Are you religious?

[FlaSoxxJim]

I would disagree with that. An atheist generally believes that there is no higher power. An agnostic generally does not know. It's the opposite of a gnostic.

 

See above. I didn't wake up on day and know that I had gone from agnostic to atheist. And again, out of sensitivity to religous family and friends I tried passing as an agnostic for a while before I came out to them.

 

[Felix]

There is, but I can attest to the truth of what Crimson is saying. Out of (a possibly misplaced) courtesy to the religious family and friends I grew up surrounded by I continued to profess to be agnostic well past the time when I had known myself that I was an atheist. Unless you are born into atheism, it is an experiential process to get there from the religious space you were born into, and the transition from questioner to doubter to outright unbeliever is for most a continuum rather than an abrupt process.

Trust me, I'm aware of that process. When I was younger, I was raised agnostic, as my parents aren't religious at all. Then, in 6th grade, I went to catholic school (better education than the public one), and.. well.. that was enough to give me a hatred of religion. It's sad, but it's true (this reigns very, very true).

[CrimsonWeltall]

There is a huge difference between agnostic and atheist, so you're completely wrong there.

 

Yes, they're so different that they aren't mutually exclusive. Atheism is question of belief. Do you believe in any god?

 

Agnosticism is a question of knowledge. If an atheist does not believe in gods because he/she is unaware of the existance of any or thinks the existance of gods is fundamentally unknowable, then they're an agnostic as well. If an atheist does not believe in gods because he/she 'knows' they don't exist (perhaps accepts some particular "disproof of god"), then they would not be an agnostic.

 

It's the same thing with theism. Some people claim to 'know' there is a god because they believe they communicate with one or accept some "proof of god", while others might simply believe because they think god's existance is probable or because they feel god exists.

 

 

 

[FlaSoxxJim]

Trust me, I'm aware of that process. When I was younger, I was raised agnostic, as my parents aren't religious at all. Then, in 6th grade, I went to catholic school (better education than the public one), and.. well.. that was enough to give me a hatred of religion. It's sad, but it's true (this reigns very, very true).

 

Diggin' the Beefheart

[Felix]

Diggin' the Beefheart

A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?

 

I finished reading Fear and Loathing today, so I figured I'd change from Ralph Steadman's work

[Cali]

Oh God, no.

[FlaSoxxJim]

A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?

 

I finished reading Fear and Loathing today, so I figured I'd change from Ralph Steadman's work

 

I hope you drank nothing but Flying Dog whilst reading the Gonzo.

 

 

 

[Felix]

I hope you drank nothing but Flying Dog whilst reading the Gonzo.

I actually was given a bottle of flying dog (snake dog) by some random guy at a hidden beach around here earlier this summer. I can't say I was a fan of it (I'm not really a beer drinker, but I've worked on acquiring the taste this summer; right now my beer of choice of mic golden light), but I do have the bottle on display at a friends house

Edited August 15, 2007 by Felix

[Sox It To Em]

I would disagree with that. An atheist generally believes that there is no higher power. An agnostic generally does not know. It's the opposite of a gnostic.

 

Atheism is merely the absence of theism, not a positive belief in the nonexistence of gods. It is true that some atheists may hold that no gods do or can exist, but this extra step isn't necessary for the "atheist" label to apply. Consequently, everyone is either an atheist or a theist: either one believes in a god (theist) or one does not (atheist). Agnosticism deals with knowledge, not belief, and is in a separate domain from theism and atheism. An agnostic believes that the existence of gods is unknowable, or inherently unknowable. Agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism and is in no way a "third-way" between the two, as commonly perceived.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Sox It To Em

[NorthSideSox72]

Atheism is merely the absence of theism, not a positive belief in the nonexistence of gods. It is true that some atheists may hold that no gods do or can exist, but this extra step isn't necessary for the "atheist" label to apply. Consequently, everyone is either an atheist or a theist: either one believes in a god (theist) or one does not (atheist). Agnosticism deals with knowledge, not belief, and is in a separate domain from theism and atheism. An agnostic believes that the existence of gods is unknowable, or inherently unknowable. Agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism and is in no way a "third-way" between the two, as commonly perceived.

I don't agree at all. A person who is not sure of the presence of a God, but hasn't 100% dismissed it, is agnostic but is also neither theistic or an atheist. And I think nowadays, there are a lot of people in that middle ground.

 

[Sox It To Em]

I don't agree at all. A person who is not sure of the presence of a God, but hasn't 100% dismissed it, is agnostic but is also neither theistic or an atheist. And I think nowadays, there are a lot of people in that middle ground.

 

The word atheism literally means "without theism," hence the privative a. Therefore, one doesn't have to "100% dismiss the concept of god" to be an atheist. An atheist is merely someone who does not believe in a god. You are erroneously limiting the definition of atheism to strong atheism, the positive affirmation of the nonexistence of gods, which is a position a minority of atheists take.

 

I am in the position you describe. I am an agnostic atheist. I don't believe in any gods (atheist), but in the event that such a being exists, I think it would be unknowable to us humans (agnostic). It's entirely possible, and indeed quite common, for people who do not believe in gods to be unsure. Of course, I would go as far to say that the majority of people of the position you have described are more likely to be agnostic theists, people who do not claim to be sure of the existence of God, but still believe in one.

 

See:

http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/atheism.htm and http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnostici.../commitment.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Edited August 15, 2007 by Sox It To Em

[NorthSideSox72]

The word atheism literally means "without theism," hence the privative a. Therefore, one doesn't have to "100% dismiss the concept of god" to be an atheist. An atheist is merely someone who does not believe in a god. You are erroneously limiting the definition of atheism to strong atheism, the positive affirmation of the nonexistence of gods, which is a position a minority of atheists take.

 

I am in the position you describe. I am an agnostic atheist. I don't believe in any gods (atheist), but in the event that such a being exists, I think it would be unknowable to us humans (agnostic). It's entirely possible, and indeed quite common, for people who do not believe in gods to be unsure. Of course, I would go as far to say that the majority of people of the position you have described are more likely to be agnostic theists, people who do not claim to be sure of the existence of God, but still believe in one.

 

See:

http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/atheism.htm and http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnostici.../commitment.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_atheism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

I think you are making it far more black-and-white than it is. By the very definitions you quote, a person who is not sure about God(s), doesn't fit being atheist or theistic. They could be either agnostic or not, depending on their practices. One can be church going and still be unsure.

 

Its grey. Its always not one or the other.

 

[Sox It To Em]

I think you are making it far more black-and-white than it is. By the very definitions you quote, a person who is not sure about God(s), doesn't fit being atheist or theistic. They could be either agnostic or not, depending on their practices. One can be church going and still be unsure.

 

Its grey. Its always not one or the other.

 

Which one of my quotes says that?

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Which one of my quotes says that?

Sorry, I meant the links, but what I was getting at is the definitions are narrow. They don't cover everything.

 

[Sox It To Em]

I think you are making it far more black-and-white than it is. By the very definitions you quote, a person who is not sure about God(s), doesn't fit being atheist or theistic. They could be either agnostic or not, depending on their practices. One can be church going and still be unsure.

 

Its grey. Its always not one or the other.

 

I agree with you in principle. The distinction between agnosticism and agnostic theism/atheism doesn't mean much, and really doesn't change anything. The only reason I point this out is that many people believe that atheism is necessarily the affirmation that no gods exist, and this simply isn't true. I am opposed to the strong atheist claim "no gods exist" because it seems to me that it shoulders a burden of proof equal to that of theist's.