Dick Allen Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 12:15 PM) So was he experiencing this same "tightness" from '00-'04? Either way, he's maddeningly inconsistent. Those seasons he was very young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 11:26 AM) Not to argue semantics but where exactly did I say anything about big and close? I did say he was a top protogee, maybe I should spell it out better, Regier is a guy who worked in the Atlanta org., the Milwaukee org, and the Red Sox org. Regier has said Schuerholz and Bill Lajoie have been big influences on him, he learned a lot from each. If I intimated that Regier sat in Schuerholz's office every day and listened in on his phone calls I certainly did not mean to imply that. Worked with him, influenced by him, yes. Lajoie and Schuerholz know each other very well and both were big influences on Regier. Again not to argue here but not everything is in that book you own. As for the last statement I'm not sure what difference it makes if someone has played for the White Sox or not. Good baseball people are good baseball people no matter where they're from. I specifically mentioned that he's not in any interviews or anything, either, so for you to call him a top protogee is misleading as can be, and that's what I'm contesting. That just because he once worked in Atlanta and Boston means what? Good for him, but he's not a "Top protogee" and I can't find anything about HIS track record that leads me to be impressed. What point are you trying to prove by bringing him up, anyway? That we're finally hiring competent people from competent organizations? 'Cause I'm not so sure we are. As to this, As for the last statement I'm not sure what difference it makes if someone has played for the White Sox or not. Good baseball people are good baseball people no matter where they're from. I like to say, somewhat sarcastically, that our organization has an incest policy whereby you must've played for the team at some point or other to wind up a coach or scout for it. And while that's clearly not 100% true, it has plenty of truth to it. Just look at Ozzie and his coaching staff, KW, and I'm sure it holds true all through the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29andPoplar Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I specifically mentioned that he's not in any interviews or anything, either, so for you to call him a top protogee is misleading as can be, and that's what I'm contesting. That just because he once worked in Atlanta and Boston means what? Good for him, but he's not a "Top protogee" and I can't find anything about HIS track record that leads me to be impressed. What point are you trying to prove by bringing him up, anyway? That we're finally hiring competent people from competent organizations? 'Cause I'm not so sure we are. As to this, I like to say, somewhat sarcastically, that our organization has an incest policy whereby you must've played for the team at some point or other to wind up a coach or scout for it. And while that's clearly not 100% true, it has plenty of truth to it. Just look at Ozzie and his coaching staff, KW, and I'm sure it holds true all through the system. First part: Believe whatever you want. I brought him up because he is a highly respected baseball guy who's learned from some of the best, I'm glad he's in the White Sox organization and I know what type of positive changes he is trying to make. These are things I'm aware of from being out on back fields and interacting with baseball people in Arizona. If you have a problem with my semantics and find them misleading that's ok by me. Second part: True enough, the White Sox employ a lot of former White Sox players. Also true enough, a lot of other clubs hire their ex players too. Also true enough, there are many many many more non White Sox ex players employed throughout the organization than there are guys who played for the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 01:08 PM) First part: Believe whatever you want. I brought him up because he is a highly respected baseball guy who's learned from some of the best, I'm glad he's in the White Sox organization and I know what type of positive changes he is trying to make. These are things I'm aware of from being out on back fields and interacting with baseball people in Arizona. If you have a problem with my semantics and find them misleading that's ok by me. Second part: True enough, the White Sox employ a lot of former White Sox players. Also true enough, a lot of other clubs hire their ex players too. Also true enough, there are many many many more non White Sox ex players employed throughout the organization than there are guys who played for the franchise. Well, I'll take your word for it that Regier is good. I hope he is, and that he's got some good ideas and the organization will listen to him. I guess I just object to the Atlanta and Schuerholz connection because for the life of me I can't find anything about him and he wasn't a "top protogee" but let's stop making such a big deal about that phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 10:48 AM) Buehrle and Garland don't have enough torque to hurt their arms? Ha! Sure, they aren't throwing Felix Hernandez' slider, but their arms can go same as anyone's. Buehrle doesn't throw anything with enough force...look at his innings pitched! Garland has a better chance, but neither one has a monster curve, or a biting slider. A "knot" sounds more like a flexibility issue than a surgery issue. Although I'm not a doctor, so don't take me at my word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Sorry, Buehrle throws plenty hard enough to blow out his arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 01:40 PM) Sorry, Buehrle throws plenty hard enough to blow out his arm. The human body and the shoulder in general was not designed to throw an object overhand over and over and over. The minute you start to do that, you put your arm at risk for injury. Now some people have a higher risk because of poor mechanics that put maximum strain on your elbow and shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 That's exactly my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29andPoplar Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) I like to say, somewhat sarcastically, that our organization has an incest policy whereby you must've played for the team at some point or other to wind up a coach or scout for it. And while that's clearly not 100% true, it has plenty of truth to it. Just look at Ozzie and his coaching staff, KW, and I'm sure it holds true all through the system. This actually piqued my curiousity so I did a little digging. On the White Sox staff, the manager and all the coaches played for the White Sox at one time, with two exceptions, Cooper and Shines. (need to check on this for sure). In the minor leagues I looked at all five farm teams and the only "field" personnel listed are the manager, pitching coach, and hitting coach. As a result there are 18 such personnel. Charlotte: Manager Marc Bombard (no), Pitching Coach Juan Nieves (no), Hitting Coach Tack Wilson (no) B'Ham: Mgr. Rafael Santana (no), Pitching Coach Rich Dotson (yes), Hitting Coach Richie Hebner (no) W-S: Mgr. Tim Blackwell (no), Pitching Coach JR Perdew (no), Hitting Coach Wes Clements (no) Kannapolis: Mgr. Chris Jones (no), Pitching Coach Larry Owens (no), Hitting Coach Andy Tomberlin (no) Great Falls: Mgr. Chris Cron (yes), Hitting Coach Rob Sasser (no)*, Pitching Coach Curt Hasler (no)* Bristol: Mgr. Bob Thigpen (yes), Hitting Coach Jerry Hairston (yes), Pitching Coach Roberto Espinoza (no) * the asterisk for Rob Sasser and Curt Hasler means although they did not play in a major league regular season game for the White Sox, both were players in the White Sox farm system at one time. Edited August 20, 2007 by 29andPoplar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Interesting info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Bobby Thigpen is managing @ Bristol? Wow, never knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 10:55 AM) Those seasons he was very young. Jon was in his mid-20's and had been pitching in the league for five years before having his one really good season. He relies way too heavily on his two-seamer and sinker and his off-speed stuff has been historically mediocre. When he locates well, his stuff is good enough to dominate at times. If his command is off, hitters will sit on his fastball and knock it out of the park. I don't think that Jon's inconsistency is due to shoulder tightness. And if Jon is experiencing "tightness" in his shoulder, why in the hell is he out there right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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