Fields' HR

[BearSox]

Fields still looks pretty bad at bat more often than not, but he has talent, which experience will bring out. He is not a better 3Bman than Joe Crede and we know Joe can hit and field. Josh Fields should be in LF and Crede at 3B. Fields would be a good person at 3B when Joe is being rested or moves made in the late innings. We have given up some talented ball players in recent years that our own system developed and it's time to keep our own and build a championship team.

 

CF ?

LF Fields

DH Thome

IB Konedrko

RF Dye

3b Crede

C Pierzynski

2b ?

SS ?

 

The jury is still out on at least three positions for next year

 

If that were the case, Crede would bat 7th behind Pierzynski and Fields would probably be the worse 2 hitter in baseball.

[santo=dorf]

Joe Crede is a below average hitter with back concerns, an asshole of an agent, and one year left on his contract after stealing $5 million from the Sox this year. He has a replacement, so it makes perfect sense to non-tender him. We wasted $3.9 million on injury prone Pods and Erstad, and with Crede it would be no different.

 

Get rid of him.

[Bubba Philips]

Joe Crede is a below average hitter with back concerns, an asshole of an agent, and one year left on his contract after stealing $5 million from the Sox this year. He has a replacement, so it makes perfect sense to non-tender him. We wasted $3.9 million on injury prone Pods and Erstad, and with Crede it would be no different.

 

Get rid of him.

Tell me how this arbitration will work for 2008. Crede only played a third of a season

batted 216 4 hrs with a bad back. Wouldn't he be devalued from his 5 million contract due to his lack of production for the 07 season and iffy back. How much input could Boras prove or how much input does an agent at these hearings.. If we could get a low enough arbitration number we could trade him to a team more willing to obtain him at his real value.??????????????????? Oh wait if KW would trade him we would get another single A pitcher who may be ready or a complete bust in 3 years.

[santo=dorf]

If the Sox go to arbitration with Crede, they can not make an offer less than 80% of the previous year's salary. Since Crede is making $4.95 million this year, the smallest offer they can make is around $4 million. It does not matter how he did this year, he's going to get at least $4 million if they decide to go to arbitration.

[Dick Allen]

Since when is striking out the worst thing that a player ever did? With a little more seasoning Josh will be a walk machine, and his OBP will show that. And showing Crede's worst year as something that wasnt that bad is really showing how much you ignore certain numbers. How bout his paltry .717 OPS that year? Basically Fields has shown that he can produce at the same rate right now in his first season for ALOT less money. In july Fields improved his OBP, SLG BA and his walk rate. Crede is a slow, injured, soon to be expensive player. We need his salary to pick up a piece that we are really missing, at least before his back goes out again and that only option IS non-tendering him.

You're right about not looking at all the numbers. Joe's "paultry" .717 OPS in his worst season is really blown away by Fields current .723. I don't know how you can be so certain Fields will be a walk machine, and since he only played a couple of months and did improve a little in July, does that mean he will improve every month? Crede's back will be fine, and non-tendering him would be dumb. They could always trade him, or even if he gets $5 million next year, the idea of a guy coming off a lost season playing for a payday sounds pretty good to me. While Fields is not a horrible 3rd baseman, he has made some great plays, he still is not in Crede's class defensively. Maybe someday. Put Fields at 2B if you can"t bring the O-dog to town. And since you use June to July to peg improvement with Fields, if you use the exact same logic, isn't paying Crede $5 million a steal if he is healthy with his improvement every season?

Edited August 4, 2007 by Dick Allen

[CWSGuy406]

You're right about not looking at all the numbers. Joe's "paultry" .717 OPS in his worst season is really blown away by Fields current .723.

 

Gotta love the comparison between Crede's second full season in the bigs to Fields' first 200 at-bats as a major leaguer. That's a definite apples-to-apples comp right there...

 

I do agree with you about Crede, though. Non-tendering him would be selling very very low on a pretty decent player (when healthy). I don't want Crede here long-term, but non-tendering him seems really pointless. Where can the Sox spend $5 million better anyways? Fields can play LF or RF for the first couple months of next season -- I don't think it will be a huge adjustment for him especially because he seems to be a pretty good athlete.

[Bubba Philips]

If the Sox go to arbitration with Crede, they can not make an offer less than 80% of the previous year's salary. Since Crede is making $4.95 million this year, the smallest offer they can make is around $4 million. It does not matter how he did this year, he's going to get at least $4 million if they decide to go to arbitration.

Thanks, player union won a big concession for the players there. WHen is the deadline for arbitration. I'm sure the sox WON'T WANT to make an offer before they can see he can play or if he's capable of being the joe of old! If we can sign him we need to find a place for Fields in the outfield or at second if he can play either position effectively.

Edited August 4, 2007 by forrestg

[Dick Allen]

Gotta love the comparison between Crede's second full season in the bigs to Fields' first 200 at-bats as a major leaguer. That's a definite apples-to-apples comp right there...

 

I do agree with you about Crede, though. Non-tendering him would be selling very very low on a pretty decent player (when healthy). I don't want Crede here long-term, but non-tendering him seems really pointless. Where can the Sox spend $5 million better anyways? Fields can play LF or RF for the first couple months of next season -- I don't think it will be a huge adjustment for him especially because he seems to be a pretty good athlete.

Then compare Crede's first 200 AB. If Fields can be projected an All Star, Crede would be a first ballot HOFer. I just picked out Crede's worst statistical season because prior to September 2005 he was thought of a little less than Brian Anderson on this board. Fields puts up similar numbers with a little less defensively and a lot more Ks and he's projected to be an All Star. I don't understand.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

That is a very, very bold statement, and very possibly not true....

According to the doctor, he should be better than ever. Its a one year contract not a lot of money baseball wise that we are talking about. Non tender should not happen.

[CWSGuy406]

Fields puts up similar numbers with a little less defensively and a lot more Ks and he's projected to be an All Star.

 

Is somebody in this thread really projecting him to be a perennial All-Star? I don't really care to comment about that, but as far as a Crede vs Fields comparison, I'd be pretty dissappointed if Fields can't top Crede's offensive numbers over the next six seasons. Crede had some power but that's about it. Fields' last season-and-a-half in AAA and the majors suggest that he can be a .260/.330/.450. As far as being an All-Star caliber player? I think he's capable of having a couple seasons where he puts up All-Star numbers, but I doubt he's going to be David Wright.

[santo=dorf]

Then compare Crede's first 200 AB. If Fields can be projected an All Star, Crede would be a first ballot HOFer. I just picked out Crede's worst statistical season because prior to September 2005 he was thought of a little less than Brian Anderson on this board. Fields puts up similar numbers with a little less defensively and a lot more Ks and he's projected to be an All Star. I don't understand.

Joe Crede's first 227 PA's to Josh Fields' first 228 PA's

Josh: .232/.303/.420 10 HR, 32 RBI's 71 K's

Crede: .263/.295/.447 10 HR, 37 RBI's 45 K's

 

There's really not too much of a difference with the exception of Crede having a better average and typical crap walk rate and fewer strikeouts.

 

You underrate Fields too much.

[Dick Allen]

Did you expect the doctor that preformed the surgery to say "We really f***ed this guy up. He won't even be able to play catch again"?

 

There is a reason Boras tried everything he could before having Joe go under the knife. If there was a guarantee that Joe would be fine after the surgery, he would have had it after 2006, and had all of 2007 and 2008 to play at full health to get the biggest deal he could when that contract year comes up.

 

Any time you cut into the back, it's a scary thing.

 

In terms of brining Joe back, it all depends on how the payroll is going to shake out. If the Sox go out and spend the money to try and make this team competitive( I think they are going to) then you bring Joe back, give Fields every chance to learn LF, and see where you stand with Joe after 2008.

 

However, if they are going into re-build more, you keep Josh at 3rd.

Crede had the procedure done that the White Sox originally suggested he have done. From what I have read, as far as back surgeries go, its not all that risky, but of course anything can go wrong. I would be absolutely shocked if the White Sox non-tendered him.

[WCSox]

If they don't they are fools.

 

No, if they don't fix their bullpen, they're fools. And if JR & Co. deem that, after fixing that and either extending Dye or finding a replacement, they're out of cash, it's perfectly reasonable to make Joe the odd man out.

 

I can't wait to see all the guys who complain about the White Sox swinging for the fences all the time and not worrying about getting on base who think Fields is an All Star, b**** and moan about him next season

 

Like it or not, the Sox are going to have to cut ties with Crede at the end of next season. I fully expect Fields to go through his share of growing pains and am aware of the fact that he may not pan out as an every-day major league 3B. I'd love to see Joe in Chi-town for one last season with Fields in LF. But if the Sox are planning on slashing payroll next season (as I expect them to), I imagine that paying $5 million to a one-year rent-a-player who is coming off of back surgery and whose replacement looks like he can play competently at the ML level wouldn't be a priority of theirs. And I wouldn't blame them one bit if they released him or traded his rights.

Edited August 5, 2007 by WCSox

[3E8]

Maybe as Josh hits more home runs he will stop sprinting out of the box. I love his hustle but that just looks funny.

[RockRaines]

You're right about not looking at all the numbers. Joe's "paultry" .717 OPS in his worst season is really blown away by Fields current .723. I don't know how you can be so certain Fields will be a walk machine, and since he only played a couple of months and did improve a little in July, does that mean he will improve every month?

Can you think of anything funnier than you dismissing his not even full season of at bats and then admitting that they are a full view of what he will be.

[Dogfood22]

I just get a really good feeling about Josh, not like a boner or anything but a really warm feeling in my heart of hearts that makes me want to go out and buy his jersey. He's got a lot of pop and takes bad pitches nicely. As of this point he has played 383 games of professional baseball, and those 383 games are after playing football in college.

 

Like I said, I just have a real good feeling about Josh. He seems to have good instincts in the field and is very athletic, and I think defensively he'll become almost as good as Crede going to his right and better than Crede going to his left. I also think that over the next couple of years his K totals will drop to around 100/year or so, his BB totals will climb quite a bit, he'll become more selective at the plate, and his home run totals will climb into the 30+ range. I think that 2-3 years from now, Josh will be looked at as the best position player on the team. Josh is the only position prospect we have, if you still want to call him that, that I'm excited about at all except Carter, but even Carter is very raw and very far away, and anything can happen between Kanny and Charlotte.

 

In short: f*** The World, Josh!

[Dick Allen]

Can you think of anything funnier than you dismissing his not even full season of at bats and then admitting that they are a full view of what he will be.

Yes. Implying that the second month being a little better than the first month of a guy's career means he will do nothing but improve. I'm not dismissing anything on Crede. It takes time. You think the Sox have one option, non tendering Crede, because of all Fields has shown in his 2 months. I'm saying he hasn't shown all that much to be a regular 3rd baseman on a championship calibur team. Crede's already done that. His $5 million or so arb figure isn't going to blow the budget. The Sox also had another ex football player player moved to thirdbase who was a very highly thought of prospect. He hit the scene and initially had better numbers offensively than either Fields or Crede. Then it just all fell apart. He is now the team's GM, although in all fairness the move to 3b may have helped bring down his career.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

Yes. Implying that the second month being a little better than the first month of a guy's career means he will do nothing but improve. I'm not dismissing anything on Crede. It takes time. You think the Sox have one option, non tendering Crede, because of all Fields has shown in his 2 months. I'm saying he hasn't shown all that much to be a regular 3rd baseman on a championship calibur team. Crede's already done that. His $5 million or so arb figure isn't going to blow the budget.

 

No, but if his back doesnt come around like expected, he has a setback, etc. then the Sox are stuck with an unmoveable player who they are paying for two years in a row. Its risky to bring him back and hope that all is well, despite what his doctor is saying.

[beck72]

No, but if his back doesnt come around like expected, he has a setback, etc. then the Sox are stuck with an unmoveable player who they are paying for two years in a row. Its risky to bring him back and hope that all is well, despite what his doctor is saying.

By all accounts the chances of Crede coming back and playing at full strength are better than getting something of value for him via trade. And the chances of using that $4, 5 mill on a player better than Joe are not very good either.

[29andPoplar]

I suspect they will work out a one year deal with Crede, let him play in the spring and see if he's healthy and then aggressively try to trade him for the best package they can get. If they end up keeping him for all of 2008 and he walks, I presume they get draft picks so it's not all bad.

 

Personally I doubt they non tender him but who knows.

[beck72]

Hey good post beck. I tend to agree, the Sox need to target a potential leadoff guy and make it happen. Williams and Hahn can't seem to sync up with Tampa mgmt. though. Not sure why, Tampa has been making trades.

 

Personally I would like to see better players than Owens. Jerry is a decent player but I don't see winning a championship with him as a key piece. Philly has several CF prospects, maybe they can pry one from there. Also I agree on the SS situation, I hope they aren't backed into a corner and forced to bring back Uribe. They need more speed, on base skills, and most of all consistency.

Tampa certainly needs pitching--starters in particular. They've been making additions to the bullpen. TB should take a flier on a guy like Sisco or Masset [though the sox seem to think Nick will turn it around.

[Chisoxfn]

Fields had a nice double today...but also a bonehead error on a popup in foul territory and a brutal baserunning mistake (almost had a second base running gaffe but he got away with it and was able to get back in time).

[whitesox94]

If Feilds had 600 AB's this year, he would have around 27 HR an 90 RBI pretty impressive

[southsider2k5]

I have seen enough out of Fields to make him a starter for me in 08, whether that is in LF or 3B doesn't matter to me. The kid has potential, he just needs his ABs to round off the rough edges.

[WCSox]

Crede's already done that. His $5 million or so arb figure isn't going to blow the budget.

 

Keep in mind that the Sox are giving Mark a $4.5 million raise next year. In addition, Jon will be making $2 million more. And JD is going to cost more than $6 million if they extend him. Unless they're able to unload Thome's salary, I can easily see them running into budget issues. Are they really going to field a $100 million payroll with declining season ticket sales?

 

I have seen enough out of Fields to make him a starter for me in 08, whether that is in LF or 3B doesn't matter to me. The kid has potential, he just needs his ABs to round off the rough edges.

 

He made a couple brutal stupid mistakes today but, even with the strikeouts, I agree.