Who would you like to see fired the most?

[Dick Allen]

Well-said

I don't know that the Sox have been so successful under KW. He did win , I'll give him that, but for the majority of the time he's been the GM the division has been weak. KC and Det. were absolutely atrocious, Cleveland rebuilt. Minnesota has turned over their roster. In the six years he didn't win a championship or division or wild card, KW's teams are a combined 9 games over .500. Considering the unbalanced schedule, its not so impressive, at least to the degree where you can say without a doubt that KW is the smartest GM around.

[LVSoxFan]

I say start with KW and replace him with... Steve Stone?

 

 

[Soxfest]

Everyone cannot come back this now has been a season and a half of WAY below .500 ball!

[WCSox]

I don't know that the Sox have been so successful under KW. He did win , I'll give him that, but for the majority of the time he's been the GM the division has been weak. KC and Det. were absolutely atrocious, Cleveland rebuilt. Minnesota has turned over their roster. In the six years he didn't win a championship or division or wild card, KW's teams are a combined 9 games over .500. Considering the unbalanced schedule, its not so impressive, at least to the degree where you can say without a doubt that KW is the smartest GM around.

 

 

I realize that you hate Kenny Williams with a passion, but I don't believe that I - or anybody else here - has claimed that Kenny is "without a doubt the smartest GM around."

 

[whitesoxfan101]

Given KW is one of the more successful GM's in the game, he is the one I'd say definitely not. The others I could see arguments for.

 

 

When did 1 playoff appearance in 7 years and a team in year #7 that is in last place at the end of August with a bad farm system and old and very expensive MLB squad make you one of the more successful GM's in the game?

Edited August 28, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Soxbadger]

How many of the present MLB gms have a World Series ring?

Edited August 28, 2007 by Soxbadger

[whitesoxfan101]

How many of the present MLB gms have a World Series ring?

 

Well then what's a better GM, one that had one lightning in a bottle year and a ring, and the rest of the time misses the playoffs every year, or one with a solid farm system and who is in the playoffs on a very regular basis? The ring feels better, but the organization with consistent trips to October and a good farm system is far better off long term.

[NorthSideSox72]

 

When did 1 playoff appearance in 7 years and a team in year #7 that is in last place at the end of August with a bad farm system and old and very expensive MLB squad make you one of the more successful GM's in the game?

I and others have made these points before. A GM's job is to equip the team to be competitive - in the chase, so to speak. In that regard, Kenny has put the team there the great majority of his seasons. Perfect he is not - this year's team was not good enough. But he is among a small handful of GM's who have achieved what I just stated as the ultimate success - competitive teams - most of his seasons.

 

Once in the chase... its up to the players and the coaches.

 

[29andPoplar]

The ring feels better

 

Yes it sure does, ask Shapiro in Cleveland and ask their fans too.

[29andPoplar]

By the way, I know this site appears to love these polls so everyone can jump in and bash, but to me the proper time to ask these questions is a year from now. Let's see if this staff can rebound from a horrible year.

[WCSox]

Well then what's a better GM, one that had one lightning in a bottle year and a ring, and the rest of the time misses the playoffs every year, or one with a solid farm system and who is in the playoffs on a very regular basis?

 

As a fan, the bottom line is what matters. A "solid farm system" (like the one that we had in the late '80s) doesn't really mean crap if those players can't win a playoff series.

 

The ring feels better, but the organization with consistent trips to October and a good farm system is far better off long term.

 

And which organization, besides the Yankees and the Braves back in the '90s, has "constant trips to October"? Or are you speaking of your XBox franchise mode team?

 

[RockRaines]

Well then what's a better GM, one that had one lightning in a bottle year and a ring, and the rest of the time misses the playoffs every year, or one with a solid farm system and who is in the playoffs on a very regular basis? The ring feels better, but the organization with consistent trips to October and a good farm system is far better off long term.

Isnt the goal of playing the MLB to win a ring? I didnt know that also-ran was the goal.

[Soxbadger]

Well as a GM your goal should be:

 

Winning the World Series

 

Not:

 

Winning a lot of divisions and losing in the playoffs.

 

To me the answer is easy, Id rather be the guy with the crown, than the who was was "this close".

 

No one remembers second place, no one remembers great streaks of almost winning.

 

GM has 1 goal, to win World Series. You have a farm system to help you win them, you have a team to win them, and I dont care how set youa re for the next 20 years, if you dont win one, then it really didnt matter.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Soxbadger

[29andPoplar]

For comparison, how about Shapiro in Cleveland. Everyone raves about their talent, and I like their team. He's been there for 6 years as GM and in their organization since 1992. From 2001 to 2006 they won one division (2001) and were over .500 one other year (2005). They had a great 2005 as we all know and then completely tanked last year. They're a good team this year and lead the division but I wouldn't classify them as dominant by any means. Ownership stuck with both Shapiro and their manager after last year's debacle and now they lead the division.

[WCSox]

For comparison, how about Shapiro in Cleveland. Everyone raves about their talent, and I like their team. He's been there for 6 years as GM and in their organization since 1992. From 2001 to 2006 they won one division (2001) and were over .500 one other year (2005). They had a great 2005 as we all know and then completely tanked last year. They're a good team this year and lead the division but I wouldn't classify them as dominant by any means. Ownership stuck with both Shapiro and their manager after last year's debacle and now they lead the division.

 

And we can go back into the '90s and rave about what an awesome farm system John Hart put together and how it produced a lumber company of a lineup (including a couple of future HOFers), division titles for years on end, and two pennants... but no championships. Ask Indians fans if they'll trade all of that for the ring that we won two years ago.

 

[santo=dorf]

Kenny Williams, and it's not even close. He took over in 2001, and since then we have 6 Octobers out of 7 at home, and currently reside with a poor farm system and even worse major league team. This is such an easy question to answer it's not even funny.

So you would rather be the Oakland A's or Minnesota Twins of the past 7 years instead of the Sox? Interesting.

 

..and the easiest answer isn't KW because his job is toughest spot to fill. How hard would it be to find another pitching or hitting coach over a GM?

[Dick Allen]

For comparison, how about Shapiro in Cleveland. Everyone raves about their talent, and I like their team. He's been there for 6 years as GM and in their organization since 1992. From 2001 to 2006 they won one division (2001) and were over .500 one other year (2005). They had a great 2005 as we all know and then completely tanked last year. They're a good team this year and lead the division but I wouldn't classify them as dominant by any means. Ownership stuck with both Shapiro and their manager after last year's debacle and now they lead the division.

The teams were at different points when each took over. Shapiro had to rebuild and trade veterans for young players. KW has had the luxury and resources to go for it. The White Sox have had about $120 million more to play with the last 4 seasons. Some of it because KW won, but still the comparision is really not fair.

[Dick Allen]

How many of the present MLB gms have a World Series ring?

So that means Kenny should be GM as long as he wants? Jerry Krause had 6. How many GM's have ever had that? How much credit did he get?

[santo=dorf]

The teams were at different points when each took over. Shapiro had to rebuild and trade veterans for young players. KW has had the luxury and resources to go for it. The White Sox have had about $120 million more to play with the last 4 seasons. Some of it because KW won, but still the comparision is really not fair.

Oh, so that's why Shapiro undeservingly gets more credit. I'd say the Indians were in a hell of a lot better shape before Shapiro than the White Sox before KW.

[fathom]

So you would rather be the Oakland A's or Minnesota Twins of the past 7 years instead of the Sox? Interesting.

 

..and the easiest answer isn't KW because his job is toughest spot to fill. How hard would it be to find another pitching or hitting coach over a GM?

 

Greg Walker should be the one on the hot seat, and it's not even close. However, like I said yesterday, it's like the 4 guys are a package deal, and it's all of them or nothing.

[CanOfCorn]

If someone HAD to be fired...I think it should be Walker. Only because the hitters haven't had hardly ANY success the last year and a half. Except for Dye last year and well, no one this year. But, I don't think he will be fired...he'll be re-assigned.

 

And 101...let's not go there, buddy. Schuerholz is one of the best in the game...he won 15 division titles in a row. How many rings with the Braves??? One. And I bet you can ask every single Braves fan that if they could either have 15 in a row or that one ring in the 90's, I think most would say the ring.

 

And I would as well. As I said in another thread...I like Kenny because he takes a risk...sometimes it backfires, obviously. Sometimes it doesn't, 2005. But, he's not afraid to pull the trigger and take the heat, even if he gets testy about it.

[Dick Allen]

So you would rather be the Oakland A's or Minnesota Twins of the past 7 years instead of the Sox? Interesting.

 

..and the easiest answer isn't KW because his job is toughest spot to fill. How hard would it be to find another pitching or hitting coach over a GM?

The Twins won in 1987 and 1991 and make the playoffs occassionally. Oakland is usually right there, won 3 in a row in the 70's and won 1 in the 80's and make the playoffs pretty often.I would take Minnesota and Oakland's last 30 years over the White Sox last 30 years easily.

[santo=dorf]

Greg Walker should be the one on the hot seat, and it's not even close. However, like I said yesterday, it's like the 4 guys are a package deal, and it's all of them or nothing.

If that's true, it makes you wonder what was really going on with Rock Raines.

[santo=dorf]

The Twins won in 1987 and 1991 and make the playoffs occassionally. Oakland is usually right there, won 3 in a row in the 70's and won 1 in the 80's and make the playoffs pretty often.I would take Minnesota and Oakland's last 30 years over the White Sox last 30 years easily.

That's great and all, but has little to do with KW.

 

The Bulls have won 6 championships over the past 15 NBA seasons (40%,) but that doesn't make Paxson the best GM in the NBA.

[Dick Allen]

Oh, so that's why Shapiro undeservingly gets more credit. I'd say the Indians were in a hell of a lot better shape before Shapiro than the White Sox before KW.

You may want to look at Cleveland's roster when he took over. Brady Anderson was with the Tribe. They had Vizquel and Thome, but not all that much else. The Sox had Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Crede, Garland, Buerhle, Valentin, Durham, Konerko, they had a decent team. Cleveland was dismantling, the White Sox building. Its probably time for the White Sox to dismantle, but they probably can't afford the attendance hit like Cleveland took. Wasn't it around the time Hart got out, when the Indians had been sold for a premium and the new owner was losing a boatload on another business?