Harry Chappas Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 07:32 PM) Sometimes I'm just taken aback by the inflammatory, knee jerk reactions of Sox fans. It's disturbing. Just because a player was on the World Series team doesn't mean they have good trade value. Ricar should be given the opportunity to play short for the remainder of he season, this position is a larger hole than 2B. IF he hits there but doesn't field well move him to 2B for next season. Also no matter what he does this season it is only 2 months and gives no true credability to what he may do next yuear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 07:32 PM) Sometimes I'm just taken aback by the inflammatory, knee jerk reactions of Sox fans. It's disturbing. Just because a player was on the World Series team doesn't mean they have good trade value. Exactly, Carl Everett has about as much trade value as Iguchi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 08:41 PM) Ricar should be given the opportunity to play short for the remainder of he season, this position is a larger hole than 2B. IF he hits there but doesn't field well move him to 2B for next season. Also no matter what he does this season it is only 2 months and gives no true credability to what he may do next yuear. Yeah but if he can just play an average 2B for the final 2 months it will make it so much easier for KW to hand him a job next year. If he looks incredibly overmatched then there's no way he can pencil him in for a starting spot. It may not be a great indicator but it should give the organization some idea of if he's ready for the big time or not. I think the organization pretty much knows what type of defender he is at this point in time. They've had several years of scouting him in the D-Backs organization and a few months of watching him start at SS for Charlotte give them a good enough idea of his defensive prowess, that isn't going to change all of a sudden when he hits the big leagues. If they're trading away Iguchi to make room for him then I think it's fairly obvious that at least for now KW sees him as the heir-apparent at 2B and not SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Where is Richar gonna bat? 8th? Does he have #2 potential? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilCan Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 08:46 PM) Yeah but if he can just play an average 2B for the final 2 months it will make it so much easier for KW to hand him a job next year. If he looks incredibly overmatched then there's no way he can pencil him in for a starting spot. It may not be a great indicator but it should give the organization some idea of if he's ready for the big time or not. I think the organization pretty much knows what type of defender he is at this point in time. They've had several years of scouting him in the D-Backs organization and a few months of watching him start at SS for Charlotte give them a good enough idea of his defensive prowess, that isn't going to change all of a sudden when he hits the big leagues. If they're trading away Iguchi to make room for him then I think it's fairly obvious that at least for now KW sees him as the heir-apparent at 2B and not SS. Interesting that at Chicagosports.com; Gooch cried when Guillen told him the news. There's something also mentioned that Gooch would like to come back. If Richar does well/very well, wonder if the Sox will go after Gooch then...probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(Brian @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 08:48 PM) Where is Richar gonna bat? 8th? Does he have #2 potential? 71 Ks in 400 at-bats. So I would say not until that K number comes down. As far as bunting though, I don't how he is, but he needs to make contact. I think he will bat last to start and have 0 RBI opportunities with Uribe in front of him. But to me, he is a 6/7 hitter because of his solid power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:42 PM) 71 Ks in 400 at-bats. So I would say not until that K number comes down. Didn't stop Gooch from being a pretty good #2 hitter the last two years (I think at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:32 PM) Sometimes I'm just taken aback by the inflammatory, knee jerk reactions of Sox fans. It's disturbing. Just because a player was on the World Series team doesn't mean they have good trade value. It's not just a player on a WS team, but a quality, professional big league player....we basically gave him away. This dude is in LOW single-A. WHat the hell kind of idiot trade is this? Meanwhile, the Padres got 3 prospects (to be honest all of them are lukewarm prospects, but two are in high minor ball and doing well) for a middle relief rental. If the Brewers can get 3 prospects (2 of them in the high minors, 1 of them now heading to the majors) for a middle relief rental, I'd like to think we could get better than a marginal A-ball prospect for Iguchi. Bottom line is Williams got lucky to win the WS in 2005..."he" won it because of 4 great starting pitchers, a few good hitters, and some heady play. Overall however, the guy isn't that good. If he was, we wouldn't be battling KC for last and we wouldn't be starring at more years of this garbage. Edited July 28, 2007 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:54 PM) It's not just a player on a WS team, but a quality, professional big league player....we basically gave him away. This dude is in LOW single-A. WHat the hell kind of idiot trade is this? Meanwhile, the Padres got 3 prospects (to be honest all of them are lukewarm prospects, but two are in high minor ball and doing well) for a middle relief rental. If the Brewers can get 3 prospects (2 of them in the high minors, 1 of them now heading to the majors) for a middle relief rental, I'd like to think we could get better than a marginal A-ball prospect for Iguchi. Bottom line is Williams got lucky to win the WS in 2005..."he" won it because of 4 great starting pitchers, a few good hitters, and some heady play. Overall however, the guy isn't that good. If he was, we wouldn't be battling KC for last and we wouldn't be starring at more years of this garbage. 1.) Scott Linebrink is one of the best setup men in the game and by far the best available on the trade market. The Brewers will also receive 2 1st ROUND DRAFT PICKS as compensation when he walks in free agency. 2.) Tadahito Iguchi is a middle of the road 2B, which is probably the position of least consequence on the baseball field, having a s***ty second baseman is not going to hurt you all that much. He's also the 6th best 2B available on the trade market behind superior players such as Mark Loretta, Luis Castillo, Orlando Hudson, Mark Grudzelanik (brutalized his last name) and Ray Durham. What ever team that trades for him will be getting a 2 month rental and absolutely NO COMPENSATION if he leaves in free agency. So I ask you. If the Sox were not planning on retaining him, wanted to get a young player some time at his position and weren't likely to get anything of value in return for him anyway what the f*** does it matter if he gave him away? At least he got a body for him rather than allowing Tad to play out the final 2 months of the season while Richar remains a question mark and the Sox get no compensation for him when he leaves town in October. What is all the hubbub? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) Not only is Iguchi a dime a' dozen, but I promise you if Iguchi could have brought back a draft pick, he either would have been kept, or brought back a better prosepct. Exactly, if Iguchi were an american/latin player in his walk year perhaps KW could have gotten something of value for him but Tad being a Japanese ballplayer makes this a different situation entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29andPoplar Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 What is all the hubbub? Kalapse I think people expected more than one Dubee for Tadahito Iguchi. At least two Dubees or possibly a nickel bag, heck maybe even a dime bag. Let's hope it's a big fat Dubee at least. I can just see the headline when a few home runs are hit off of Dubee, "Dubee gets smoked". Sorry, couldn't resist. Back to serious conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) What leverage did Wiliams have with the Iguchi situation? Once again, if the Sox kept Iguchi, they would have gotten NOTHING back when he left. With the Sox so far out, there was no reason to keep a 32 year old 2b, especailly when you have a young 2b prospect tearing it up in AAA, possibly ready to make the full time jump to the majors. I understand this. If I understand this, Gillick is as well, which makes Iguchi's value next to nothing. Not only is Iguchi a dime a' dozen, but I promise you if Iguchi could have brought back a draft pick, he either would have been kept, or brought back a better prosepct. You know, the negative stuff on Iguchi here and this season is a bit surprising. In 2006 he was top 10 OPS for all second basemen. In 2005 he was top ten OPS for all second basemen. This year more like 17th...but the last two months he's been more like the .780 OPS that his career average says he is. I love the potential of Richar...but I think Iguchi will be missed. Not a superstar...but a fine player that cost us nothing and filled the 2B spot professionaly for the last two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 07:42 PM) 71 Ks in 400 at-bats. So I would say not until that K number comes down. As far as bunting though, I don't how he is, but he needs to make contact. I think he will bat last to start and have 0 RBI opportunities with Uribe in front of him. But to me, he is a 6/7 hitter because of his solid power. He does also bring some speed to the table, which would be a plus at the top of our order. The interesting thing is going to be that he's a lefty though, so a lot of that depends on how our order works out. You can't exactly put together a top 4 of Owens, Richar, Sweeney, and Thome, esp. if Podsednik or Erstad are even mentionned, and expect to be able to beat any LHP, ever. It will be nice to actually see some decent lefties coming up though. Seems like it's been a long time since we've seen that from the Sox; Konerko, Thomas, Lee, Ordonez, all big righties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) Exactly, Carl Everett has about as much trade value as Iguchi. After being a member of this site for 2 years now, I have to ask... is there anyone any fellow Sox fans here believe have any major league trade value??? Edited July 28, 2007 by TheBigHurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 08:41 PM) After being a member of this site for 2 years now, I have to ask... is there anyone any fellow Sox fans here believe have any major league trade value??? Jon Garland Mark Buehrle Javier Vazquez John Danks Paul Konerko Jim Thome Possibly Jermaine Dye Josh Fields AJ Pierzynski Bobby Jenks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Jon Garland Mark Buehrle Javier Vazquez John Danks Paul Konerko Jim Thome Possibly Jermaine Dye Josh Fields AJ Pierzynski Bobby Jenks Yeah, I suppose the problem is that we never get major leaguers in return. I just figure that if a player is in the majors and deserves to be, he's major league trade material. Maybe that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 04:11 PM) What did you expect to get for this guy? Final year of his contract and he is hitting .250 with 6 hone runs and 30 RBI. What the f*** did you people expect to get back? Come on!!!!! It is addition by subtraction if you ask me. Have Richar step in so we can see what we have. I'm not about to read 200 more posts, but thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) this is what a phillie fan on another board said about Dubee... Also saw him in Lakewood. Most likely on a grading scale he's about a C. He has shown improvement but his stuff is a bit eh. He may see a shot in the Majors but it's a question mark. Edited July 28, 2007 by BearSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 Dubee will join the Kannapolis rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 we basically gave him away. Exactly. If you are happy with getting nobody for Iguchi, fine. I don't understand why people are OK with getting nothing for him. It's not like he is Erstad-bad. KW gave him away. That is disgraceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 10:58 PM) Exactly. If you are happy with getting nobody for Iguchi, fine. I don't understand why people are OK with getting nothing for him. It's not like he is Erstad-bad. KW gave him away. That is disgraceful. He's having a bad year overall, he's been dreadful defensively, there are at least 5 better players available at the same position, the position he plays is not all that important, he's a 32 year old rent-a-player, he won't bring any team that rents him any compensation, he was of absolutely no use to the Sox and him not being on the team for the next 2 months is actually much better for the future of the ballclub than him being on the team. I don't see why this would upset you so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 10:58 PM) Exactly. If you are happy with getting nobody for Iguchi, fine. I don't understand why people are OK with getting nothing for him. It's not like he is Erstad-bad. KW gave him away. That is disgraceful. how so... if anything KW did him a favor of sending him somewhere to compete and get playing time. It is quite obvious KW was going to ger Richar up here one way or another. And who knows, we might sign him in the offseason depending on how Richar does, so we would actually be gaining in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 It upsets me so much because he was an everyday player on our world championship team, has a name still and we get ZERO for him. If we could get no more than what we got, keep him the rest of the year and his value will be low for his next contract anyway if he's as bad as you say. I hope he and Rowand kick ass and lead Philly to the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 It upsets me so much because he was an everyday player on our world championship team, has a name still and we get ZERO for him. If we could get no more than what we got, keep him the rest of the year and his value will be low for his next contract anyway if he's as bad as you say. I hope he and Rowand kick ass and lead Philly to the title. I'm completely with you on that. I dunno if that will happen, but who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 11:06 PM) It upsets me so much because he was an everyday player on our world championship team, has a name still and we get ZERO for him. If we could get no more than what we got, keep him the rest of the year and his value will be low for his next contract anyway if he's as bad as you say. I hope he and Rowand kick ass and lead Philly to the title. Had we kept him, we would have gotten zero for him. As is, we get a doobie. You can't complain about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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