Floyd Replaces Contreras in Rotation

[Yossarian]

For all the people that like this move, I am curious about something, if Floyd continues to pitch like he has shown, how many starts do you give him until you do pull the plug? When is enough enough?

Apparently to lots of Sox fans, enough is never enough when it comes to Gavin Floyd.

 

[thedoctor]

well, at least jose will fit right in with those guys.

[Dick Allen]

Apparently to lots of Sox fans, enough is never enough when it comes to Gavin Floyd.

We need someone from a Phillie board to come in here and hold an intervention. It is good to see that Floyd apparently is going to have to show something his one start or this experiment will not continue. I can live with that.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Dick Allen

[Yossarian]

It won't burn out the bullpen -- that's what Haeger is here for.

No, I don't think so.

 

[SoxFan77]

Funny how Floyd needs the opportunity but Haeger, who has AAA Charlotte 2006 numbers about the same as Floyd's 2007 AAA numbers and who has better major league numbers than Floyd, "is what he is." That's more than a little hypocritical. Floyd blew with Philadelphia, went back to AAA and struggled worse than Haeger struggled in AAA this season. Using your logic, Floyd should have been selling cars by now. (Although I do agree he should be selling cars).

 

Neither should be an option. Floyd should have never been brought here, we needed a OF and KW gets a AAAA and AA pitcher. Haeger.. IckyICky poo poo.. I don't want a knuckleball pitcher on in Coors Lite Park..that just spells trouble.

[elrockinMT]

Something needs to be done with Contreras & I think we all agree on that. I don't know if Floyd has anything better, but let's find out. But, for crying out loud 8 homers in 14 innings. The number of homers allowed by our pitchers is emabarssing. These new guys come up and throw basketballs up there rather than baseballs.

[BamaDoc]

I have no problem with Floyd starting for August, if unsuccessful let Haeger start for September.

[SoxFan77]

What is Jaime Navvaro doing these days.. Think he can make a start or two.. Can't be any worse. Todd Richie?

[Rowand44]

Apparently to lots of Sox fans, enough is never enough when it comes to Gavin Floyd.

Riiiiight. 14 innings surely is enough for anybody.

[kwolf68]

I have no problem with Floyd starting for August, if unsuccessful let Haeger start for September.

 

 

If Floyd stinks (likely) then I say September starts should go to Broadway, Egbert, or Gio Gonzalez. Put the knuckler into the museum where it belongs.

[Dick Allen]

Riiiiight. 14 innings surely is enough for anybody.

Apparently everyone who thinks 14 innings isn't enough, disregarding his previous 111 in the major leagues, thinks 11 is more than enough to judge a guy who is even younger than Floyd and still a baby throwing a knuckler.

 

[Yossarian]

PS: if Floyd is our best option -- I think Egbert and Haeger would be better options. Maybe even Masset, but let's just say, Floyd is our best option...

 

...then that's a testament to how bad this organization has been at drafting, developing and scouting players.

POTW material IMHO. While we're going back and forth about the merits of a sandlot pitcher named Floyd, you've succintly summed it up. I think the next few years are going to be real tough for Sox fans.

 

[Hideaway Lights]

Someone find me an example, ANY EXAMPLE of a pitcher pitching as badly as Gavin Floyd has over the course of almost 100 innings in the majors.

 

I'm pretty sure his sucktitude since 2005 is unprecendented. I certainly cannot think of anyone who is close.

 

100 major league innings is a lot. That's probably 20+ starts (he probably last an average of under 5 innings). Who else has a 7.32 ERA (mostly established in the National League) and is handed a starting job?

 

We invested what in him? Those who on the one hand ask "would you rather have Freddy who sucks" cannot then turn around and say "well we're INVESTED in the kid because we traded Garcia for him". First of all, we've invested NOTHING, technically. In fact, we dumped contract to get this guy so it's more like the reverse! More importantly though, you can't have it both ways. Either Garcia sucks and was worthless or he's not.

 

In my opinion, this is about Kenny's ego, not what is best for the team. Kenny is willing to do whatever it takes to prove he was right about Floyd, and that includes not knowing when to throw the towel in with what obviously is a huge bust of a prospect and bust of an acquisition. I'd rather see anyone than Floyd. He just doesn't have it, and he never will, and I have never felt more confidently about a pro sports player being unsuitable since probably Ryan Leaf.

 

Yes, I hated the acquisition. Regardless of Garcia's ability, he had value that was way above what we got for him. Value that could've helped this season. I know our record doesn't reflect it, but up until about 30 games ago the season really could have gone either way.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Hideaway Lights

[LVSoxFan]

Has anybody ever witnessed a former ace just go over a cliff like Contreras has? Granted, I hated him 1st half of 2005 because he was inconsistent, but he'd STILL pull off a win now and then. And of course 2nd half and into 2006 he was arguably the best pitcher in the league.

 

And now... this. I'm not mocking him, it just makes me sad to see a guy fall apart completely like that. I've seen relievers have great years and then go over the Cliff (Politte, ahem) but this kind of absolute meltdown is something I've never seen before.

 

And he just seems mentally absent, like he doesn't care about the game, himself, anything (he never really was an emotional guy to begin with).

 

Simply bizarre. Does anybody have ANY explanation?

[NorthSideSox72]

Apparently everyone who thinks 14 innings isn't enough, disregarding his previous 111 in the major leagues, thinks 11 is more than enough to judge a guy who is even younger than Floyd and still a baby throwing a knuckler.

I for one think that Floyd deserves a shot - give him August. But I also think that Haeger might be good if given a chance. Both are maybes. But I agree that if you think one is deserving of a look, the other should be as well.

 

[Balta1701]

I for one think that Floyd deserves a shot - give him August. But I also think that Haeger might be good if given a chance. Both are maybes. But I agree that if you think one is deserving of a look, the other should be as well.

I'd still give Floyd most of September too, for the simple reason that I'm pretty sure Charlie has minor league options remaining, so he should be able to stay with the team and get another shot next year as well.

[Yossarian]

Has anybody ever witnessed a former ace just go over a cliff like Contreras has? Granted, I hated him 1st half of 2005 because he was inconsistent, but he'd STILL pull off a win now and then. And of course 2nd half and into 2006 he was arguably the best pitcher in the league.

 

And now... this. I'm not mocking him, it just makes me sad to see a guy fall apart completely like that. I've seen relievers have great years and then go over the Cliff (Politte, ahem) but this kind of absolute meltdown is something I've never seen before.

 

And he just seems mentally absent, like he doesn't care about the game, himself, anything (he never really was an emotional guy to begin with).

 

Simply bizarre. Does anybody have ANY explanation?

I've thought pretty much the same thing. His deterioration of late is simply mind boggling. He has become way beyond Jaime Navarro bad. I really didn't think the Sox had a good enough team to make the playoffs this year. I thought their narrow window closed last year. However I thought they were good for 85-89 wins in a tough division. I never foresaw the total meltdown of most of the bullpen and our former "ace" Jose Contreras. This season just flat out sucks on so many levels.

 

[BaseballNick]

In my opinion, this is about Kenny's ego, not what is best for the team.

 

Would you rather they hand the job to Haeger, Masset, or Sisqo? They've all proved that they are no more ready to start than Floyd is at this point. This isn't about ego..are you serious??? This is about giving the guy who was drafted 4th overall a chance to live up to his potential. Seriously, what is the harm in giving this guy a few starts when our team has NOTHING LEFT TO PLAY FOR?

[CanOfCorn]

Give Floyd the rest of the year. If he can't put it together or show some SERIOUS signs of improvement with no pressure being placed on him (i.e. no one to replace him, no chance of going to AAA, etc.). Working with ONE pitching coach day-to-day. Let's see what he can do. If he sucks from now until the end of the year...dump him.

 

But to say it was a bad trade??? How many innings has Garcia pitched this year? If anything, at this point, it's a wash.

[Hideaway Lights]

Would you rather they hand the job to Haeger, Masset, or Sisqo? They've all proved that they are no more ready to start than Floyd is at this point. This isn't about ego..are you serious??? This is about giving the guy who was drafted 4th overall a chance to live up to his potential. Seriously, what is the harm in giving this guy a few starts when our team has NOTHING LEFT TO PLAY FOR?

 

Because Floyd has zero percent chance to succeed at this point. He has been given a "few starts" in the major leagues over four different years, most of them in the weaker league (and a weak division in that league! Nationals, anyone?)

 

The other players can be groomed to be successful. Floyd is done. It does not matter where he was drafted. Like I said, find another player that has a 7.32 career ERA for 100+ innings.

[Gregory Pratt]

A) You're hanging on Haeger because of Rob Neyer, and you damn well know it.

 

Yeah, you got me.

 

No, not at all. BP likes him, Tim Wakefield likes him, Neyer likes him, a few posters on here like him (beautox, where have you gone?) and I like him. He's a very intriguing young pitcher.

 

B) Exactly what is the downside to pitching Floyd and seeing what he can do? DA obviously wants him gone now, do you agree?

 

I have no use for him and I've seen enough. But I'm all for giving him a few more shots -- not the whole damn season, mind you -- because I want Floyd to prove who he is beyond a shadow of a doubt. I want him to get "his shot" -- as if the shot he got in Philly and the shot he's getting now and the shot he got in the spring weren't fair shots -- so that nobody can argue that Ozzie ruined him or I ruined him or DA ruined him or whatever excuses people will make for him. He just isn't very good and he's shown it.

 

C) What if John Danks' first three starts had been like Floyd's last few starts? Would we deem him worthless too? I know he is younger, but 24 and 22 are really not that huge of a difference. Look at Rich Hill. He's 27 and finally putting it togeher.

 

If John Danks' first three starts had been like Floyd's, he'd still have a lot of room to hang himself with. Fortunately, they weren't like Floyd's, and he isn't anything like Gavin Floyd. John Danks would never lose a fifth starter job that's been gift-wrapped for him. Danks doesn't look like he's terrified. Danks' motion isn't inconsistent. Danks can pitch from the stretch.

 

Allow Egbert and Gio to master AAA before we rush them here, and accept that Haeger is what he is- a kid with no mastery of the knuckleball and on a team without a catcher who can catch it.

 

I believe DA says it best when he says,

 

Funny how Floyd needs the opportunity but Haeger, who has AAA Charlotte 2006 numbers about the same as Floyd's 2007 AAA numbers and who has better major league numbers than Floyd, "is what he is." That's more than a little hypocritical. Floyd blew with Philadelphia, went back to AAA and struggled worse than Haeger struggled in AAA this season. Using your logic, Floyd should have been selling cars by now. (Although I do agree he should be selling cars).

[Hideaway Lights]

You know what guys? I take it all back. We really should also give Scott Ruffcorn a few starts to live up to his potential.

[NorthSideSox72]

Because Floyd has zero percent chance to succeed at this point. He has been given a "few starts" in the major leagues over four different years, most of them in the weaker league (and a weak division in that league! Nationals, anyone?)

 

The other players can be groomed to be successful. Floyd is done. It does not matter where he was drafted. Like I said, find another player that has a 7.32 career ERA for 100+ innings.

 

Floyd has ZERO chance, but the others can be "groomed"? Let's try again to have some perspective here. I can't see how anyone can say that someone with Floyd's tools has ZERO chance, but that Haeger can be "groomed".

 

[fathom]

Because Floyd has zero percent chance to succeed at this point.

 

Congrats on the worst statement made during this entire thread.

[Hideaway Lights]

Congrats on the worst statement made during this entire thread.

 

Gavin Floyd will never pitch in the majors successfully.