I bet Dye will be back next year

[Dick Allen]

Konerko isn't going to DH. He will always be a better firstbaseman than Dye. His picks have been great. He's very aggressive with his throws. His range isn't great, if it were he'd win a GG. He'll be fine there the duration of his contract.

[Yossarian]

I dont know what we could get for Thome, but I would think we could get something pretty darn good for him. Thoughts?

Maybe even 2 Class A pitchers.

 

[BearSox]

I could see Thome staying for a while. Is it just me, or does Thome just seem like he won't finally call it quits until he is about 42-44? I wouldn't mind brining back Thome after next season only if he would take a pay cut and be willing to kinda platoon at DH.

[iamshack]

He is absolutely above average. A couple years ago I'd have said GG caliber (not now though). Let's look at some numbers. Among all MLB firstbasemen...

 

8th in FPct

12th in ZR

15th in RF

 

There are 30 teams. He is average or above average in each of those three categories. And oh yeah, he is 4th in games played at 1B, so he's doing that while playing just about every day, despite being an older player.

 

He is, and has been, an above average defender at his position.

 

ETA: That isn't even to mention the intangibles - he is a smart player, and makes very few mental mistakes (which don't always show up in the stats).

 

Agreed, maybe Schulerholz said PK was bad in his latest book. And that's not even accounting for all the errors he's bailed his infielders out of this season.

[WCSox]

Agreed, maybe Schulerholz said PK was bad in his latest book.

 

 

There's no need to move Paulie to DH. He absolutely is an above-average 1B and has surprisingly good range for such a slow guy.

 

[elrockinMT]

I understand why people would want JD back, but to me, the fact is, he should be a DH somewhere next year, and if he isn't a DH, he'll wind up just like this year; struggling for a month or two with some sort of nagging injury that winds up preventing him from putting up good numbers. I just don't think he has it in him to be a full time outfielder next season.

 

 

You can only base that comment on his being injured for a stint this year. he is healthy and producing. Jermaine Dye is not a liability to the Sox and I agree with those calling for KW to sign him to an extension.

[witesoxfan]

Maybe even 2 Class A pitchers.

 

You mean like the two Class A pitchers the Yankees got for Randy Johnson after he sucked (read: 5.00 ERA) with a terrible contract (read:$13 mill in each of the next 2) aged more than 7 years (Thome is 37 this month, RJ is 44 in a little over a month)?

 

Thome will net a very solid package, just like he did the only other time he was traded, because he's still a huge force in the middle of any lineup and I honestly don't see that ever changing. He's injury prone, and if a team doesn't understand that, they are lying to themselves. If you think Thome can only get two Class A pitchers, you are being dumb, plain and simple, because he will net a hell of a package, even as a 37 year old, because he gets on base and he hits for a s***load of power. Those are the types of players who are the most valuable to a franchise.

[Dick Allen]

You mean like the two Class A pitchers the Yankees got for Randy Johnson after he sucked (read: 5.00 ERA) with a terrible contract (read:$13 mill in each of the next 2) aged more than 7 years (Thome is 37 this month, RJ is 44 in a little over a month)?

 

Thome will net a very solid package, just like he did the only other time he was traded, because he's still a huge force in the middle of any lineup and I honestly don't see that ever changing. He's injury prone, and if a team doesn't understand that, they are lying to themselves. If you think Thome can only get two Class A pitchers, you are being dumb, plain and simple, because he will net a hell of a package, even as a 37 year old, because he gets on base and he hits for a s***load of power. Those are the types of players who are the most valuable to a franchise.

He really is a DH only at this point, so that will limit where he could go as would his contract. The White Sox most likely would not be able to get back fair value for him. They should keep him.

[Gregory Pratt]

He is absolutely above average. A couple years ago I'd have said GG caliber (not now though). Let's look at some numbers. Among all MLB firstbasemen...

 

8th in FPct

12th in ZR

15th in RF

 

There are 30 teams. He is average or above average in each of those three categories. And oh yeah, he is 4th in games played at 1B, so he's doing that while playing just about every day, despite being an older player.

 

He is, and has been, an above average defender at his position.

 

ETA: That isn't even to mention the intangibles - he is a smart player, and makes very few mental mistakes (which don't always show up in the stats).

 

That says average to me, at best.

 

Agreed, maybe Schulerholz said PK was bad in his latest book. And that's not even accounting for all the errors he's bailed his infielders out of this season.

 

I'll say this: Konerko is thirty and plays like he's thirty four. He hasn't got too many good years left, and he's a prime "Trade him for good value before you're stuck with him at a bad value" candidate to me, but besides that -- I guess I've got to laugh at your Schuerholz crack. It's a cute rib. And since I make jokes about the players Kenny Williams thinks he can make into studs all the time, I guess it's well-played. Except for the fact that I gave him plenty of credit for his picks which are the only thing he does particularly well, so it was "accounted for all the errors he's bailed his infielders out of."

[AirScott]

He really is a DH only at this point, so that will limit where he could go as would his contract. The White Sox most likely would not be able to get back fair value for him. They should keep him.

And he only has value in the AL because when he plays first base he needs to sit out the next few days.

[NorthSideSox72]

That says average to me, at best.

Kind of hard to take your posts seriously when someone shows you a series of above average numbers and plus defensive skills, and instead of responding with some sort of valid counterpoint, you just decide they tell you something else.

 

"Do you think that's air you're breathing now?"

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Kind of hard to take your posts seriously when someone shows you a series of above average numbers and plus defensive skills, and instead of responding with some sort of valid counterpoint, you just decide they tell you something else.

 

"Do you think that's air you're breathing now?"

 

Numeric rating doesn't necessarily mean that much to me in this regard. First base is a position where you put just about anybody who can hit but can't field and so it's got a lot of weak defensive players there. That kind of rating at first is skewed.

 

Everything I've read and seen tells me he's below average to average and he's excellent at making picks on bad throws. That about sums it up.

[WCSox]

That says average to me, at best.

 

I'll say this: Konerko is thirty and plays like he's thirty four.

 

Bias = poor analysis

 

He hasn't got too many good years left, and he's a prime "Trade him for good value before you're stuck with him at a bad value" candidate to me,

 

He's 31 and he can move to DH when/if his defense regresses... and there's no evidence of that yet. Paulie's also a lock for 30 HRs and an .850-.900 OPS every year. He's also healthy (typically over 150 games per year) and his contract is reasonable. Until there's some evidence of his bat speed decreasing (which there probably won't be for another three or four years), there's no reason to move him.

 

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Bias = poor analysis

 

 

 

He's 31 and he can move to DH when/if his defense regresses... and there's no evidence of that yet. Paulie's also a lock for 30 HRs and an .850-.900 OPS every year. He's also healthy (typically over 150 games per year) and his contract is reasonable. Until there's some evidence of his bat speed decreasing (which there probably won't be for another three or four years), there's no reason to move him.

 

He really is playing on borrowed time, with his hip. I hope I'm wrong. I know that the people at Rush do really good work.

 

I'm not saying move him for a bag of balls, but you definitely consider it and look around. I would.

[WCSox]

He really is playing on borrowed time, with his hip. I hope I'm wrong. I know that the people at Rush do really good work.

 

I'm not saying move him for a bag of balls, but you definitely consider it and look around. I would.

 

I've been hearing the stuff about his hip for the past seven years. From what I understand, it's not a degenerative condition. He's not going to go down in flames like Albert Belle.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

I've been hearing the stuff about his hip for the past seven years. From what I understand, it's not a degenerative condition. He's not going to go down in flames like Albert Belle.

 

His hip's arthritic, IIRC.

[NorthSideSox72]

Numeric rating doesn't necessarily mean that much to me in this regard. First base is a position where you put just about anybody who can hit but can't field and so it's got a lot of weak defensive players there. That kind of rating at first is skewed.

 

Everything I've read and seen tells me he's below average to average and he's excellent at making picks on bad throws. That about sums it up.

So, since there are weak defenders at 1B... you are saying PK is weak defensively compared to players at other positions? Kind of a weird way to evaluate, no?

 

I just want to know what this "everything" you've read and seen tells you, because everything else in this thread regarding his defense (specific stats, specific skills like making picks, discipline and control) is positive. There is a whole litany of information saying he is better than average. So how can "everything" you've read and seen tell you otherwise?

 

[29andPoplar]

My understanding, for what its worth, is his hip is not arthritic. His hip joints are not aligned normally is what I've been told. Which basically requires certain strength and conditioning activity and what might be considered chiropractic type stuff.

[WCSox]

My understanding, for what its worth, is his hip is not arthritic. His hip joints are not aligned normally is what I've been told.

 

That's what I remember hearing as well.

 

If Paulie had degenerative arthritis, I'd think that he's be experiencing symptoms and missing time by now. This is a guy who's played the equivalent of nine full seasons and only had injury issues once (2003... and I don't believe that had anything to do with his hip). And he certainly wouldn't be playing above-average defense at 1B. Albert Belle was out of baseball at age 34. Paulie's already 31.

Edited August 3, 2007 by WCSox

[Balta1701]

(2003... and I don't believe that had anything to do with his hip).

One of the CSN post-trophy specials said that PK fractured his foot late in the 02 season, played through it because they were in a pennant race with the Twinkies, and never had time to fully heal coming into 03.

[WCSox]

One of the CSN post-trophy specials said that PK fractured his foot late in the 02 season, played through it because they were in a pennant race with the Twinkies, and never had time to fully heal coming into 03.

 

I thought it was a foot fracture, but wasn't sure. Thanks.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

ChicagoSports.com said it was an arthritic hip when I googled it, so I don't know.

[Steff]

My understanding, for what its worth, is his hip is not arthritic. His hip joints are not aligned normally is what I've been told. Which basically requires certain strength and conditioning activity and what might be considered chiropractic type stuff.

 

 

I've never heard arthritic either and always degenerative joints.

 

WC, while Belle had/has the same thing his began to be problematic as an early teen. I don't believe PK's condition was found until his mid 20's.

[iamshack]

That says average to me, at best.

I'll say this: Konerko is thirty and plays like he's thirty four. He hasn't got too many good years left, and he's a prime "Trade him for good value before you're stuck with him at a bad value" candidate to me, but besides that -- I guess I've got to laugh at your Schuerholz crack. It's a cute rib. And since I make jokes about the players Kenny Williams thinks he can make into studs all the time, I guess it's well-played. Except for the fact that I gave him plenty of credit for his picks which are the only thing he does particularly well, so it was "accounted for all the errors he's bailed his infielders out of."

 

Range is not really that huge of a factor at the corner infield positions. More important is reaction time, which Paulie seems to be just fine with, despite his incredible lack of speed while running. The statistics which have been listed show that he tends to be average to above average, and considering how important it is for a first basemen to pick errant throws out of the dirt, and how much more frequently such a skill comes into play than plays which require great range, I think it's fairly evident that he is an above average defensive first basemen.

 

Offensively, Paulie is sixth among all mlb first basemen in home runs, eleventh in runs batted in, eighth in doubles, and twelvth in slugging this season. Over the last three seasons, he is third in home runs, fifth in runs batted in, and eleventh in slugging.

 

He is certainly not the premier first basemen in the league, nor is he a spring chicken. But given his relative health over the past few years, and the length and dollar amount of his contract, he's certainly not someone you're looking to dump.

 

I agree with you, he could be had if I was GM for the right price, but his identity on this club and with this organization makes it a tough sell for the fans.

Edited August 3, 2007 by iamshack

[Gregory Pratt]

From their Konerkomoter about whether or not he'd stay, November 30th, 2005:

 

Update: Paul Konerko and the White Sox have agreed to a five-year, $60 million deal that will keep the free-agent slugger in Chicago. Sox fans can now exhale.

• Nice world Paulie's living in. The Baltimore Orioles reportedly offer him $65 million over five years and he says, "No thanks. I don't like crab cakes."

 

The Baltimore Sun also said Konerko's agent Craig Landis will not make a counter-offer to the O's. That scraps their Plan B, which was to move their spring training home from Florida to Arizona to accommodate the free-agent slugger.

 

In all seriousness, we learn Konerko has an arthritic hip, which the Sox have known about for years and is the reason they initially were planning on offering just four yeas. Now they're willing to go five.

 

Is the Tribune wrong? I don't know. But that's where I got that.