Tigers Set to Sign Porcello

[Chisoxfn]

I call BS on Linnecum. I'd still rather have Andrew Miller (mainly because I'm more a tools guy and Linnecum's build and delivery scares the s*** out of me).

 

However, of those guys you listed these are the ones I see with the ability to be front of the rotation guys:

Miller

Linnecum

Joba Chamberlain

Kershaw

 

Kennedy/Scherzwer will have a couple good seasons, but will both be pretty solid pitchers (mid rotation guys) as long as they stay healthy. Kershaw is the biggest if, as he's still so damn young.

[michelangelosmonkey]

As do people speculating that this franchise has been fistf***ed because we passed over Porcello.

The thing everyone here forgets is the baseball draft is NOT the NFL or NBA draft. First round picks are overrated. I chose the 2000 draft because it was a round number and it was long enough ago that people couldn't use words like "best potential in all the minor leagues". If you were drafed seven years ago you are either a stud pitcher or a bust...here goes:

Pitchers:

2nd pick overall Adam Johnson Twins

4th Mike Stodolka KC

5th Justin Wayne, Expos

7th: Matt Harringon Rockies

8th Mat Wheatland Tigers

9th Mark Philips Padres

10 Joe Torres Angels.

14 Beau Hale Orioles

16 Billy Traber Mets

17 Ben Diggins Dodgers

19 Sean Burnett Pirates

20 Chris Bootcheck Angels

21 John Bonser Giants

22 Phil Dmatrait Red Sox

24 Blake Williams Cardinals

29 Adam Wainwright Braves.

There you go...16 FIRST ROUND pitchers. We give each of them $5 million dollars...buy up the damn 2000 draft...corner the market on A1 pitching prospects. And what do we have for that? A bunch of nobodies. Here's Jon Sickles bragging about these great young pitchers back when they were drafted: http://espn.go.com/mlb/draft00/s/2000/0605/569167.html.

$10 million a year for a 12-12 innings eater is WAY better than $5 million spent on Mr. Porcella. Maybe Porcella will be great or maybe he will be Mike Stodolka.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

The thing everyone here forgets is the baseball draft is NOT the NFL or NBA draft. First round picks are overrated. I chose the 2000 draft because it was a round number and it was long enough ago that people couldn't use words like "best potential in all the minor leagues". If you were drafed seven years ago you are either a stud pitcher or a bust...here goes:

Pitchers:

2nd pick overall Adam Johnson Twins

4th Mike Stodolka KC

5th Justin Wayne, Expos

7th: Matt Harringon Rockies

8th Mat Wheatland Tigers

9th Mark Philips Padres

10 Joe Torres Angels.

14 Beau Hale Orioles

16 Billy Traber Mets

17 Ben Diggins Dodgers

19 Sean Burnett Pirates

20 Chris Bootcheck Angels

21 John Bonser Giants

22 Phil Dmatrait Red Sox

24 Blake Williams Cardinals

29 Adam Wainwright Braves.

There you go...16 FIRST ROUND pitchers. We give each of them $5 million dollars...buy up the damn 2000 draft...corner the market on A1 pitching prospects. And what do we have for that? A bunch of nobodies. Here's Jon Sickles bragging about these great young pitchers back when they were drafted: http://espn.go.com/mlb/draft00/s/2000/0605/569167.html.

$10 million a year for a 12-12 innings eater is WAY better than $5 million spent on Mr. Porcella. Maybe Porcella will be great or maybe he will be Mike Stodolka.

 

Boof Bonser is a bust?

[Gregory Pratt]

Wainright?

 

The draft can be a crapshoot, but we definitely don't help ourselves.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Boof Bonser is a bust?

HE's 26, 12-16 lifetime with an ERA of 4.6. Not much of a return on your $5 million from seven years before. Adam Wainwright 13-10. And that's if you get to hand pick your pick from the best pitchers of that draft. I'm not saying drafting is pointless. I'm saying:

Jake Peavy 15th round

Roy Oswald 23rd round

Mark Buehrle 38th round

Santana, Zambrano--not in draft

Brandon Webb--8th round

Brad Penny--5th round.

 

I'm not saying 1st round is worthless...I'm saying it's hardly a guarantee that these guys will be any good. Go look at what they said about those guys in 2007. Same what they are saying about Porcella...nobody knows...so we shouldn't be slamming the Sox because they were SMART not to pay $5 million for this crap shoot.

 

[Rowand44]

HE's 26, 12-16 lifetime with an ERA of 4.6. Not much of a return on your $5 million from seven years before. Adam Wainwright 13-10. And that's if you get to hand pick your pick from the best pitchers of that draft. I'm not saying drafting is pointless. I'm saying:

Jake Peavy 15th round

Roy Oswald 23rd round

Mark Buehrle 38th round

Santana, Zambrano--not in draft

Brandon Webb--8th round

Brad Penny--5th round.

 

I'm not saying 1st round is worthless...I'm saying it's hardly a guarantee that these guys will be any good. Go look at what they said about those guys in 2007. Same what they are saying about Porcella...nobody knows...so we shouldn't be slamming the Sox because they were SMART not to pay $5 million for this crap shoot.

A 4.6 era will get you more than 5 mill a year on the fa market right now.

[Gene Honda Civic]

A 4.6 era will get you more than 5 mill a year on the fa market right now.

Not to mention that $5M is a huge red herring considering Borchard set the bonus record at the time at $5M, which is still well above average for a first round pick 7 years later.

 

Oh and nevermind that the 2000 draft is now considered one of the worst all-time.

 

Heck, just look at the 2005 first round. 6 of the top 7 position players selected are already in the show. Jay Bruce is waiting in the wings. It's already more productive than the 2000 first round and it's barely two years later....

[southsider2k5]

I know everyone has gotten this draft fantasy into their heads, and you all should quit wasting your time, I think.

 

There is one falacy that needs to go away, like yesterday, and that is the Sox being big spenders in the draft. The whole world knows that Bud Selig and Jerry Reinsdorf are on the same sides of things in this game. If Bud wants money set by draft slots, JR is going to see that it happens. We are not going to be a team that gives big money out of position. Heck odds are if it has been instituted as a policy by MLB, it could have originated with JR himself.

 

Also we know what the Sox history is with drafting and developing thier own players. They don't do it well. Its like asking Jim Thome to sacrfice bunt. They don't do it, so why expect it? They do much better at scouting other teams minor league players, and selling their own players when they think the time is right. The Sox record is much better at raiding other systems, than producing anything on their own.

 

Lets face it, we aren't the Twins. We don't pull amazing players out of our minor league system. We do an amazing job at finding players that other teams undervalue or give up on. Kenny has pulled some amazing years out of no where from players everyone was convinced would flop. I trust him more in that regard, than I do for any player we draft. IF we are going to go into a moderate rebuilding, it isn't going to be from our own draftees.

[southsideirish71]

I know everyone has gotten this draft fantasy into their heads, and you all should quit wasting your time, I think.

 

There is one falacy that needs to go away, like yesterday, and that is the Sox being big spenders in the draft. The whole world knows that Bud Selig and Jerry Reinsdorf are on the same sides of things in this game. If Bud wants money set by draft slots, JR is going to see that it happens. We are not going to be a team that gives big money out of position. Heck odds are if it has been instituted as a policy by MLB, it could have originated with JR himself.

 

Also we know what the Sox history is with drafting and developing thier own players. They don't do it well. Its like asking Jim Thome to sacrfice bunt. They don't do it, so why expect it? They do much better at scouting other teams minor league players, and selling their own players when they think the time is right. The Sox record is much better at raiding other systems, than producing anything on their own.

 

Lets face it, we aren't the Twins. We don't pull amazing players out of our minor league system. We do an amazing job at finding players that other teams undervalue or give up on. Kenny has pulled some amazing years out of no where from players everyone was convinced would flop. I trust him more in that regard, than I do for any player we draft. IF we are going to go into a moderate rebuilding, it isn't going to be from our own draftees.

 

Not exactly true. The last time we were this bad, we had a series of top 10 selections. That is where the McDowells, Venturas and Frank Thomas, and others came from. We didnt just find nuggets of gold, we had blue chippers that you could build your franchise around and we did. In the late 80s to the first part of the 90s we had some killer drafts and had one of the best systems in baseball.

Edited August 21, 2007 by southsideirish71

[Gregory Pratt]

I know everyone has gotten this draft fantasy into their heads, and you all should quit wasting your time, I think.

 

There is one falacy that needs to go away, like yesterday, and that is the Sox being big spenders in the draft. The whole world knows that Bud Selig and Jerry Reinsdorf are on the same sides of things in this game. If Bud wants money set by draft slots, JR is going to see that it happens. We are not going to be a team that gives big money out of position. Heck odds are if it has been instituted as a policy by MLB, it could have originated with JR himself.

 

Also we know what the Sox history is with drafting and developing thier own players. They don't do it well. Its like asking Jim Thome to sacrfice bunt. They don't do it, so why expect it? They do much better at scouting other teams minor league players, and selling their own players when they think the time is right. The Sox record is much better at raiding other systems, than producing anything on their own.

 

Lets face it, we aren't the Twins. We don't pull amazing players out of our minor league system. We do an amazing job at finding players that other teams undervalue or give up on. Kenny has pulled some amazing years out of no where from players everyone was convinced would flop. I trust him more in that regard, than I do for any player we draft. IF we are going to go into a moderate rebuilding, it isn't going to be from our own draftees.

 

You say that as if it's a good thing. I've been talking about this as if it's a bad thing, and I definitely think it is.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Not to mention that $5M is a huge red herring considering Borchard set the bonus record at the time at $5M, which is still well above average for a first round pick 7 years later.

 

Oh and nevermind that the 2000 draft is now considered one of the worst all-time.

 

Heck, just look at the 2005 first round. 6 of the top 7 position players selected are already in the show. Jay Bruce is waiting in the wings. It's already more productive than the 2000 first round and it's barely two years later....

A 4.6 era will get you more than 5 mill a year on the fa market right now.

Man that has completely missed the point. People are talking about how we should be thrilled to pay some 1st round pick $5 mill because of his potential. I say...here's the 2000 draft and the 16 first round pitchers and COMBINED their worth maybe $5 mill. That means in this draft you have a 1/16th chance of landing a guy worth $5 mill.

 

As for me "picking" 2000 because it was a terrible draft. You CANNOT use a draft from two years ago and say Joba is GOING to be great...because it's still maybe. Let's use 1999...and don't make me keep picking these out:

 

1: Josh Hamilton

2: Josh Becket

6: Josh Girdley

7 Kyle Snyder

8 Robert Bradley

9: Barry Zito

10 Ben Sheets

12: Brett Myers

13 Mike Paradis

14 Ty Howington

15 Jason Strumm

16 Jason Jennings

18 Richard Stahl

22: Matt Ginter

24: Kurt Ainsworth

25 Bob MacDougal

26 Ben Christensen

27: David Walling

28 GErik Baxter

29: Omar Ortiz

30: Chance Caple

 

That's 21 pitchers. Zito's 111-74. Ben Sheets 71-73. Beckett 72-50. Jason Jennings 60-64.

Which of these guys is better than Buehrle? MLB drafting ESPECIALLY of pitchers is a wild longshot. Not worth $5 mill that Detroit is giving Porcella...Porcello=Josh Hamilton.

[danman31]

Not to argue your point, but Josh Hamilton is a hitter and he's been a stud this year when healthy.

[Gene Honda Civic]

MLB drafting ESPECIALLY of pitchers is a wild longshot. Not worth $5 mill that Detroit is giving Porcella...Porcello=Josh Hamilton.

Here is another list...

 

Eggs

Broccoli

Cajun seasoning

Butter

Pepsi

Chicken livers

 

Broccoli = your post. Not worth eating.

[Chisoxfn]

Not exactly true. The last time we were this bad, we had a series of top 10 selections. That is where the McDowells, Venturas and Frank Thomas, and others came from. We didnt just find nuggets of gold, we had blue chippers that you could build your franchise around and we did. In the late 80s to the first part of the 90s we had some killer drafts and had one of the best systems in baseball.

They also have developed Magglio Ordoenz, Aaron Rowand, Carlos Lee (all three have at least one all star game) and of course you have Frank and the other first round picks during that run.

 

The Sox have not developed well as of late, think again, because i remember reading somewhere that we've drafted more guys that are on major league teams than most teams in baseball. The thing is, the Sox have also made a living on moving a lot of the picks for major league talent.

 

The club has failed miserably with first round picks, but that looks to be changing with at least Josh Fields (don't know if I can say the same about Broadway/McCulloch..especially McCulloch who I consider a totally mediocre prospect jsut a year removed from being a #1 pick).

 

Oh and than there is Chris Young and Brandon McCarthy who are two pretty good young players as well (that doesn't even mention Garland...who was developed by the Sox...Buehrle...Jenks (who became a pitcher with the Sox).

 

I slam the Sox a lot, but there are still better than most organizations and its why they have one of the winningest records in all of baseball over the past 15 years ors o.

[Chisoxfn]

Man that has completely missed the point. People are talking about how we should be thrilled to pay some 1st round pick $5 mill because of his potential. I say...here's the 2000 draft and the 16 first round pitchers and COMBINED their worth maybe $5 mill. That means in this draft you have a 1/16th chance of landing a guy worth $5 mill.

 

As for me "picking" 2000 because it was a terrible draft. You CANNOT use a draft from two years ago and say Joba is GOING to be great...because it's still maybe. Let's use 1999...and don't make me keep picking these out:

 

1: Josh Hamilton

2: Josh Becket

6: Josh Girdley

7 Kyle Snyder

8 Robert Bradley

9: Barry Zito

10 Ben Sheets

12: Brett Myers

13 Mike Paradis

14 Ty Howington

15 Jason Strumm

16 Jason Jennings

18 Richard Stahl

22: Matt Ginter

24: Kurt Ainsworth

25 Bob MacDougal

26 Ben Christensen

27: David Walling

28 GErik Baxter

29: Omar Ortiz

30: Chance Caple

 

That's 21 pitchers. Zito's 111-74. Ben Sheets 71-73. Beckett 72-50. Jason Jennings 60-64.

Which of these guys is better than Buehrle? MLB drafting ESPECIALLY of pitchers is a wild longshot. Not worth $5 mill that Detroit is giving Porcella...Porcello=Josh Hamilton.

Lets make one thing clear...in that draft there were only a handful of pitchers that would have even came close to demanding that type of bonus. I'm not saying you take Matt Ginter, who never would have asekd for anything close to 5 mill and take him. However, if a guy is head and shoulders better than everyone else than you better freaking take him.

 

[Flash Tizzle]

Also we know what the Sox history is with drafting and developing thier own players. They don't do it well. Its like asking Jim Thome to sacrfice bunt. They don't do it, so why expect it?

 

Why expect it?! This is a concept I've never understood. A large percentage of our fans are completely passive concerning this issue.

 

Why should Kansas City, Pittsburgh, or Tampa Bay fans expect a championship? They don't do it well, right? If our fans have expectations of the White Sox to be the best team in baseball, why can't this sentiment transfer itself to player development? Management from Williams on down should strive to not only have a championship calibur ballclub, but a minor league system capable of producing replacement level players. Andy Gonzalez and Jerry Owens just won't cut it.

 

Personally, and I don't believe I'm alone here, I expect more from this organization. Everyone should be aboard and hold player development to the same elevated standards they have towards the major league team.

 

They do much better at scouting other teams minor league players, and selling their own players when they think the time is right. The Sox record is much better at raiding other systems, than producing anything on their own

 

What do we have to show for the last two years of scouting other teams minor league systems and selling players at the right time? Danny Richar? Maybe. Nick "Tick Below Jenks" Masset and Gavin "Arizona Fall League" Floyd don't do much for me. I probably wouldn't have cared as much if it weren't for Williams proudly raving on the talent both possessed. As of now, either appear major league ready, and as a result, Williams looks foolish. Any benefit we've had recently from obtaining other teams prospects is minimal and overstated because of Jenks.

 

Until we have a deal comparable to that of which Minnesota received for Pierzynski, or Cleveland for Bartolo Colon (ie, franchise changing trades), then I'm not going to give Williams much credit for receiving Gonzalez and Danks in what's beginning to look more and more like one-for-one deals. I credit him for dealing McCarthy, but not for only one player worth a damn. Championships won't be won with small steps such as those. More contributing players need to return in trades if, according to you, our draft success is poor and that's just the way it is.

 

In addition, if they truly knew the best oportunity to trade players Garland would have been traded last month. We're going to go through the same issues with his contract extension as what occured with Buehrle, and -- judging from his post ASB performance -- there's a chance we're not going to receive much for him if he doesn't rebound soon. Why didn't they see this coming? I wasn't the only one on Soxtalk practically begging Garland to be traded for positional prospects.

 

Or how about Crede? He should have been traded with lingering back issues and Fields in the wing, correct? Because they were dangling him to Anaheim suggests to me the thought atleast entered their minds. It wasn't as if it was an impossible turn of events to predict. Certaintly more predictable than McCarthy breaking down.

 

Lets face it, we aren't the Twins. We don't pull amazing players out of our minor league system. We do an amazing job at finding players that other teams undervalue or give up on. Kenny has pulled some amazing years out of no where from players everyone was convinced would flop. I trust him more in that regard, than I do for any player we draft. IF we are going to go into a moderate rebuilding, it isn't going to be from our own draftees.

 

Why not? Why can't we be the Twins? This is exactly the problem I have with comments such as yours. We're so willing to emulate the Twins on the field with their philosophy of "playing the game right" and having "grinders," yet we're not willing to match the Twins and their success from within?

 

It's just strange to me how you show absolutely no faith in the system, yet provide no criticism of Williams or anyone else. Almost as if you're virtually shrugging your shoulders. Even if you're more confident in him extracting talent from other clubs, shouldn't it be a priority of a contending ballclub to have their own draft picks succeed?

 

Our ways of acquiring talent is really more limited than people think.

 

-Boras re: draft/FA

-Don't select players overslot

-Don't have much success developing players on national or international level

-Never can be expected to outbid anyone for a high profile player

-Nature of market has made finding low-key FA's with high potential less and less likely

-Few players on the team hold significant trade value

-Fewer players on the team with value are expendable because of someone in the minors ready to replace them. Of course, the one scenario this could have benefited us was with backless Crede and Josh Fields. Only seems fitting Crede undergoes surgery.

 

I don't know about you, but I believe one of these is the easiest to change. That's option #3. To hear people dismiss it is the equivalent, in my mind, of accepting failure. I believe Shaffer's firing two months ago suggests Williams doesn't take such failures very lightly.

Edited August 21, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Gregory Pratt]

Why expect it?! This is a concept I've never understood. A large percentage of our fans are completely passive concerning this issue.

 

Why should Kansas City, Pittsburgh, or Tampa Bay fans expect a championship? They don't do it well, right? If our fans have expectations of the White Sox to be the best team in baseball, why can't this sentiment transfer itself to player development? Management from Williams on down should strive to not only have a championship calibur ballclub, but a minor league system capable of producing replacement level players. Andy Gonzalez and Jerry Owens just won't cut it.

 

Personally, and I don't believe I'm alone here, I expect more from this organization. Everyone should be aboard and hold player development to the same elevated standards they have towards the major league team.

What do we have to show for the last two years of scouting other teams minor league systems and selling players at the right time? Danny Richar? Maybe. Nick "Tick Below Jenks" Masset and Gavin "Arizona Fall League" Floyd don't do much for me. I probably wouldn't have cared as much if it weren't for Williams proudly raving on the talent both possessed. As of now, either appear major league ready, and as a result, Williams looks foolish. Any benefit we've had recently from obtaining other teams prospects is minimal and overstated because of Jenks.

 

Until we have a deal comparable to that of which Minnesota received for Pierzynski, or Cleveland for Bartolo Colon (ie, franchise changing trades), then I'm not going to give Williams much credit for receiving Gonzalez and Danks in what's beginning to look more and more like one-for-one deals. I credit him for dealing McCarthy, but not for only one player worth a damn. Championships won't be won with small steps such as those. More contributing players need to return in trades if, according to you, our draft success is poor and that's just the way it is.

 

In addition, if they truly knew the best oportunity to trade players Garland would have been traded last month. We're going to go through the same issues with his contract extension as what occured with Buehrle, and -- judging from his post ASB performance -- there's a chance we're not going to receive much for him if he doesn't rebound soon. Why didn't they see this coming? I wasn't the only one on Soxtalk practically begging Garland to be traded for positional prospects.

 

Or how about Crede? He should have been traded with lingering back issues and Fields in the wing, correct? Because they were dangling him to Anaheim suggests to me the thought atleast entered their minds. It wasn't as if it was an impossible turn of events to predict. Certaintly more predictable than McCarthy breaking down.

Why not? Why can't we be the Twins? This is exactly the problem I have with comments such as yours. We're so willing to emulate the Twins on the field with their philosophy of "playing the game right" and having "grinders," yet we're not willing to match the Twins and their success from within?

 

It's just strange to me how you show absolutely no faith in the system, yet provide no criticism of Williams or anyone else. Almost as if you're virtually shrugging your shoulders. Even if you're more confident in him extracting talent from other clubs, shouldn't it be a priority of a contending ballclub to have their own draft picks succeed?

 

Our ways of acquiring talent is really more limited than people think.

 

-Boras re: draft/FA

-Don't select players overslot

-Don't have much success developing players on national or international level

-Never can be expected to outbid anyone for a high profile player

-Nature of market has made finding low-key FA's with high potential less and less likely

-Few players on the team hold significant trade value

-Fewer players on the team with value are expendable because of someone in the minors ready to replace them. Of course, the one scenario this could have benefited us was with backless Crede and Josh Fields. Only seems fitting Crede undergoes surgery.

 

I don't know about you, but I believe one of these is the easiest to change. That's option #3. To hear people dismiss it is the equivalent, in my mind, of accepting failure. I believe Shaffer's firing two months ago suggests Williams doesn't take such failures very lightly.

 

Or that he was looking for a fall-guy.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Here is another list...

 

Eggs

Broccoli

Cajun seasoning

Butter

Pepsi

Chicken livers

 

Broccoli = your post. Not worth eating.

 

You sir debate like a Cubs fan.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Lets make one thing clear...in that draft there were only a handful of pitchers that would have even came close to demanding that type of bonus. I'm not saying you take Matt Ginter, who never would have asekd for anything close to 5 mill and take him. However, if a guy is head and shoulders better than everyone else than you better freaking take him.

 

Fine...we'll use your rules. But there is no such thing as the consensus best pitcher...so let's call it the top four pitchers selected in each draft as the one's MOST likely to be great pitchers. Here's your list from 1996-2002. That's 7 years, 28 pitchers and they are:

Mark Prior, Dewon Brazelton, Gavin Floyd, Josh Karp, Bryan Bullington, Chris Gruler, Adam Loewen, Clint Everts, Mark Mulder, Jeff Austin, Ryan Mills, JM Gold, Matt Anderson, Jason Grilli, Geoff Goetz, Dan Reichert, Kris Benson, Braden Looper, Billy Koch, John Patterson, Josh Becket, Josh Girdley, Kyle Snyder, Robert Bradley, Adam Johnson, Mike Stodolka, Justin Wayne, Matt Harrington.

Every one of those guys was a Porcello...and Mulder, Beckett...and a whole lot of nothing. Two for 28. That's a careless way to spend $5 mill.

 

 

[29andPoplar]

Fine...we'll use your rules. But there is no such thing as the consensus best pitcher...so let's call it the top four pitchers selected in each draft as the one's MOST likely to be great pitchers. Here's your list from 1996-2002. That's 7 years, 28 pitchers and they are:

Mark Prior, Dewon Brazelton, Gavin Floyd, Josh Karp, Bryan Bullington, Chris Gruler, Adam Loewen, Clint Everts, Mark Mulder, Jeff Austin, Ryan Mills, JM Gold, Matt Anderson, Jason Grilli, Geoff Goetz, Dan Reichert, Kris Benson, Braden Looper, Billy Koch, John Patterson, Josh Becket, Josh Girdley, Kyle Snyder, Robert Bradley, Adam Johnson, Mike Stodolka, Justin Wayne, Matt Harrington.

Every one of those guys was a Porcello...and Mulder, Beckett...and a whole lot of nothing. Two for 28. That's a careless way to spend $5 mill.

 

Interesting post and thank you for doing all that digging.

 

There are two sides to it as you've identified. It is easy to say "throw money at it" and hope the guy you throw money at pans out bigtime. More often than not as you've identified these kids don't pan out for whatever reason.

 

However I will state that the White Sox need, in my opinion, to take more risks and be more aggressive. That includes dealing with an agent they hate (from time to time anyways), and identifying and signing int'l talent.

 

Williams has gone on record as saying the Sox need to inject the system with more potential high impact players. Guillen has stated they need to sign 10-12 players on the int'l market and play the odds vs. just spending a bundle on one guy.

 

Here is the key though on the int'l market, it's not just a matter of throwing the most $$ at these 16 yr. old Dominican and Venezuelan kids. It's a matter of the scouts developing positive relationships with the right contacts, the families of these prospects, their coaches. Believe it, this is a major factor in the Latin American market. I'm not sure what (how many) scouts the Sox have down there but I aim to find out. You won't sign everybody but you need to compete aggressively and I'm not convinced they're going to the wall in this area.

 

As for the draft, we can comment on past results but things just got a big shake up and I believe there will be more fallout this winter (some new scouts being brought in) so unfortunately we are in a wait and see mode for 2008 and beyond.

 

On this Boras thing. Boras Corp. is highly aggressive in landing these kids for representation. They cannot shut off this avenue of talent. But as someone here identified Reinsdorf is tight with the commissioner and roughly 24-25 teams held to slot bonuses, 5-6 didn't. The White Sox are one of the 24-25 and frankly I don't see that changing. If that's the case then they need to do better in the int'l market or they need to target players from other organizations as Williams has been doing.

 

No matter what, there is not an easy answer.

[Gregory Pratt]

Interesting post and thank you for doing all that digging.

 

There are two sides to it as you've identified. It is easy to say "throw money at it" and hope the guy you throw money at pans out bigtime. More often than not as you've identified these kids don't pan out for whatever reason.

 

However I will state that the White Sox need, in my opinion, to take more risks and be more aggressive. That includes dealing with an agent they hate (from time to time anyways), and identifying and signing int'l talent.

 

Williams has gone on record as saying the Sox need to inject the system with more potential high impact players. Guillen has stated they need to sign 10-12 players on the int'l market and play the odds vs. just spending a bundle on one guy.

 

Here is the key though on the int'l market, it's not just a matter of throwing the most $$ at these 16 yr. old Dominican and Venezuelan kids. It's a matter of the scouts developing positive relationships with the right contacts, the families of these prospects, their coaches. Believe it, this is a major factor in the Latin American market. I'm not sure what (how many) scouts the Sox have down there but I aim to find out. You won't sign everybody but you need to compete aggressively and I'm not convinced they're going to the wall in this area.

 

As for the draft, we can comment on past results but things just got a big shake up and I believe there will be more fallout this winter (some new scouts being brought in) so unfortunately we are in a wait and see mode for 2008 and beyond.

 

On this Boras thing. Boras Corp. is highly aggressive in landing these kids for representation. They cannot shut off this avenue of talent. But as someone here identified Reinsdorf is tight with the commissioner and roughly 24-25 teams held to slot bonuses, 5-6 didn't. The White Sox are one of the 24-25 and frankly I don't see that changing. If that's the case then they need to do better in the int'l market or they need to target players from other organizations as Williams has been doing.

 

No matter what, there is not an easy answer.

 

Latin America is the answer. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have much of a presence or make much of an effort.

 

Atlanta, Seattle and the Dodgers are good down there. We need to catch up.

[29andPoplar]

Latin America is the answer. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have much of a presence or make much of an effort.

 

Atlanta, Seattle and the Dodgers are good down there. We need to catch up.

 

The White Sox have an academy in the Dominican Republic. My understanding is they're throwing more and more resources at it but am not certain exactly what that means. I will try to find out. I also know they have signed a few guys in this international signing period but it was none of the big bonus guys. De Los Santos is a product of their Dominican scouting and as I have mentioned on this site before half the Bristol roster is as well.

 

However the point as you basically stated is the organization and the fans want to see results, they don't much care if they sign 15 guys for big bonuses if none turn out to be good players.

 

Also of note the Royals are getting very aggressive in Latin America and are also opening an academy there. The Twins are highly aggressive in Australia and in fact they are one of 2-3 teams that have basically cornered the market there.

 

Look for the White Sox to do more and more in the Pacific Rim. They have two DSL teams in the Dominican which is a good sign but as to exactly what that means, I do not know and plan to find out.

[Gregory Pratt]

The Braves have an Australian presence. I wouldn't really waste my time there. Latin America is the answer.

[NorthSideSox72]

If you are looking to evaluate the Sox' ability to scout for the draft, I'd suggest you should use the performance of their picks rather than the amounts of money shelled out to do that. The money paid in one given draft is a red herring - its an easy target for criticism, but its so fraught with pollutant factors that it means zero. If you don't believe that, just look at where other teams are on the list. Some of the organizations historically best at drafting are near the bottom... others near the top. Same the other way around.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that the Sox as an organization has done poorly at choosing and developing young talent, though. I just think the better measure is to look at the resulting MLB players (or lack thereof) out of the system.

 

[RockRaines]

Why not? Why can't we be the Twins? This is exactly the problem I have with comments such as yours. We're so willing to emulate the Twins on the field with their philosophy of "playing the game right" and having "grinders," yet we're not willing to match the Twins and their success from within?

Well the twins are pretty much doomed to finish out of the playoffs in this division for awhile, and without Santana they have basically no chance. Its nice that their best players were top draft picks (morneau 3rd round i guess not really a top pick, Mauer #1) and basically no-brainers and all, but without Johan, they are nothing but an average team.