Iguchi Traded to Phillies for RP/SP Michael Dubee

[Kalapse]

If we could get no more than what we got, keep him the rest of the year and his value will be low for his next contract anyway if he's as bad as you say.

Or the Sox could cut ties with him and let the 24 year old Danny Richar play the final 2 months in his spot to see if he's ready to hit major league hitting. At least this way the Sox get something for him and get to take a look at a possible replacement for the rest of this year. If Richar falls flat on his face in the final 2 months you could see Iguchi signed by the Sox this offseason.

 

There's nothing to get upset about this is only going to help the team for the future.

[BearSox]

I know we all love Gooch, but with the way some are acting, you'd think he would be in the running for the triple crown award and saving babies from burning buildings during his off time.

[supernuke]

I can not believe that anyone could possibly be upset with this trade. The Sox have to see what Richar can do in the majors now. If they didn't trade Tad he would have to spend the last two months of the season as a bench player so Richar could play. Tad looks to be declining anyway and I would not be surprised if he ends up back in Japan next year.

 

If any team would have been willing to give up more than a C level prospect for a 2B they would have been giving it up for Lorreta or Hudson or Grudz or Castillo knowing that they would get some draft picks back if they did not resign them or have their rights for next year in the case of Hudson.

[iamshack]

Ahh, it's just a case of fans being sentimental about an overall good guy. It stinks to see someone go who we all tended to like.

 

But as others have said, this is the best for us, the best for Tadahito, and the best for Danny Richar. So hopefully it will all work out for the best.

[WilliamTell]

I'm sad to see Tadahito go and I wish him the best of luck in Philly.

[knightni]

Dubee was a KW draft-and-follow.

 

Drafted - Selected by Chicago White Sox in 20th Round (599th overall) of 2004 amateur entry draft (June-Reg)

[phillychuck]

From a phlllies fan:

 

I'm surprised Iguchi didn't bring a bit better return since the Mets were eager to obtain him as well, reportedly anyway. If the Mets have something in place for Loretta then it's a different story--not many other teams are interested in a 2B at this point.

 

Dubee has been somewhat underutilized at Lakewood this year, and with the Sox moving him into their rotation at Kannapolis you might see him develop a bit. He is what he is, though--a C-level prospect who some people like as a sleeper whose K/IP ratio promises some future.

 

I think the Phils would have been willing to trade the Lakewood CF, Quentin Berry, whom I would have rather obtained if I were the Sox. Phils are hip-deep in CFs at almost every level because they like to draft speed and defense, not power.

 

We're actually speculating that Williams felt guilty about pawning off an injured Freddy Garcia on the Phils and made this trade out of some feelings of guilt...

[BearSox]

From a phlllies fan:

 

I'm surprised Iguchi didn't bring a bit better return since the Mets were eager to obtain him as well, reportedly anyway. If the Mets have something in place for Loretta then it's a different story--not many other teams are interested in a 2B at this point.

 

Dubee has been somewhat underutilized at Lakewood this year, and with the Sox moving him into their rotation at Kannapolis you might see him develop a bit. He is what he is, though--a C-level prospect who some people like as a sleeper whose K/IP ratio promises some future.

 

I think the Phils would have been willing to trade the Lakewood CF, Quentin Berry, whom I would have rather obtained if I were the Sox. Phils are hip-deep in CFs at almost every level because they like to draft speed and defense, not power.

We're actually speculating that Williams felt guilty about pawning off an injured Freddy Garcia on the Phils and made this trade out of some feelings of guilt...

 

that is very possible and someone mentioned it before.

[phillychuck]

Additionally, most of the posters here seem to think Iguchi is a very bad defensive 2B. Why is that?

 

Defensive UZR (ultimate zone rating, available through tangotiger's awesome web site) has him at +8 runs per 150 games, close to Utley's +13, which is gold-glove level.

 

Link to UZR article which has a link to all UZR ratings: http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/...le/updated_uzr/

[klaus kinski]

Additionally, most of the posters here seem to think Iguchi is a very bad defensive 2B. Why is that?

 

Defensive UZR (ultimate zone rating, available through tangotiger's awesome web site) has him at +8 runs per 150 games, close to Utley's +13, which is gold-glove level.

 

Link to UZR article which has a link to all UZR ratings: http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/...le/updated_uzr/

 

He is NOT a bad defensive 2B-makes the plays-some spectacular-and we were second in AL in turning double plays at the time of the trade. IMO-he was steady and never a liability on the field.

 

[Yossarian]

Additionally, most of the posters here seem to think Iguchi is a very bad defensive 2B. Why is that?

I don't. I don't. I don't. The trashing of Iguchi, and the enabling of Kenny here have literally made me sick to my stomach. You got a good player who's bat is starting to come around. I think you just may be right about the Kenny guilt thing.

[kwolf68]

From a phlllies fan:

 

 

 

We're actually speculating that Williams felt guilty about pawning off an injured Freddy Garcia on the Phils and made this trade out of some feelings of guilt...

 

 

Now that you mention it, this could be a very real possibility, but Gavin Floyd stinks. Still, Freddy is injured and the Sox got a pretty close to top of the line prospect for him (Gio). This way, the relationship between the two remains intact.

Edited July 28, 2007 by kwolf68

[Kalapse]

Additionally, most of the posters here seem to think Iguchi is a very bad defensive 2B. Why is that?

 

Defensive UZR (ultimate zone rating, available through tangotiger's awesome web site) has him at +8 runs per 150 games, close to Utley's +13, which is gold-glove level.

 

Link to UZR article which has a link to all UZR ratings: http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/...le/updated_uzr/

There's no better way to judge a players defense than seeing it with your own 2 eyes.

[daa84]

guys this whole KW felt bad for trading an injured garcia BS is just that ...BS. this isnt golf, you make moves with the best interest of your own team in mind...not someone elses

[AirScott]

There's no better way to judge a players defense than seeing it with your own 2 eyes.

And I haven't seen much of Chase Utley these season, but I really don't remember him as Gold Glove-caliber.

[phillychuck]

And I haven't seen much of Chase Utley these season, but I really don't remember him as Gold Glove-caliber.

 

Probably the second best defensive 2B in the NL, behind Orlando Hudson of the D'Backs. He has great range, turns the DP well, and is consistent. He's not as naturally quick as Hudson, who has unbelievable range, and Hudson seems to get to more pop-ups than Utley, too. Utley might win the GG with his bat one year (as players sometimes do--see Bobby Abreu), but his defense is up to the award.

 

[elrockinMT]

I think that basically the trade was made to dump someone and make it look like we are really making some moves here. Iguchi was a good player for the Sox and should have brought more than a class A level player in return.

[Maverick0984]

I think that basically the trade was made to dump someone and make it look like we are really making some moves here. Iguchi was a good player for the Sox and should have brought more than a class A level player in return.

 

^

 

Frankly, I'm pissed at what we got for Gooch. Since he got here, even with his lower numbers this year it was ranked like 2nd-5th for 2B in nearly every meaningful category. They showed it up on Comcast one night, I don't have any source :-/

[Kalapse]

You're all delusional.

[santo=dorf]

Are the Roberto Alomar jokes gonna be said until the end of time? Kind of stale, IMO.

Interesting that his name is brought up.

 

KW trades three players, one of which was out first round pick from the previous year for an over the hill, older, Roberto Alomar.

KW accepts one A ball 21 year old for a solid second baseman who is in the middle of his prime (age wise.)

 

Tadahito also had better numbers this year with the Sox than Alomar did with the Mets.

 

This trade reminds me a lot of the Durham-Adkins trade except the Sox knew they weren't getting compensation.

Edited July 28, 2007 by santo=dorf

[RME JICO]

Is it possible that the Sox made this move with the intent of resigning Gooch in the offseason?

 

Dump him to a team who already has an established 2B and have a better chance to resign him in the offseason compared to if he went to a team that actually needed a full time 2B.

[WCSox]

I think that basically the trade was made to dump someone and make it look like we are really making some moves here. Iguchi was a good player for the Sox and should have brought more than a class A level player in return.

 

Iguchi has $1.2 million remaining on his contract and has a .722 OPS this year. Most teams could pull up somebody from their farm system and see little difference in production.

 

[iamshack]

Interesting that his name is brought up.

 

KW trades three players, one of which was out first round pick from the previous year for an over the hill, older, Roberto Alomar.

KW accepts one A ball 21 year old for a solid second baseman who is in the middle of his prime (age wise.)

 

Tadahito also had better numbers this year with the Sox than Alomar did with the Mets.

 

This trade reminds me a lot of the Durham-Adkins trade except the Sox knew they weren't getting compensation.

 

That's just not a fair comparison. The market is completely different now than it was then. Value was in veteran certainty then, and it's clearly now in cost certainty.

[santo=dorf]

Iguchi has $1.2 million remaining on his contract and has a .722 OPS this year. Most teams could pull up somebody from their farm system and see little difference in production.

He's been much better since the ASB. How many teams can pull up a second baseman with a .381 OBP?

Even in June he had a line of 309 .368 .454 .822

[WCSox]

He's been much better since the ASB. How many teams can pull up a second baseman with a .381 OBP?

 

That's a .340 OBP. Agree that he's been better since the ASB, though.

 

Still, he's not worth much. His OBP and SB numbers aren't high enough to play him in the two-hole anymore. And his .382 SLG and regressing defense don't add much to his value, either. Since they couldn't have gotten draft picks for him, I'm more than happy to see Richar get some playing time and $1.2 million saved.