals will not be occupying the cellar for the next several years at least, please mention to me one pitching prospect in their farm system outside of Hochevar who could make an impact in the next two years. Moore is going to have to either overpay once again for a free agent pitcher and hope to get lucky (Meche) or pull off some low level moves for back of the rotation starters (Bannister). They'll finish the season probably around 25 games under .500 and that's considered improvement by them.

[Cerbaho-WG]

I think Moore is better GM than Williams. He's won both trades he's made with the Sox. And KC has a brighter future than the Sox. Look at the young talent base the two clubs have. The Sox have Josh Fields and ...that's it. KC has 3 young 3B better than Fields plus a bunch of other decent prospects.

 

Start naming them.

[WCSox]

For anyone thinking that the Royals will not be occupying the cellar for the next several years at least, please mention to me one pitching prospect in their farm system outside of Hochevar who could make an impact in the next two years. Moore is going to have to either overpay once again for a free agent pitcher and hope to get lucky (Meche) or pull off some low level moves for back of the rotation starters (Bannister). They'll finish the season probably around 25 games under .500 and that's considered improvement by them.

 

The fact that Moore paid Gil Freaking Meche $55 million speaks volumes about the level of pitching talent in their farm system.

 

[SoxFan77]

The fact that Moore paid Gil Freaking Meche $55 million speaks volumes about the level of pitching talent in their farm system.

 

Don't tell me you think a farm system is a quick fix?

 

 

[WCSox]

Don't tell me you think a farm system is a quick fix?

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but my point was that Moore wouldn't have given Meche $55 million if he had anything decent coming up through his farm system in the immediate future.

 

[hitlesswonder]

Start naming them.

Gordon and Teahen are both better than Fields. Butler used to play 3B, but reading up on him now I guess his D was atrocious. So, I guess only 2 better young 3Bs than Fields. Other good KC prospects (aside from Hocheevar): Lubanski, Huber, Bianchi, Jarod Plummer, Moustakas, Runion. You're right that KC needs pitching but I have more faith in Moore's scouting and development team to produce it than I do in the Sox.

 

I wasn't saying Moore was a better GM than Williams to belittle KW -- I think he's a good GM. I just think Moore is a very good GM. At worst I'm extrapolating too much from his ATL roots and his brief track record

[hitlesswonder]

Tyler Lumsden has put up a 6.25 ERA in 19 starts for the Omaha Royals (AAA). Batters are hitting .302 against him. It's really hard for me to find a logical reason why one could say that the Royals have won that trade.

They aren't paying MacDougal for his 2007 performance. I thought it was a good trade for the Sox and maybe Mac can make it look good next season. I thought the Sisco trade was good. I thought signing Meche was silly. Right now, Moore looks quite a bit smarter than me....

[Gregory Pratt]

Yeah, Moore and his scouts did a great job on Meche. He's so handsome!

[Gregory Pratt]

PS: Let's not cite a five-game series as evidence of anything.

[WCSox]

I thought signing Meche was silly. Right now, Moore looks quite a bit smarter than me....

 

It might not look so much smart when Meche reverts to his career-average numbers next year.

 

Not that I think that KW is necessarily a better GM than Moore, but I find it odd that the guy who paid Gil Meche $55 million is being touted as the next big thing, while the guy who got Mark Buehrle for $56 million is getting raked over the coals.

Edited July 27, 2007 by WCSox

[Gregory Pratt]

There are big differences. Buehrle wanted to stay and is known as a very good pitcher. Meche has always had potential but the Royal (ex-Brave) scouts said, "Meche is good. No one else knows it. Let's get him!"

 

Meche was shrewd. Buehrle was fortunate. KW gets credit from me for Buehrle, but not much.

 

I doubt Meche goes back to being bad next year. He's a good pitcher who's finally found it in KC with Moore. As all the scouts said while the pundits laughed.

[hitlesswonder]

Not that I think that KW is necessarily a better GM than Moore, but I find it odd that the guy who paid Gil Meche $55 million is being touted as the next big thing, while the guy who got Mark Buehrle for $56 million is getting raked over the coals.

 

I don't think you're necessarily referring to me, but I tried to be clear that I'm not raking KW over the coals. That will happen next year if the starting OF is Owens-Erstad-Sweeney...

Edited July 27, 2007 by hitlesswonder

[WCSox]

There are big differences. Buehrle wanted to stay and is known as a very good pitcher. Meche has always had potential but the Royal (ex-Brave) scouts said, "Meche is good. No one else knows it. Let's get him!"

 

Meche was shrewd. Buehrle was fortunate. KW gets credit from me for Buehrle, but not much.

 

I doubt Meche goes back to being bad next year. He's a good pitcher who's finally found it in KC with Moore. As all the scouts said while the pundits laughed.

 

Meche is a 29-year-old, seven-year vet with a career 4.52 ERA. For the sake of Royals fans, I hope that you're right. But I don't think that you are.

 

[WCSox]

I don't think you're necessarily referring to me, but I tried to be clear that I'm not raking KW over the coals.

 

You're correct that I was not referring to you.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Meche is a 29-year-old, seven-year vet with a career 4.52 ERA. For the sake of Royals fans, I hope that you're right. But I don't think that you are.

 

Meche's career has always been plagued by injuries, which has been his problem and resulted in inconsistencies moreso than his talent.

[southsideirish71]

Teams have inquired about Jon Garland and Javier Vazquez, but general manager Ken Williams is asking for the moon in return. As of this week, the asking price for Jose Contreras (above) is also steep, but considering he's the best starting pitcher on the market, he can be had.

 

 

[WCSox]

Meche's career has always been plagued by injuries, which has been his problem and resulted in inconsistencies moreso than his talent.

 

All the more reason to not give him $55 million, especially when he isn't the "missing piece" to a World Series-caliber rotation.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

I don't think I'd have given him such a deal but it's turned out well so far, and I kindly defer to Moore as he rebuilds that entire organization.

[WCSox]

I don't think I'd have given him such a deal but it's turned out well so far, and I kindly defer to Moore as he rebuilds that entire organization.

 

Meche's ERA (3.76) seems awfully low for a guy with a 1.30 WHIP. And I'd say that the latter is more telling of how good a pitcher he really is. Geez, even Jose and Freddy let fewer guys on base last year.

 

I'm wondering how much KC's relatively good bullpen has been keeping that ERA down. It seems like a lot of inherited base runners aren't crossing the plate.