Is the ozzie bashing getting old?

[rangercal]

I think it is.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I'm not saying we should fire Ozzie, but as far as an in-game manager goes the guy is below average. When he got hired I worried about the fact that he had no managing experience, and it shows sometimes.

[rangercal]

I wonder how many people I rick rolled so far.

[SkokieSox]

I wonder how many people I rick rolled so far.

 

Everybody's an expert... Really, I don't have anybody in mind who would be better, or who players would want to play for more.

[Wanne]

Everybody's an expert... Really, I don't have anybody in mind who would be better, or who players would want to play for more.

 

I really wish Carlton Fisk had more actual managing/coaching experience. In my perfect world he'd be brought in to replace Walker and be Ozzie's replacement down the road.

[RibbieRubarb]

What I think is funny is that after EVERY loss the Ozzie Bashers are out in full-force to tell us how he blew the game. It's all his responsibility. But when the Sox win they say Ozzie had nothing to do with it.

 

 

[kwolf68]

 

Yes....no one could manage this team to the playoffs. Jerry Owens? Andy Gonzalez? Erstad? Terraro? Cintron? a couple rooks playing the infield? A bullpen that until recently has been a mess? Several players (Paulie, Dye) who had atrocious slumps earlier in the season? Reliance on aging injury proned vets?

 

Take away the starting rotation and this is not a very good team. I like some of the pieces, but we are relying on some very marginal talent at this point. Our GOOD talent...are basically bangers who if they aren't hitting homers aren't doing s*** for us anyway...and of course that very nice rotation.

[kapkomet]

/rolly

 

[southsider2k5]

Bush>Ozzie?

[Yossarian]

Oh well, at least as far as I can tell no one is getting banned for having an opinion. That is not the case on another site. Concerning Ozzie, I stand my ground. I like his philosphy, and think he's a good motivator when he has a team that buys into his ideas. In 05, he had a team that could execute his game plans. The last two years that is not the case. As a game day manager, he can be downright awful at times. Overall he's a darn sight better than Manuel or Bevington, but not Lopez, Stanky or Tanner. That's the way I see it.

[ShoeLessRob]

Bush>Ozzie?

Lol, that made me laugh.

[Gene Honda Civic]

What I think is funny is that after EVERY loss the Ozzie Bashers are out in full-force to tell us how he blew the game. It's all his responsibility. But when the Sox win they say Ozzie had nothing to do with it.

Ozzie did nothing wrong today, and pulling Buehrle before getting through 5 is out of character for him, but it was the right call on a night when he really didn't have it/lost it very quickly.

 

I think it's funny that anyone that criticizes Ozzie is considered some commie fascist automaton.

[southsider2k5]

Ozzie did nothing wrong today, and pulling Buehrle before getting through 5 is out of character for him, but it was the right call on a night when he really didn't have it/lost it very quickly.

 

I think it's funny that anyone that criticizes Ozzie is considered some commie fascist automaton.

 

I just think it is funny that the all mighty and powerful Ozzie Guillen is responsible for every scourge known to man-kind, and even some we haven't discovered yet.

[CWSGuy406]

I just think it is funny that the all mighty and powerful Ozzie Guillen is responsible for every scourge known to man-kind, and even some we haven't discovered yet.

 

I find it funnier that the people who bash the Ozzie bashers never actually defend Ozzie's moves, rather they bring up irrelevant BS and mainly stir the pot.

 

And I'd also say 99% of the Ozzie bashers never put ALL responsibility on Ozzie. But when a manager makes moves that are so blatantly terrible -- like bunt with Josh Fields two nights in a row with the Victor Martinez' scorching arm behind homeplate -- they deserve to be called out.

[AirScott]

I'm not saying we should fire Ozzie, but as far as an in-game manager goes the guy is below average. When he got hired I worried about the fact that he had no managing experience, and it shows sometimes.

I find it funnier that the people who bash the Ozzie bashers never actually defend Ozzie's moves, rather they bring up irrelevant BS and mainly stir the pot.

 

And I'd also say 99% of the Ozzie bashers never put ALL responsibility on Ozzie. But when a manager makes moves that are so blatantly terrible -- like bunt with Josh Fields two nights in a row with the Victor Martinez' scorching arm behind homeplate -- they deserve to be called out.

I just think a lot of moves he makes are overly criticized here, when it really makes no sense to disagree. One example I can remember now is somebody saying Ozzie should've had Jermaine Dye playing deep on a play that ended up being a go-ahead double. Problem is, the hitter was Jason Bartlett...and you will never find anyone who would move the outfield back for Jason Bartlett. There are still examples of him not doing things he should have, too. The ball that hit off Pods' head in left field, after he air-mailed a throw that could've nailed the tying run at home, is one example -- I think Erstad should've been in left, and Brian Anderson should've been in center. I thought the only reason to have Anderson on the roster was as a defensive replacement...and the best time to use a defensive replacement is in the bottom of the ninth with a 2-1 lead.

 

Another thing: in the last two seasons, Ozzie has had some problems that are just about unprecedented. Last season, it was handling Javier Vazquez, who would cruise for four innings and then implode in the fifth, and having his best option in center field being Rob Mackowiak. This season, it was the total unreliability of the bullpen from the first Cubs series and on, and every single hitter starting the season very poorly.

[southsider2k5]

I find it funnier that the people who bash the Ozzie bashers never actually defend Ozzie's moves, rather they bring up irrelevant BS and mainly stir the pot.

 

And I'd also say 99% of the Ozzie bashers never put ALL responsibility on Ozzie. But when a manager makes moves that are so blatantly terrible -- like bunt with Josh Fields two nights in a row with the Victor Martinez' scorching arm behind homeplate -- they deserve to be called out.

 

Yeah they dont ever defend his moves... I do have to laugh when you tried to downplay how much blame Guillen gets for stuff. I have seen Guillen blamed for everything from minor league recalls, to players failing in the clutch, to trades that aren't made etc, etc. I used to argue, but to be honest, you can only bash your head on a wall so long before you realize that there really isn't a point to it.

 

If you want to b**** about Fields bunting go ahead. For my money I want to see Thome, Konerko, Dye and company up with a guy in scoring position at the end of a game, instead of depending on a rookie who strikes out about once every 3ABs, and then having the runner probably still stranded at first base. You do realize that Fields has more Ks than hits right (70 tyo 52)? So if you want to strictly play the numbers, there are better chances of a K, than Josh getting a hit, by a wide margin. But you guys keep thinking Ozzie has no idea what he is doing, especially when he is putting his 4 best clutch hitters (AJ included) in a position to win a game. I believe that would be what Fathom calls giving his players the best chances to succeed.

[CWSGuy406]

If you want to b**** about Fields bunting go ahead. For my money I want to see Thome, Konerko, Dye and company up with a guy in scoring position at the end of a game, instead of depending on a rookie who strikes out about once every 3ABs, and then having the runner probably still stranded at first base. You do realize that Fields has more Ks than hits right (70 tyo 52)? So if you want to strictly play the numbers, there are better chances of a K, than Josh getting a hit, by a wide margin. But you guys keep thinking Ozzie has no idea what he is doing, especially when he is putting his 4 best clutch hitters (AJ included) in a position to win a game. I believe that would be what Fathom calls giving his players the best chances to succeed.

 

Ozzie has clammored for speed since the minute he got here. He had a perfect chance to use it -- Borowski with an awful move to first, Victor Martinez horrid's arm behind homeplate and Jerry Owens on first. So what do you do? First pitch bunt sign from Fields. Don't even give Owens ONE shot to steal it on his own -- TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW, for cripes sake.

 

And who says we're relying on Fields to get a hit? Everybody wanted Owens to have a shot to steal second outright so Fields could get him over to third. Really not that tough, don't know why you're making it that way...

 

But then again, I understand that Ozzie can do no wrong in some eyes, so...

Edited August 11, 2007 by CWSGuy406

[southsider2k5]

Ozzie has clammored for speed since the minute he got here. He had a perfect chance to use it -- Borowski with an awful move to first, Victor Martinez horrid's arm behind homeplate and Jerry Owens on first. So what do you do? First pitch bunt sign from Fields. Don't even give Owens ONE shot to steal it on his own -- TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW, for cripes sake.

 

And who says we're relying on Fields to get a hit? Everybody wanted Owens to have a shot to steal second outright so Fields could get him over to third. Really not that tough, don't know why you're making it that way...

 

But then again, I understand that Ozzie can do no wrong in some eyes, so...

 

You mean Victor Martinez who threw out half of our steal attempts in the Cleveland series?

 

But then again, I understand Ozzie can do no right in some eyes, so...

[CWSGuy406]

You mean Victor Martinez who threw out half of our steal attempts in the Cleveland series?

 

No way -- in the whole series?

 

I think Martinez' career of suck behind homeplate and his general long throwing motion, AND having Jerry Owens on first, AND having Joe Borowski on the mound is a little more relevant, but maybe you're right -- maybe V-Mart is, in fact, Johnny Bench, based on three games.

[29andPoplar]

Guillen explained the move to the press. He said V. Martinez has been throwing better and Owens isn't a sure thing to steal. Further he said he wanted a safer way to get Owens into scoring position and a bunt was it. Finally he said he wanted a guy in scoring position with his best hitters coming up to drive the guy in. Doesn't seem too far fetched to me. Conservative, yes, but not far fetched.

 

 

 

 

[CWSGuy406]

Further he said he wanted a safer way to get Owens into scoring position and a bunt was it.

 

That's part of what I'm calling out. Why is Ozzie "playing it safe"? We're ten games out, take a chance. This is amplified, to me, because he did it two nights and a row, and IIRC, both times the bunt was called for on the first pitch. So you're not going to give Owens but one shot to steal it on his own?

[southsider2k5]

No way -- in the whole series?

 

I think Martinez' career of suck behind homeplate and his general long throwing motion, AND having Jerry Owens on first, AND having Joe Borowski on the mound is a little more relevant, but maybe you're right -- maybe V-Mart is, in fact, Johnny Bench, based on three games.

 

Yeah I forgot Ozzie doesn't know a thing. He is the biggest idiot to ever win a World Series, and all of the people who have never managed before know way more.

 

This is exactly why no one bothers defending Ozzie on here anymore is because people turn into a torch bearing lynch mob of smartasses anytime his name is mentioned. Your posts are exactly what I was referring to when I said there is no point in even discussion Ozzie with you guys, because I know if I defend A MOVE Ozzie makes, that means I support every single little move the man has ever done. This is exactly why no one wastes there time on this subject anymore. With logic like that, there is no point.

[29andPoplar]

That's part of what I'm calling out. Why is Ozzie "playing it safe"? We're ten games out, take a chance. This is amplified, to me, because he did it two nights and a row, and IIRC, both times the bunt was called for on the first pitch. So you're not going to give Owens but one shot to steal it on his own?

 

One of the biggest reasons this team is 10 games out is because the players haven't executed. The #3 and #4 hitters come up (and subsequently the #5 hitter) and none can get a base hit.

 

I don't recall the second game, but if I read the papers correctly ... wasn't the bunt attempt popped up and then Owens got the green light to steal?

 

A bunt is almost always called for the first pitch though, so that aspect of it is, to me, immaterial.

[CWSGuy406]

This is exactly why no one bothers defending Ozzie on here anymore is because people turn into a torch bearing lynch mob of smartasses anytime his name is mentioned.

 

Lynch mob smartasses? When people can provide some reasonable content, like 29thandPoplar, we can have reasonable discussion/debate.

 

But when you resort to the same irrelevant BS that pops up in just about every Ozzie thread:

 

Yeah I forgot Ozzie doesn't know a thing. He is the biggest idiot to ever win a World Series, and all of the people who have never managed before know way more.

 

You get 'smartassery'. You get what you deserve. Tell me how Ozzie winning a ring holds ANY relevance to an individual move made in August of 2007.

 

Oh, right...

[CWSGuy406]

I don't recall the second game, but if I read the papers correctly ... wasn't the bunt attempt popped up and then Owens got the green light to steal?

 

Yeah, and Owens subsequently stole second without a throw from Martinez.

 

Owens is stealing bases at an 84% clip this year. If he can't trust Owens to nab second in that situation (awful defensive catcher behind the plate, a soft-tosser with a below average move to first on the mound), what good is Owens to the Sox?