Terrible crash in Phoenix

[Steff]

 

 

2 news copters collide. 3 dead.

 

http://www.kpho.com/news/13770817/detail.html

 

 

[Gregory Pratt]

How does that happen?

[Brian]

How does that happen?

 

Good question.

[BHAMBARONS]

2 news copters collide. 3 dead.

 

http://www.kpho.com/news/13770817/detail.html

 

 

The helicopters were chasing a police chase and from what I have heard down here is the Channel 15 copter veered to close to the channel 3 copter.

 

 

The guy in chase barricaded himself inside a house and police sent the dogs in and they took him down. The guy in this chase according to the police will be charged with 4 counts of homicide in the deaths of the crews.

 

 

What an amazing job by the pilots before hitting the ground of steering the copters out of harm's way of the people on the ground. This crash occurred real close to Chase Field which is in downtown and a huge population area.

[Kid Gleason]

Anybody in either copter live? I would guess somebody did, as 3 dead seems an odd number for 2 copters. Especially news copters.

 

Never mind, I just read the story.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Kid Gleason

[3E8]

Why should the guy in the chase be charged for the helicopter deaths?

[BHAMBARONS]

Why should the guy in the chase be charged for the helicopter deaths?

 

 

 

The way the police interpret the new law; the copters were trying keeping the public safe and informed about the chase and if it wasn't for this high speed chase this accident wouldn't have happen.

 

 

The law is very vague it reads that anyone killed while in the commission of the chase (police, media, civilians). The police are holding him for these deaths and Andrew Thomas (DA) said he will file an indictment.

Edited July 28, 2007 by BHAMBARONS

[3E8]

Interesting, I disagree with that new law.

[Sonik22]

I see why he would be charged with murder, but that's BS!

[BHAMBARONS]

Interesting, I disagree with that new law.

 

 

I like the law in principle. I don't think it was designed with this in mind, most likely for civilian or media bystanders that are killed in the chase. Right now however this is the furthest thing on his mind because from the reports the dogs tore him up pretty bad and then the officers used some sort of weapon that stings worse than a "major league Fastball".

[sox4lifeinPA]

 

wow.

 

I don't believe the guy should get charged with "Homicide"...but Manslaughter isn't outside of logic. Yell "Fire" and people get trampled and killed it's your fault. Drink and Drive and kill someone and it's your fault. Cause a Police Chase that leads to someone's death...I think it's your fault.

 

you can't really say, "well if I had known....I wouldn't have done it"

[3E8]

But if you are drunk behind the wheel and kill someone it is because you actually hit them, they are doing nothing wrong. If the criminal killed someone while in the car chase because he hit them then I would definitely put him at fault. What if the air traffic controller made a mistake by letting one of the copters into an area or one of the pilots weren't following proper protocol and because of his mistake three lives were lost. I don't know where the line can be drawn. Could someone watching the story say they now feel depressed and sue this guy? The criminal obviously needs to serve some time for his actions, but with a homicide charge many many more years could be added to his sentence.

[sox4lifeinPA]

But if you are drunk behind the wheel and kill someone it is because you actually hit them, they are doing nothing wrong. If the criminal killed someone while in the car chase because he hit them then I would definitely put him at fault. What if the air traffic controller made a mistake by letting one of the copters into an area or one of the pilots weren't following proper protocol and because of his mistake three lives were lost. I don't know where the line can be drawn. Could someone watching the story say they now feel depressed and sue this guy? The criminal obviously needs to serve some time for his actions, but with a homicide charge many many more years could be added to his sentence.

 

I get what you're saying, but there are consentric circles of connection to this guy causing a police chase.

 

Level 1 - any officers or bystanders directly connected to the chase

 

Level 2 - any peripheral media or bystanders

 

Level 3 - non-direct encountering individuals

 

 

The suspect would be responsible for Level 1 & 2, as long as it related directly to the incident

[GoodAsGould]

If i was the jury I would have a hard time convicting this guy for the deaths from the helicopters, especially since it wasnt police helicopter that was involved in a high speed chase when it happened but 2 news helicopters.

[danman31]

That's crap. If you want to use butterfly effect you could say Bush killed everyone on 9/11 for not responding to the warning signs. It's a stretch and I don't want to get into the politics of it, but the point is the same. This is more direct, but it's the helicopters' faults they got in a crash. It's awful that people died, but that would be a horrific injustice if they guy was charged for the murders of people he had no direct contact with.

[BHAMBARONS]

If i was the jury I would have a hard time convicting this guy for the deaths from the helicopters, especially since it wasnt police helicopter that was involved in a high speed chase when it happened but 2 news helicopters.

 

 

If Thomas goes through on this (I hope he doesn't) the defense needs to motion for a change of venue. Here in Phoenix he would stand no chance of being found not guilty. These news guys were considered family and there is a lot of hatred for the guy accused.

[BHAMBARONS]

That's crap. If you want to use butterfly effect you could say Bush killed everyone on 9/11 for not responding to the warning signs. It's a stretch and I don't want to get into the politics of it, but the point is the same. This is more direct, but it's the helicopters' faults they got in a crash. It's awful that people died, but that would be a horrific injustice if they guy was charged for the murders of people he had no direct contact with.

 

 

The only problem is that this law is so vague. The law says that any police, media, and or pedestrian in a chase that is killed the person responsible for starting the chase can be held responsible.

 

The law in principle is good but I believe the design was for people on the ground that were killed, I could be wrong but I don't believe so.

[NorthSideSox72]

I haven't seen the text of the law (anyone have it?), but that really does seem like a stretch of logic, especially since the crash could more directly be attributed to the actions of the helicopter pilots. Proximity of cause falls outside the chase, it would seem. But depending on the nature of the new law, that could really throw a wrench in there.

 

By the way, someone mentioned air traffic control. Helicopters flying close to ground like that aren't directed by ATC - they fly on their own using the VFR equipment on hand. ATC is likely aware of their presence in the general area, but ATC isn't telling the choppers where to go.

 

[BHAMBARONS]

I haven't seen the text of the law (anyone have it?), but that really does seem like a stretch of logic, especially since the crash could more directly be attributed to the actions of the helicopter pilots. Proximity of cause falls outside the chase, it would seem. But depending on the nature of the new law, that could really throw a wrench in there.

 

By the way, someone mentioned air traffic control. Helicopters flying close to ground like that aren't directed by ATC - they fly on their own using the VFR equipment on hand. ATC is likely aware of their presence in the general area, but ATC isn't telling the choppers where to go.

 

 

 

Yes I would like to see the actual written law myself. Personally he is already got enough charges against him to send him away until he is 70 so why add on like this.