And That's a White Sox Loser

[TitoMB345]

Ryan Howard

David Ortiz

Albert Pujols

Alfonso Soriano

Lance Berkman

Jermaine Dye

Jim Thome

Travis Hafner

Andruw Jones

Carlos Beltran

Adam Dunn

Frank Thomas

Carlos Delgado

Aramis Ramirez

Troy Glaus

Jason Giambi

Manny Ramirez

Alex Rodriguez

Paul Konerko

Bill Hall

Nick Swisher

Jason Bay

Richie Sexson

Justin Morneau

Matt Holliday

Vladimir Guerrero

Raul Ibanez

Mark Teixeira

Vernon Wells

Chase Utley

Adam LaRoche

Torii Hunter

Joe Crede

+ Prince Fielder

 

Is Josh Fields ready to join this list of players?

 

I'm sorry, but what is the relation of these players?

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

I'm sorry, but what is the relation of these players?

 

My guess is players who hit 30 HR last year.

[3E8]

Gavin Floyd doesn't have it. I don't understand the need to "see him" quote as many times as possible end quote so that we can get a "good idea" of what we have in him. How many more outings like this is he allowed?

Did you watch the start in Detroit? He dominated a good-hitting Tigers club and showed stuff that you would expect from a number four overall pick, Floyd indeed 'had it'. Hawk considers it the best stuff we've seen from any of our starters this season, and Steve Stone has mentioned multiple times this past week how impressed he was. I think those of us who back Gavin realize what a coup this could be for the Sox, if he can work things out and be a just semblance of the pitcher we saw in Detroit. It would give us a solid back-of-the-rotation starter for the next two seasons at a total of no more than $800k. That adds a lot of flexibility to our team.

 

From my perspective it feels like you have an axe to grind. Are you just rooting against him just to back up something you posted on a message board before the season started? I don't know how you feel about these guys, but there are other young players who have gotten a chance recently to prove themselves (Anderson, Masset, Owens) more than Floyd has and haven't been great, and I do not know that had they worked out it would bring the same upside to our team. Floyd at this point hasn't had more than two consecutive starts still. So my thinking is, we're clearly out of contention, put Gavin in the rotation the rest of the year which will be about 6 or 7 starts. That way we'll know for certain if he can work with Coop and make strides to actually harness his talent with some sort of consistency, or if he is just mentally/physically incapable of being a successful pitcher at the major league level.

Edited August 12, 2007 by 3E8

[joejoesox]

So my thinking is, we're clearly out of contention, put Gavin in the rotation the rest of the year which will be about 6 or 7 starts. That way we'll know for certain if he can work with Coop and make strides to actually harness his talent with some sort of consistency, or if he is just mentally/physically incapable of being a successful pitcher at the major league level.

 

QFMFT, agree 100%

[Dick Allen]

I''ll only say this once....Paul Konerko gets full days off, he wasn't going to pinch hit (ozzie wanted to give him a rest and a full rest in baseball means you don't play at all in the game...even a pinch hit appearance). For guys that sit more often he's happy to pinch hit, but in Paulie's case you will rarely if ever see it because he takes a day off so rarely.

 

Hell I'm surprised Ozzie's even managing at this point, if I were running the team the only thing I'd be managing is the development of the team and whatever served me best for 2008 (and I actually think Ozzie has done a good job with that).

He just had a couple of days off a week or 2 ago. I wonder if he's fully healthy.

[Dick Allen]

Did you watch the start in Detroit? He dominated a good-hitting Tigers club and showed stuff that you would expect from a number four overall pick, Floyd indeed 'had it'. Hawk considers it the best stuff we've seen from any of our starters this season, and Steve Stone has mentioned multiple times this past week how impressed he was. I think those of us who back Gavin realize what a coup this could be for the Sox, if he can work things out and be a just semblance of the pitcher we saw in Detroit. It would give us a solid back-of-the-rotation starter for the next two seasons at a total of no more than $800k. That adds a lot of flexibility to our team.

 

From my perspective it feels like you have an axe to grind. Are you just rooting against him just to back up something you posted on a message board before the season started? I don't know how you feel about these guys, but there are other young players who have gotten a chance recently to prove themselves (Anderson, Masset, Owens) more than Floyd has and haven't been great, and I do not know that had they worked out it would bring the same upside to our team. Floyd at this point hasn't had more than two consecutive starts still. So my thinking is, we're clearly out of contention, put Gavin in the rotation the rest of the year which will be about 6 or 7 starts. That way we'll know for certain if he can work with Coop and make strides to actually harness his talent with some sort of consistency, or if he is just mentally/physically incapable of being a successful pitcher at the major league level.

For a guy with supposedly great "stuff", Floyd certainly gets whacked around a lot. His walk rate is actually not bad so far this year, much better than its been in previous big league tries, but 10 homers in 24 innings, including 7 in 11 innings at USCF, and a .361 BAA indicates to me he isn't worthy of more starts. He has had a great start each of the seasons he has pitched in the big leagues, yet always snaps back to what he is. He did pitch well against Detroit, but he certainly caught them at the right time, as they were struggling and Rodriquez and Sheffield were out of the line-up. They lit him up previously. I just have a hard time understanding why he is deserving of an extended look, but others need more time or aren't worthy. I understand Floyd is going to be out of options, but we are seeing why he is out of options.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Dick Allen

[BearSox]

We are the only team in baseball that would have Darin freaking Erstad bad 5th...

[Yossarian]

I was glad Floyd had that strong start against the Tigers, and hoped that he could right his own personal ship. Last night it was business as usual. The kid has no "it". Almost everyone it seems, has blinders on. Floyd is what he is. Lousy, and that's being charitable.

[BearSox]

I was glad Floyd had that strong start against the Tigers, and hoped that he could right his own personal ship. Last night it was business as usual. The kid has no "it". Almost everyone it seems, has blinders on. Floyd is what he is. Lousy, and that's being charitable.

I think ball-less is a better word to describe Gavin. No confidence what-so-ever.

[GreenSox]

I don't know how you feel about these guys, but there are other young players who have gotten a chance recently to prove themselves (Anderson, Masset, Owens) more than Floyd has and haven't been great, and I do not know that had they worked out it would bring the same upside to our team. Floyd at this point hasn't had more than two consecutive starts still. So my thinking is, we're clearly out of contention, put Gavin in the rotation the rest of the year which will be about 6 or 7 starts. That way we'll know for certain if he can work with Coop and make strides to actually harness his talent with some sort of consistency, or if he is just mentally/physically incapable of being a successful pitcher at the major league level.

 

I agree - he has talent, so use him the rest of the year. Let's see what he has.

Plenty of young players, including pitchers, need a fair chance. We're out of it, so we can give him the chance.

[Gregory Pratt]

For a guy with supposedly great "stuff", Floyd certainly gets whacked around a lot. His walk rate is actually not bad so far this year, much better than its been in previous big league tries, but 10 homers in 24 innings, including 7 in 11 innings at USCF, and a .361 BAA indicates to me he isn't worthy of more starts. He has had a great start each of the seasons he has pitched in the big leagues, yet always snaps back to what he is. He did pitch well against Detroit, but he certainly caught them at the right time, as they were struggling and Rodriquez and Sheffield were out of the line-up. They lit him up previously. I just have a hard time understanding why he is deserving of an extended look, but others need more time or aren't worthy. I understand Floyd is going to be out of options, but we are seeing why he is out of options.

 

truth

[AirScott]

We are the only team in baseball that would have Darin freaking Erstad bad 5th...

The Sox are definitely unlike a lot of teams since Guillen was hired, that's for sure. And how many guys have we had in the lineup since 2005 who will be 0-for-3 when Hawk says they're due, only they aren't due yet because their batting averages are well below .250?

[Dick Allen]

We are the only team in baseball that would have Darin freaking Erstad bad 5th...

No, there are a couple of American Legion teams he could bat 5th on. Against right handers. I don't mind Erstad, especially at his price, but he's a utility guy now. If he plays a lot he will get injured, and he's not a leadoff guy or a 5th place hitter at this stage. If he were used for what he is, not for what he was 7 years ago, I think he could still be a contributing player, definitely worth what he would get on the market. The problem is everyone in the White Sox organization still sees the guy who hit .350 and could run through walls. Make him the 4th OFer and back-up firstbaseman and use him as a defensive replacement or a guy to come in and get a bunt down, and now you're talking.

[Yossarian]

I agree - he has talent, so use him the rest of the year. Let's see what he has.

Plenty of young players, including pitchers, need a fair chance. We're out of it, so we can give him the chance.

Let me see if I can type and bang my head against the wall at the same time. I'm trying to remember a young pitcher getting as many chances, despite pitching as badly as Floyd has. The White Sox have some young players on the roster, and some down on the farm that make a fan hopeful. Gavin Floyd is not one of them.

 

[elrockinMT]

Fields in left next year is my hope. He is improving with the bat that's for sure. Floyd has been a disappointment, Good to see Jose getting back on track.

[Heads22]

For as much as Gavin not deserving the fifth spot, either does Haeger.

[whitesoxfan101]

For as much as Gavin not deserving the fifth spot, either does Haeger.

 

And none of our 3 guys at the front of the line in the minors (Gio, Egbert, Broadway) are ready IMO. In fact, the only guy you could even make a case for being ready right now is Eggy, so it's an interesting situation.

Edited August 12, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Gregory Pratt]

For as much as Gavin not deserving the fifth spot, either does Haeger.

 

Inconclusive.

[Heads22]

Inconclusive.

 

 

MLB: 0-1, 7.15, 8 G, 11.1 IP, 17 H, 3 HR, 8 BB, 1 K, .354 BAA

AAA: 5-12, 4.68, 19 G, 109.1 IP, 111 H, 10 HR, 60 BB, 98 K, .267 BAA (1.56 WHIP)

 

He needs time but not at the major league level.

[kwolf68]

For as much as Gavin not deserving the fifth spot, either does Haeger.

 

 

I agree totally. These folks thinking Haeger is the answer are funny.

[Capn12]

Haegar is just...not good. After the initial appeal of the knuckle is gone, he is a below average pitcher who gets slapped around at all levels. NOT the answer for the starting rotation.

[witesoxfan]

Haeger has absolutely no shot at being an above average major league pitcher. Gavin Floyd does. Add to it that Floyd is out of options, and Haeger has one more, and it makes absolutely no sense personnel wise to go with Haeger right now over Floyd.

 

 

[kwolf68]

Haegar is just...not good. After the initial appeal of the knuckle is gone, he is a below average pitcher who gets slapped around at all levels. NOT the answer for the starting rotation.

 

 

Not only that, but what also bothers me about the knuckler is the extra passed balls, extra wild pitches...it will be MUCH easier to steal on, the ball is a wildcard pitch all the way around. I give Haeger props for going to this pitch to try to get himself into the bigs because his conventional stuff isn't good enough, but at best he can be a relief guy...I say use him in long relief, carry an extra pitcher, and if it looks like he 'has the knuckler' working and he's not throwing every 3rd pitch to the backstop then let him pitch in relief.

 

Charlie Haeger in the rotation is hilarious to think about.

 

Outside of Mark, Javy and Garland the final 2 spots should be considered in this order

 

-Danks

-Count

-Broadway

-Floyd

-Gio

-Egbert

 

 

 

 

-Santos

-Haeger

[Dick Allen]

Haeger has absolutely no shot at being an above average major league pitcher. Gavin Floyd does.

Based on what?

[DBAHO]

Haeger has absolutely no shot at being an above average major league pitcher. Gavin Floyd does.

Based on what?

Well I'd guess on his stuff, the fact that not many knuckleballers have made it over the past 20 years, and his record this season in the minors.

 

Just on Floyd, how did his curveball look in his start yesterday? From what I heard in Detroit it was really working for him.

 

If he's missing his 1st pitch strikes as well, really sounds like the problem Jon Garland had 3-4 years ago.