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Garner and Purpura Fired in Houston


Yossarian

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QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 03:40 PM)
I doubt it, the Astros owner is a lot more proactive than Uncle Jerry. It'll take at least 2 more years before we do something this logical unfortunately.

 

Purpura was NOT a very good GM. He inherited the 2005 team. He just wasn't very good. Garner...meh. Middling at best. The difference is, this is Ozzie's FIRST managing job...so I would hope they would give him a little extra time to try and work itself out. Garner has managed before and you know what you are getting.

 

Plus the Jennings trade...didn't turn out so well.

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QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 04:14 PM)
Purpura was NOT a very good GM. He inherited the 2005 team. He just wasn't very good. Garner...meh. Middling at best. The difference is, this is Ozzie's FIRST managing job...so I would hope they would give him a little extra time to try and work itself out. Garner has managed before and you know what you are getting.

 

Plus the Jennings trade...didn't turn out so well.

Ozzie has almost as many winning seasons (3) as Garner (4) has had. The difference is that Ozzie is in his 4th year and Garner is in his 15th. It's not unreasonable to give Ozzie more rope than Garner based on that. Not that Ozzie doesn't drive me nuts with his sac bunts, IBBs, rampant pitching changes, etc.

 

That being said, I wouldn't be upset if the White Sox cleaned house. It might seem rash on the heels of 2 90-win seasons, but the minor league system is such a travesty that holding the GM accountable wouldn't be unreasonable either.

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QUOTE(bkmoney @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 03:45 PM)
never liked phil garner... seemed like a big d bag after the 05 WS.

 

meh

Yeah, it's not like he was a D-Bag in the mid 90's as a the brewers manager, challenging Hawk to a fist fight. Or as manager of the 2000 Tigers when the Sox and Pussies tangled twice in one day...

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QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 05:14 PM)
Yeah, it's not like he was a D-Bag in the mid 90's as a the brewers manager, challenging Hawk to a fist fight. Or as manager of the 2000 Tigers when the Sox and Pussies tangled twice in one day...

 

Garner's always been a douchebag. To be fair, if he did challenge Hawk, he isn't a particularly likeable guy, IMO. I don't know him, but his on-air announcing is ridiculous, he seems disrespectful to DJ, is immature when the team is losing, and if the story is right, used to mock poor Wimpy for things no one should be mocked for. But yeah, Garner is not Now.

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QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 10:14 PM)
Or as manager of the 2000 Tigers when the Sox and Pussies tangled twice in one day...

 

Brawl Part 1

Brawl Part 2

Brawl Part 3

 

My hatred for Robert Fick, Juan Encarnacion, Bobby Higginson, and Karim Garcia had all but faded until you mentioned the brawl.

Edited by hammerhead johnson
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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 05:42 PM)
My hatred for Robert Fick, Juan Encarnacion, Bobby Higginson, and Karim Garcia had all but faded until you mentioned the brawl.

 

How dare you mention them and forget the disgusting name of Jeff Weaver. BTW, I forgot how "sexy" Butter looked back then.

 

EDIT: Poor Keith Foulke.

Edited by SoxAce
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QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 04:14 PM)
Purpura was NOT a very good GM. He inherited the 2005 team. He just wasn't very good.

 

Plus the Jennings trade...didn't turn out so well.

 

KW inherited a team coming off a division title in 2000, and has guided us to 1 playoff appearance in 7 years, that's NOT a very good GM. And how are all the moves we made to fix the bullpen working out? How about our farm system, where is our Hunter Pence?

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QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 11:06 PM)
KW inherited a team coming off a division title in 2000, and has guided us to 1 playoff appearance in 7 years, that's NOT a very good GM. And how are all the moves we made to fix the bullpen working out? How about our farm system, where is our Hunter Pence?

 

Really fair to say KW was coming off a division title in 2000 when the team's rotation consisted of Jim Parque, Mike Sirotka, James Baldwin, Cal Eldred, Jon Garland (as a f'in 20 year old), and Kip Wells. Sure it was a division title, but there was no pitching core on that team whatsoever. That entire season - great as it was - was a fluke. And then, from the best minor league system in the MLB comes Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, a s***load of relievers, and a few AAAA/5th starters.

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QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 10:32 PM)
Kenny Williams also put one of the best teams of all time onto the field. That shouldn't buy him much more time but it will buy him a bad year.
He's been very streaky as a GM. He deserves a chance to right the ship. I would have Ozzie on a shorter lease.

 

Edit: I know lots of good Sox fans see it the other way around.

Edited by Yossarian
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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 11:30 PM)
And then, from the best minor league system in the MLB comes Aaron Rowand, Joe Crede, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, a s***load of relievers, and a few AAAA/5th starters.

And who was in charge of the minor league system under Schueler....that's right -- it was Kenny Williams!

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QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 11:06 PM)
KW inherited a team coming off a division title in 2000, and has guided us to 1 playoff appearance in 7 years, that's NOT a very good GM. And how are all the moves we made to fix the bullpen working out? How about our farm system, where is our Hunter Pence?

 

That's right...let's compare ourselves to every other team in the league. You know, the Twins can say, "Where is OUR Hunter Pence?" The Rockies can say, "Where is our Johan Santana?" The Dodgers can say, "Where is our Justin Verlander?" Any team can say something like that.

 

Here's what I will give Kenny (and I'm not a KW apologizer, it wouldn't matter who was there, if he makes a bad trade, then I'll call him out on it)...he takes chances. Maybe they are too risky sometimes, but they are chances. Many times people on this board have said that middle relievers are too unreliable from year to year...well, they took a chance on hard throwers with shoddy control, and it failed. The Padres, for example, have a bunch of castoffs and misfits, too...with their rock being Linebrink, who ended up having a bad season and traded...and they are in second place.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that Kenny puts himself out there. He tries different things. He's not afraid to fail. And when he needs to hold up a trade, he will.

 

Purpura was afraid to pull the trigger. He made ONE big trade (Jennings)...Pettitte and Clemens were hometown guys who WANTED to play with the Astros, Purpura didn't woo them. Personally, I give both KW and Ozzie one more year. If they can't get their s*** together by September '08 and at least compete for the division title...they gawn. Not because I think they are bad at what they do, but because the Sox will need the change.

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QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 27, 2007 -> 10:06 PM)
KW inherited a team coming off a division title in 2000, and has guided us to 1 playoff appearance in 7 years, that's NOT a very good GM. And how are all the moves we made to fix the bullpen working out? How about our farm system, where is our Hunter Pence?

 

 

Comparing KW to Purpura is like comparing apples and oranges, IMO. Kenny is agressive when put on the spot, and Purpura seemed to pee himself when asked a question about the team future.

 

Additionally, Kenny has stepped up and taken responsibility for most of his experiment gone wrong. Purpura never said much at all.

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QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Aug 28, 2007 -> 09:18 AM)
And who was in charge of the minor league system under Schueler....that's right -- it was Kenny Williams!

 

And then look at the talent levels of the 95-00 teams compared to the 2001-2006 teams. It's not even close.

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