It's about f***ing time!!!

[Gregory Pratt]

All I know is that every time I make a sentimental visit to Albany Park, I want to cry. The Jewish, German, Irish and Scandinavian immigrants who came there treated the neighborhood a lot different than the current clientele. Oh well, gentrificiation is slowly moving into that high density apartment neighborhood. Time for the gangbangers to start finding a different war zone. Yes arresting and deporting that woman was long overdue.

 

And people felt the same about the boldened as you do about the Mexicans.

[sox4lifeinPA]

And people felt the same about the boldened as you do about the Mexicans.

 

But THEY were allowed to use names that were aren't...

 

Milosh is so lucky... (1:07)

 

[NorthSideSox72]

All I know is that every time I make a sentimental visit to Albany Park, I want to cry. The Jewish, German, Irish and Scandinavian immigrants who came there treated the neighborhood a lot different than the current clientele. Oh well, gentrificiation is slowly moving into that high density apartment neighborhood. Time for the gangbangers to start finding a different war zone. Yes arresting and deporting that woman was long overdue.

 

 

Kind of why I moved out of Berwyn. The neighbors thought my front lawn was an oil filter recycling dump. Not to mention the beer bottles and wonderful music blaring at all hours of the day and night. I need not digress anymore. I drive through the town now and again and I cannot believe how bad it looks.

 

We're straying into dangerous territory here. Let's try to avoid the racism, shall we?

 

And I agree with Pratt (wow), those groups that Yossarian mentions were looked at the same way as each one marched into a neighborhood. Something was seen about them that was detestable to someon else.

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

We're straying into dangerous territory here. Let's try to avoid the racism, shall we?

 

And I agree with Pratt (wow), those groups that Yossarian mentions were looked at the same way as each one marched into a neighborhood. Something was seen about them that was detestable to someon else.

 

 

so, the moral of the story is..... Don't be a jackass in a country that you weren't born in?

[NorthSideSox72]

so, the moral of the story is..... Don't be a jackass in a country that you weren't born in?

Knowing this board, I'd say we all took different morals from different stories here.

 

[sox4lifeinPA]

Knowing this board, I'd say we all took different morals from different stories here.

 

 

I was being 85% facecious, however, I stand by the comment. One side needs to recognize the greater culture that they are entering and the other needs to be sensitive and understanding of the learning curve of the newly arrived migrants; perhaps even learning a bit about the emerging culture.

[NorthSideSox72]

I was being 85% facecious, however, I stand by the comment. One side needs to recognize the greater culture that they are entering and the other needs to be sensitive and understanding of the learning curve of the newly arrived migrants; perhaps even learning a bit about the emerging culture.

I'd agree with that.

 

[StrangeSox]

I was being 85% facecious, however, I stand by the comment. One side needs to recognize the greater culture that they are entering and the other needs to be sensitive and understanding of the learning curve of the newly arrived migrants; perhaps even learning a bit about the emerging culture.

 

Sounds like a pretty good perspective.

[Yossarian]

Aren't we quick to accuse? My family has Blacks, Spanish and French speaking immigrants, and one Jewish uncle through intermarriage. I certainly don't hate any of them, and to the best of my knowledge none of them dislikes me. My heart does break when I visit Albany Park. Or Little Village or Humboldt Park, and countless other Chicago neighborhoods. Recent immigrants have not treated those neighborhoods with the same respect as past residents. If in 21st Century America it makes one a racist to say that, then things are more PC than even I imagined. I taught history, and don't need a lesson on immigration. This is the third major wave of immigration since the Revolutionary war, and yes everyone who came before this current group also caught hell. It's part of the process, and being half Italian, I know the insults, slurs, and menial jobs that stood in the way of my ancestors advancement. The problem today is that assimilation is a dirty word, and many of today's immigrants are not encouraged and don't wish to assimilate. Some liberals even call that sort of thing racist. What a world we live in? Many of today's immigrants would return to their native countries in a heartbeat, if conditions were different. Most of yesterday's immigrants clung tenaciously to the old ways, but encouraged, no demanded that their offspring assimilate (again that dirty word). Yeah I'm glad they deported that loud unpleasant woman. I think a country that has 10 or 12 or whatever million undocumented aliens is courting disaster. I know the Albany Park of my youth is far superior to the battleground neighborhood of today, and if it's not at least partly the fault of the current residents then whose fault is it? A long time ago, when I was a kid playing ball on the playground at Roosevelt High, three of my best friends were immigrants from Quebec, Sicily and Cuba. You could hear French, Italian, and Spanish in their homes. All three turned out to be fine hard working guys. Great pals to have as a kid. I wasn't taught to judge people based on their race or nationality, and I also wasn't taught to gussie up the truth as I see it. If that makes me a racist to some of you then tough twinkies. One more thing. I get sad when I visit Albany Park.

[mr_genius]

so, the moral of the story is..... Don't be a jackass in a country that you weren't born in?

 

 

haha, yea. I guess she is saying that the American Government owes her because they "let" her in. Lady, you snuck in and stayed here illegally. Also, no one is holding her kid hostage here in the United States. She can be reunited with her son at any time, but it will need to be in her home country.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Aren't we quick to accuse? My family has Blacks, Spanish and French speaking immigrants, and one Jewish uncle through intermarriage. I certainly don't hate any of them, and to the best of my knowledge none of them dislikes me. My heart does break when I visit Albany Park. Or Little Village or Humboldt Park, and countless other Chicago neighborhoods. Recent immigrants have not treated those neighborhoods with the same respect as past residents. If in 21st Century America it makes one a racist to say that, then things are more PC than even I imagined. I taught history, and don't need a lesson on immigration. This is the third major wave of immigration since the Revolutionary war, and yes everyone who came before this current group also caught hell. It's part of the process, and being half Italian, I know the insults, slurs, and menial jobs that stood in the way of my ancestors advancement. The problem today is that assimilation is a dirty word, and many of today's immigrants are not encouraged and don't wish to assimilate. Some liberals even call that sort of thing racist. What a world we live in? Many of today's immigrants would return to their native countries in a heartbeat, if conditions were different. Most of yesterday's immigrants clung tenaciously to the old ways, but encouraged, no demanded that their offspring assimilate (again that dirty word). Yeah I'm glad they deported that loud unpleasant woman. I think a country that has 10 or 12 or whatever million undocumented aliens is courting disaster. I know the Albany Park of my youth is far superior to the battleground neighborhood of today, and if it's not at least partly the fault of the current residents then whose fault is it? A long time ago, when I was a kid playing ball on the playground at Roosevelt High, three of my best friends were immigrants from Quebec, Sicily and Cuba. You could hear French, Italian, and Spanish in their homes. All three turned out to be fine hard working guys. Great pals to have as a kid. I wasn't taught to judge people based on their race or nationality, and I also wasn't taught to gussie up the truth as I see it. If that makes me a racist to some of you then tough twinkies. One more thing. I get sad when I visit Albany Park.

 

 

Bravo Sir. Your opinion is the most sane and logical argument I've seen yet regarding this issue.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Recent immigrants have not treated those neighborhoods with the same respect as past residents.

 

Interesting...

[kapkomet]

Interesting...

How so?

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Praise the Lord and go back where you came from!!!

[SleepyWhiteSox]

How so?

 

It was just an interesting thought to me because he may just mean that recent immigrants are not keeping the neighborhoods in the type of condition that more-established (over many generations), better-off residents do, but it made me wonder how it compares to those other waves of first-generation immigrants he mentions. Now, personally, I don't claim to know exactly how those neighborhoods were because I was not alive to see it when past first-generation immigrants inhabited (or were forced into) certain neighborhoods, but I wonder if it was similar, better, or possibly even worse to current situations. From my limited knowledge, particularly while being bored outta my mind during my dull U.S. history class in college, I seem to recall that immigrant neighborhoods in the past were pretty bad too...

 

And, again, personally, I think poor/bad neighborhoods are more a product of economic conditions and socioeconomic status than race.

 

 

Another point that I found interesting was the claim that current immigrants are not pushing their children to assimilate as much as past immigrants have. I don't have first-hand knowledge of how it was back then, but I also wonder just how different it is. It might even be to early to judge that currently...

Edited August 25, 2007 by SleepyWhiteSox

[sox4lifeinPA]

It was just an interesting thought to me because he may just mean that recent immigrants are not keeping the neighborhoods in the type of condition that more-established (over many generations), better-off residents do, but it made me wonder how it compares to those other waves of first-generation immigrants he mentions. Now, personally, I don't claim to know exactly how those neighborhoods were because I was not alive to see it when past first-generation immigrants inhabited (or were forced into) certain neighborhoods, but I wonder if it was similar, better, or possibly even worse to current situations...

 

With some research, I'm sure this could be at least put into some perspective. I don't know if they keep records for things like "how many McDonald's bags found per sq/mile" but the overall mentality of this generation's waste problems are probably not the same as previous generations...but then again, I remember hearing stories in History class about the state of some of the NYC ghettos during the drepression, etc.

 

And, again, personally, I think poor/bad neighborhoods are more a product of economic conditions and socioeconomic status than race.

and simple laziness of people. I would believe that culture has something to do with it as well. It's not appropriate in a New England town to leave a vehicle on cinder blocks in the front yard as it might be more acceptable in say, east Texas.

 

Another point that I found interesting was the claim that current immigrants are not pushing their children to assimilate as much as past immigrants have...

 

I would say that it's probably more about the percentage of immigrant parents. For instance, I would think a high percentage of immigrant families encouraged their kids in 1907 to get an education, make the most of themselves, and learn from the american culture than 2007. This again, it notwithstanding. Many immigrants parents and grandparents enforce a "native-tongue" only policy at home to help balance the onslaught of popular culture now as they did in 1907.

[southsider2k5]

The thing that makes me laugh about this case is that it is conviently glossed over that this woman committed social securty fraud and tax fraud, even if you want to ignore the, at least, two illegal entries into this country. She was convicted of social security fraud for purchasing a stolen social security number, and using that to commit fraud in getting a job. Is that the kind of person we really want in this country? If people are OK with that, please take out a credit card or two, and let me use them directly, instead of going through the problem of stealing it from you. Even if you want to ignore the immigration stuff, she does not deserve to stay here, in my opinion.

[mr_genius]

The thing that makes me laugh about this case is that it is conviently glossed over that this woman committed social securty fraud and tax fraud, even if you want to ignore the, at least, two illegal entries into this country. She was convicted of social security fraud for purchasing a stolen social security number, and using that to commit fraud in getting a job. Is that the kind of person we really want in this country? If people are OK with that, please take out a credit card or two, and let me use them directly, instead of going through the problem of stealing it from you. Even if you want to ignore the immigration stuff, she does not deserve to stay here, in my opinion.

 

 

Thats a great point.

[kapkomet]

The thing that makes me laugh about this case is that it is conviently glossed over that this woman committed social securty fraud and tax fraud, even if you want to ignore the, at least, two illegal entries into this country. She was convicted of social security fraud for purchasing a stolen social security number, and using that to commit fraud in getting a job. Is that the kind of person we really want in this country? If people are OK with that, please take out a credit card or two, and let me use them directly, instead of going through the problem of stealing it from you. Even if you want to ignore the immigration stuff, she does not deserve to stay here, in my opinion.

It's ok, she was just trying to feed her family.

 

[GoSox05]

Aren't we quick to accuse? My family has Blacks, Spanish and French speaking immigrants, and one Jewish uncle through intermarriage. I certainly don't hate any of them, and to the best of my knowledge none of them dislikes me. My heart does break when I visit Albany Park. Or Little Village or Humboldt Park, and countless other Chicago neighborhoods. Recent immigrants have not treated those neighborhoods with the same respect as past residents. If in 21st Century America it makes one a racist to say that, then things are more PC than even I imagined. I taught history, and don't need a lesson on immigration. This is the third major wave of immigration since the Revolutionary war, and yes everyone who came before this current group also caught hell. It's part of the process, and being half Italian, I know the insults, slurs, and menial jobs that stood in the way of my ancestors advancement. The problem today is that assimilation is a dirty word, and many of today's immigrants are not encouraged and don't wish to assimilate. Some liberals even call that sort of thing racist. What a world we live in? Many of today's immigrants would return to their native countries in a heartbeat, if conditions were different. Most of yesterday's immigrants clung tenaciously to the old ways, but encouraged, no demanded that their offspring assimilate (again that dirty word). Yeah I'm glad they deported that loud unpleasant woman. I think a country that has 10 or 12 or whatever million undocumented aliens is courting disaster. I know the Albany Park of my youth is far superior to the battleground neighborhood of today, and if it's not at least partly the fault of the current residents then whose fault is it? A long time ago, when I was a kid playing ball on the playground at Roosevelt High, three of my best friends were immigrants from Quebec, Sicily and Cuba. You could hear French, Italian, and Spanish in their homes. All three turned out to be fine hard working guys. Great pals to have as a kid. I wasn't taught to judge people based on their race or nationality, and I also wasn't taught to gussie up the truth as I see it. If that makes me a racist to some of you then tough twinkies. One more thing. I get sad when I visit Albany Park.

 

I can't say for every neighborhood in Chicago, but the one I live in seem's to be respected by the current immigrants. I think areas that have a heavy immigrant population are going to be your poorer areas. It goes for all past waves of immigration. I think that immigrants from all generations would have stayed in their home country had things been better off. They come to America for a better life. To say that it's part of the "process" to be attacked is just insane. We all come from immigrants and should learn from what happened to are grandparents, so that we don't do what was done to them.

 

 

Also I'm so sick of the "PC" thing. It's such a copout to use that.

Edited August 27, 2007 by GoSox05

[Yossarian]

I can't say for every neighborhood in Chicago, but the one I live in seem's to be respected by the current immigrants. I think areas that have a heavy immigrant population are going to be your poorer areas. It goes for all past waves of immigration. I think that immigrants from all generations would have stayed in their home country had things been better off. They come to America for a better life. To say that it's part of the "process" to be attacked is just insane. We all come from immigrants and should learn from what happened to are grandparents, so that we don't do what was done to them.

Also I'm so sick of the "PC" thing. It's such a copout to use that.

To say it's part of the process is a historical statement and nothing more. It has been part of the process. In fact you could make a case that today's immigrants have had an easier road in that regard. Did you ever see one of Thomas Nast's cartoons about the Irish? If someone in a major newspaper tried to do that to say the Mexicans, he'd be lucky to get work as a janitor. Immigrants have improved and even saved many inner city neighborhoods in this country. Most are assimilating at their own pace, just like past generations of immigrants, but a much higher percentage of today's group are not. There is also not the medical screening that existed in the Ellis Island days. It's not possible when ten or twelve or however many million have just walked in. It's a mess that's been perpetuated by both political parties for their own cynical reasons, and it needs fixed yesterday. The last major wave of immigrants occurred between about 1880 and WWI. Congress pretty much closed the doors in 1924, and that lasted until the Immigration act of 1965. It's time to call another time out for a generation or two, just to allow the nation to absorb millions of newcomers. It's just sound, logical, rational policy. Try and propose it and see if the PC police aren't out in full force. I too am sick of the PC thing too. It's not a copout. It's real. It exists in government, in the schools and in the corporate offices. Go find a Human Resources pro who's been around awhile, and ask about the many changes they've encountered in the last twenty years.

 

Thomas Nast Irish Cartoon

 

 

 

[Texsox]

Regardless of whatever other crime is going on, when someone thumbs their nose at the law and basically dares you to arrest her, you pretty much have to to just that or else it really sends the wrong message. Yes, there are more serious crimes going on that police could tend to, but if they would have allowed her to remain 'free' after she fled that church, that would have looked really bad.

 

^^^^^^

 

Didn't take long for me to find someone I agreed with. I just do not understand this segment of the illegals. A far better approach, IMNSHO is

 

A. Yes we are here illegally, but we have led respectable lives. We've worked hard, raised a family, and didn't cause any problems for anyone.

 

B. Please allow us to stay.

 

And as always, I am for allowing illegals who have means to support themselves and have not broken any other laws, to remain. If you ain't workin' and so much as jay walked, you are outta here.

[Texsox]

The thing that makes me laugh about this case is that it is conviently glossed over that this woman committed social securty fraud and tax fraud, even if you want to ignore the, at least, two illegal entries into this country. She was convicted of social security fraud for purchasing a stolen social security number, and using that to commit fraud in getting a job. Is that the kind of person we really want in this country? If people are OK with that, please take out a credit card or two, and let me use them directly, instead of going through the problem of stealing it from you. Even if you want to ignore the immigration stuff, she does not deserve to stay here, in my opinion.

 

Stupid woman wanted to pay taxes?! That is unAmerican Since she was paying in taxes, here's my credit card, please start making contributions and I will let you shop in thirty years

 

I mostly agree with you, but once again notice that the illegal was paying into Social Security. This is why the whole economic argument falls flat with me. It's going to cost us money to get these jobs fully on the rolls.

[EvilMonkey]

Stupid woman wanted to pay taxes?! That is unAmerican Since she was paying in taxes, here's my credit card, please start making contributions and I will let you shop in thirty years

 

I mostly agree with you, but once again notice that the illegal was paying into Social Security. This is why the whole economic argument falls flat with me. It's going to cost us money to get these jobs fully on the rolls.

Until she uses that fraudulent social security number to get a credit card or buy a car, defaults on the loan(s) and has collection agencies screwing with whoever the real number belongs to. yes, the upside to the theft of the number is taxes go into the system, but depending on how they live and pay bills, the negatives could be much worse.

[Rex Kickass]

Wouldn't the credit check determine that the Social Security number is fraudulent?