Another paradox

[GoSox05]

You've gone from wanting to ban all religion, to saying religion is pushy, to saying someone invited you to Church once?!

 

No, TexSox was saying that people don't object to being asked to a ball game or a movie, but they do when someone invites them to church. I was just wondering why someone would want to invite me or someone else to a church.

 

 

I still think that religion is pushy though.

[knightni]

Well, I will pipe in here. I personally do not feel that one needs God, or any sort of religion, to know right from wrong. I like to think I act rightly not just out of fear, but of an internal desire to not hurt people.

 

Of course, that internal desire may be directly linked to God, in some peoples' eyes.

 

Your internal desire was taught to you as a youngster by your environment which had a value system.

 

 

 

[GoSox05]

How would you know "right" or "wrong" without a value system?

 

Basically, you'd do whatever you wanted until someone with a value system came to arrest you.

 

 

So your saying that if there was no law or religious value system, that you would have no problem killing someone?

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Your internal desire was taught to you as a youngster by your environment which had a value system.

Yes. That is true. But its not necessarily derived from religion or faith.

 

[kapkomet]

So your saying that if there was no law or religious value system, that you would have no problem killing someone?

Where does a value system come from? And parents and upbringing doesn't count...

[NorthSideSox72]

Where does a value system come from? And parents and upbringing doesn't count...

You just eliminated the most logical answer.

 

[Texsox]

No, TexSox was saying that people don't object to being asked to a ball game or a movie, but they do when someone invites them to church. I was just wondering why someone would want to invite me or someone else to a church.

 

 

I still think that religion is pushy though.

 

Count up how many messages about religion you receive this week, versus beer ads, and tell me which is more pushy . . .

 

I agree some zealots are too pushy and it turns me off as well. But the mainstream follower probably is too timid to invite you.

[GoSox05]

Where does a value system come from? And parents and upbringing doesn't count...

 

 

I understand that there are value systems. I just don't think they have to come from religion or a goverment. I think humans can learn respect for each other without being told.

[Texsox]

You just eliminated the most logical answer.

 

Not necessarily because their values had to come from somewhere.

[NorthSideSox72]

Not necessarily because their values had to come from somewhere.

Again, not necessarily from religion, faith or deities.

 

[GoSox05]

Count up how many messages about religion you receive this week, versus beer ads, and tell me which is more pushy . . .

 

I agree some zealots are too pushy and it turns me off as well. But the mainstream follower probably is too timid to invite you.

 

 

I will get way more beer ad's for sure, but I've never seen a beer ad that says i'm gonna burn in hell for being gay. I have see church signs that say that. I realize this is a small faction, but it still is there and it is what bothers me.

[Texsox]

I will get way more beer ad's for sure, but I've never seen a beer ad that says i'm gonna burn in hell for being gay. I have see church signs that say that. I realize this is a small faction, but it still is there and it is what bothers me.

 

I would not attend that Church, but that doesn't stop me from attending the one next door. I experience the same emotions when you try to paint me with that stroke as any Sox fan when we get compared to some idiot running on the field and assaulting players. I don't know of anyone who attends a Church who doesn't disagree with some of the teachings. It would be impossible to match up 100% with everything a given Church teaches. I know their are pro death penalty Catholics and Pro-Choice Baptists.

 

Our book stores are filled with self help books. Each of these, in a sense, is creating a religion. I prefer a more time tested variety. I don't think my views should be dismissed because I attend Church and I find it sad that it would make someone sick how I choose to spend my Sunday mornings and occassional Saturday nights. Perhaps if I was getting drunk at a bar it would make someone feel better.

[kapkomet]

I will get way more beer ad's for sure, but I've never seen a beer ad that says i'm gonna burn in hell for being gay. I have see church signs that say that. I realize this is a small faction, but it still is there and it is what bothers me.

Seriously... for all the joking I've been doing with you today - churches that are like that I have a problem with, and that's speaking from a Christian point of view. I have a serious issue when people cram stuff down my throat. It's not my place to judge you... but it's my place to say - hey - I hope you can put aside your differences and learn about what the church SHOULD BE about when humans aren't involved. That's between you and God. If you don't believe in God, that's your choice, too. I've been messing with you all day, but I'm serious when I say the things you do and the choices you make are yours alone. I can wish you to do other things, but I'm not going to comdemn you for it.

 

That's the biggest difference between "religion" and "church". "Church" is supposed to be about your relationship with God, and how you relate to Him, and NOTHING more other then being associated with people who view things that way. The second anything starts interfereing with that, it becomes hypocritical and wrong, because we as people are not to judge.

 

If someone invites you to go and it's not for their own purposes, then it's ok. And it's still your choice. If they're trying to get you to go and if you don't you're "going to burn in hell", well so are they, if they are holding you to a standard that they cannot hold to themselves.

 

There's my serious soap box of the day for you.

 

[GoSox05]

I would not attend that Church, but that doesn't stop me from attending the one next door. I experience the same emotions when you try to paint me with that stroke as any Sox fan when we get compared to some idiot running on the field and assaulting players. I don't know of anyone who attends a Church who doesn't disagree with some of the teachings. It would be impossible to match up 100% with everything a given Church teaches. I know their are pro death penalty Catholics and Pro-Choice Baptists.

 

Our book stores are filled with self help books. Each of these, in a sense, is creating a religion. I prefer a more time tested variety. I don't think my views should be dismissed because I attend Church and I find it sad that it would make someone sick how I choose to spend my Sunday mornings and occassional Saturday nights. Perhaps if I was getting drunk at a bar it would make someone feel better.

 

 

I'm not saying that you or your church are like that. I'm just saying that part of religion can upset someone and make them have a negative view on religion.

[kapkomet]

I'm not saying that you or your church are like that. I'm just saying that part of religion can upset someone and make them have a negative view on religion.

We agree! Woot!

 

I really need to get some work done.

[GoSox05]

We agree! Woot!

 

I really need to get some work done.

 

yeah i'll agree on the work part. I think I may get fired today for arguing online. How do you explain that one.

[Texsox]

I'm not saying that you or your church are like that. I'm just saying that part of religion can upset someone and make them have a negative view on religion.

 

Too many people pick a small example and blow it way out of proportion while trying to portray the average person going to Church as some wild eyed zealot speaking in tongues.

 

 

 

[longshot7]

weird - for once I agree with kapkomet. I don't see what's wrong with what these officers did.

[Texsox]

weird - for once I agree with kapkomet. I don't see what's wrong with what these officers did.

 

My organization takes the same stance in regards to our uniforms and insignia. We simply are not allowed to use that image for whomever and whatever organization we choose to support. That would imply an official endorsement where one does not exist. I can identify myself as an employee and make a statement, but I could not appear in uniform and make that same statement. Seems fair to me.