Floyd Replaces Contreras in Rotation

[Hideaway Lights]

What's the damn difference between an ERA over 6 and an ERA over 7?

 

Are you joking? A full run difference in ERA?

[iamshack]

Are you joking? A full run difference in ERA?

No, I am not joking. The difference in an ERA of 6 and an ERA of 7 is like the difference between hitting .112 or .147. It doesn't matter because it's not close to good enough. You have absolutely no point whatsoever. Pitchers either get the job done or they don't. Historically, anything over 5 is not good enough. Yet there are plenty of pitchers Gavin's age who struggled initially and managed to turn into solid major league pitchers.

[Dick Allen]

What's the damn difference between an ERA over 6 and an ERA over 7?

The fact is, Floyd has not been improving since his debut in 2004 when he gave up 1 run in 7 innings. He's getting worse.

[Soxbadger]

How is 6.46 for Garland uncomparable?

 

You also fail to mention in Gavin's first stint in the big leagues he posted a 3.5 era in 30 ip.

 

And how is Halladay not comparable?

 

So he pitched good his first season and then tanked.

 

That seems exactly like what is happening with Gavin, except for he was not given 150 ip in his first season because he was called up later in the year.

 

So if Gavin had pitched 3.5 era for 100 ip in his first season, then tanked the next 2, you would be saying hes fixable?

 

But because he only pitched 30, and then has been tooled around, he is unfixable?

 

Not to mention Gavin has not finished the season, if he puts up a few good outings his era will be around 5-6, exactly like the players I posted.

 

But thanks for creating a 100 ip rule, that seems to have no rhyme or reason.

[Dick Allen]

No, I am not joking. The difference in an ERA of 6 and an ERA of 7 is like the difference between hitting .112 or .147. It doesn't matter because it's not close to good enough. You have absolutely no point whatsoever. Pitchers either get the job done or they don't. Historically, anything over 5 is not good enough. Yet there are plenty of pitchers Gavin's age who struggled initially and managed to turn into solid major league pitchers.

But Charlie Haeger, 9 months younger, is what he is.

[iamshack]

The fact is, Floyd has not been improving since his debut in 2004 when he gave up 1 run in 7 innings. He's getting worse.

 

The sample size is not enough to show if he is improving or not. For all the people, including yourself, who argued that WMP just needs "everyday at bats" to prove he can hit like he did for the Reds in 05', I don't see how you can say that Floyd has been given a fair shot to show what he is capable of.

[Dick Allen]

How is 6.46 for Garland uncomparable?

 

You also fail to mention in Gavin's first stint in the big leagues he posted a 3.5 era in 30 ip.

 

And how is Halladay not comparable?

 

So he pitched good his first season and then tanked.

 

That seems exactly like what is happening with Gavin, except for he was not given 150 ip in his first season because he was called up later in the year.

 

So if Gavin had pitched 3.5 era for 100 ip in his first season, then tanked the next 2, you would be saying hes fixable?

 

But because he only pitched 30, and then has been tooled around, he is unfixable?

 

Not to mention Gavin has not finished the season, if he puts up a few good outings his era will be around 5-6, exactly like the players I posted.

 

But thanks for creating a 100 ip rule, that seems to have no rhyme or reason.

Garland's is not comparable because he was 20 years old at the time. Floyd has a 5.24 career ERA in parts of 4 seasons in AAA. He's not good.

[Dick Allen]

The sample size is not enough to show if he is improving or not. For all the people, including yourself, who argued that WMP just needs "everyday at bats" to prove he can hit like he did for the Reds in 05', I don't see how you can say that Floyd has been given a fair shot to show what he is capable of.

I never said that. I said put him out there the rest of the year (WMP) and see if he is worthy. You cannot say he has been as awful as Floyd his major league career, and he also has an excuse as he didn't get the minor league time Floyd has had.

[iamshack]

But Charlie Haeger, 9 months younger, is what he is.

 

Why don't you address the point that he cannot throw the only pitch he is physically capable of throwing instead of taking one sentence out of context and conveniently eliminating the sentences that immediately followed it?

[Soxbadger]

In Floyds last 2 seasons at AAA he posted a 4.23 and a 3.12.

 

Seems that he has been improving, not exactly sure why 1 AAA season 3 years ago means more than the last 2?

[iamshack]

I never said that. I said put him out there the rest of the year (WMP) and see if he is worthy. You cannot say he has been as awful as Floyd his major league career, and he also has an excuse as he didn't get the minor league time Floyd has had.

 

You wanted to TRADE for a guy and put him out there and "see if he is worthy." Yet you won't give the guy we ALREADY have that chance.

 

Talk about hypocritical.

 

It's the same damn thing. Potential.

[NorthSideSox72]

Just to take this in a slightly different direction...

 

The one thing I hope does NOT happen to either Floyd or Haeger is to put him in the fifth slot, have him pitch one game, and then pull him out. That is utterly pointless, and will only destroy their confidence. If you are going to give one or the other a shot at this point, then give them a solid 4 or 5 starts.

 

[Dick Allen]

Why don't you address the point that he cannot throw the only pitch he is physically capable of throwing instead of taking one sentence out of context and conveniently eliminating the sentences that immediately followed it?

As far as I can see, Floyd can do nothing, but you think because KW has you in a trance that he is capable of good things. Haeger was just as good in Charlotte last year as Floyd was this. His minor league stats are just as good. His major league stats are much better, but KW didn't trade a big name and go out on a limb and call him one of the top prospects in baseball. So he's in Charlotte and Floyd is getting ready to get beat up again in Detroit. I'm sure there will be plenty of excuses. He's been in the bullpen for a week or 2 so I'm sure it will be unfair to Gavin to expect much.

[BaseballNick]

What's the damn difference between an ERA over 6 and an ERA over 7?

 

No, don't you get it? Because his ERA was over 7, he can never, ever turn into a major league pitcher and we need to cut him right now. The cutoff is apparently set at an ERA of 6.

 

Give me a break...

[Dick Allen]

No, don't you get it? Because his ERA was over 7, he can never, ever turn into a major league pitcher and we need to cut him right now. The cutoff is apparently set at an ERA of 6.

 

Give me a break...

8 homers in 14 innings. A star is born..............

 

[Dick Allen]

You wanted to TRADE for a guy and put him out there and "see if he is worthy." Yet you won't give the guy we ALREADY have that chance.

 

Talk about hypocritical.

 

It's the same damn thing. Potential.

The trade for me would have saved money. The added benefit would be to see if the guy you get back can play. Kind of like whats going on with Richar. We should know right now that Floyd cannot pitch in the major leagues.

[Soxbadger]

But haeger this year has a 4.81 era at AAA has a whip of 1.55

 

Last year even with a era of 3.07 he had a whip of 1.30

 

Floyd had a whip of 1.35 last year and a whip of 1.20 this year.

 

The fact that Haeger has a control problem is why he needs work at AAA.

 

Floyd has proven everything he can, at this point its either he can pitch in MLB or he is a AAAA player. hence why he needs to be playing at MLB, where as Haeger can play at AAA and learn something. Namely throwing strikes with his knuckle.

[BaseballNick]

8 homers in 14 innings. A star is born..............

 

Garland went 1.1IP and gave up 8ER on 9 hits today. I guess he sucks too huh?

 

 

[iamshack]

The trade for me would have saved money. The added benefit would be to see if the guy you get back can play. Kind of like whats going on with Richar. We should know right now that Floyd cannot pitch in the major leagues.

 

Why should we know that Floyd cannot pitch in the major leagues but that Wily Mo Pena can play in the major leagues?

 

I cannot believe you are going off of the last 14 innings with this franchise as some sort of indicator that the kid is washed up. Especially considering he pitched against a team his first start hat scored 11 runs off of Jon a few hours before. That is the equivalent of trading for WMP, giving him 30 at bats, and then deciding that he truly did stink and never allowing him to play again. You are not only raking Kenny over the coals for acquiring Floyd, but you were just 3 days ago calling for him to make the exact same kind of deal. Talk about hypocritical.

 

And saving money? That was not a major concern considering that Dye will bring back some compensation as opposed to what was being offered.

[Dick Allen]

Garland went 1.1IP and gave up 8ER on 9 hits today. I guess he sucks too huh?

This is the best post in history.

[iamshack]

This is the best post in history.

 

It's pretty similar to the crap you are arguing right now, which was the entire purpose of his post.

[Dick Allen]

Why should we know that Floyd cannot pitch in the major leagues but that Wily Mo Pena can play in the major leagues?

 

I cannot believe you are going off of the last 14 innings with this franchise as some sort of indicator that the kid is washed up. Especially considering he pitched against a team his first start hat scored 11 runs off of Jon a few hours before. That is the equivalent of trading for WMP, giving him 30 at bats, and then deciding that he truly did stink and never allowing him to play again. You are not only raking Kenny over the coals for acquiring Floyd, but you were just 3 days ago calling for him to make the exact same kind of deal. Talk about hypocritical.

 

And saving money? That was not a major concern considering that Dye will bring back some compensation as opposed to what was being offered.

With Floyd, I am also figuring in his 111 innings with Philadelphia and his career 5.24 ERA in AAA. Saving a couple million on Dye would have been big considering KW is paying the entire bullpen $3.6 million this year. Every dollar saved this year could be used next season. Sandwich picks don't excite me.

[CanOfCorn]

I say we throw anyone who can't ever improve into a barge and ship them off to some remote island off the Falklands. I'm talking baseball players, football players, any athlete. In fact, let's just throw EVERYONE that we think can NEVER improve into a giant woodchipper.

 

You people are incredible. 100+ innings?!?! That's nothing. Danks has gotten a better shot in 1 year than Gavin has in his career. I'm not saying he WILL improve, but for the love of all that's holy, give him a chance. Gio/Egbert/DLS are all still young. You have a better chance of ruining their confidence than a 24 year old who probably realizes this is his LAST chance.

[SoxFan77]

Can we replace Garland with Contreas?

[Dick Allen]

I say we throw anyone who can't ever improve into a barge and ship them off to some remote island off the Falklands. I'm talking baseball players, football players, any athlete. In fact, let's just throw EVERYONE that we think can NEVER improve into a giant woodchipper.

 

You people are incredible. 100+ innings?!?! That's nothing. Danks has gotten a better shot in 1 year than Gavin has in his career. I'm not saying he WILL improve, but for the love of all that's holy, give him a chance. Gio/Egbert/DLS are all still young. You have a better chance of ruining their confidence than a 24 year old who probably realizes this is his LAST chance.

Fine. How come Haeger isn't getting a shot? He has only about 30 innings in his career. If everyone who has been as bad as Floyd has been for as long as Floyd has been get the same opportunities, I would have no problem. Do you really think he would get this chance if KW had acquired him for some minor league garbage?

Edited August 2, 2007 by Dick Allen