Oz blows his cork...

[klaus kinski]

I think you would see .270/.345/.470 out of Rowand... And I'd take that over Hunter anyday of the week.

 

Or any one else we already have

 

[klaus kinski]

That could be part of it as well. The Sox are beyond and afterthought with the media. Usually on my way home from work I listen to ChicagoBaseBallTonight, and it's usually got JHood and DiFalco on, both Sox fans. They don't even think to talk Sox, and when they do, it's about how they never talk about them. Mac Jurko and Harry have also talked about how in production meetings someone will ask, "So, any Sox discussion today?" and no one will say anything, so it's all Cubs and Bears.

 

Maybe the whole thing was an act, just to try and get the Sox back in the news. I was talking about it with a guy at work tonight. Williams needs to make a big move EARLY in the off-season. The money will be there for this upcoming season. I don't buy the article about there not being much. The seats have been packed for the most part this season. It's the drop in season tickets for 2008 which is the scary thing, which will effect 09. Williams needs to get a buzz going, and quick if they want to keep "competitive." It's imperative he grabs the headlines early this off-season.

 

Getting rid of Williams will be buzz enough for me-

[southsider2k5]

After seeing what happened after Oz blew up, I can see why he waited 4 months... It really didn't matter.

[TheBigHurt]

I find it funny Ozzie is mouthing off and bad-mouthing his players when he's a part of the overall problem. I understand why some people liked hearing this, but IMO he should keep his mouth shut, at least until he actually becomes a good manager.

[greg775]

I understand why some people liked hearing this, but IMO he should keep his mouth shut, at least until he actually becomes a good manager.

 

Piniella did the same thing earlier this year. Read today's Trib online.

[TheBigHurt]

Piniella did the same thing earlier this year. Read today's Trib online.

 

I haven't watched many Cubs games this year, but I'd assume Lou is a better manager than Ozzie. I don't see the purpose of your comparison.

[greg775]

-- Manager Ozzie Guillen raised the issue of a double standard in Chicago over the way his comments are conveyed.

 

"It's my job to explain things and I protect [players] a lot—more than I should," Guillen said Thursday night. "The manager eight miles from me (the Cubs' Lou Piniella) was [ripping] his players, 'I need good players,' and no one [said anything]. I say we need to play better and all of a sudden they say, 'Ozzie is a piece of [crud].'

 

Here's why I brought it up. Double standard.

And yes, Ozzie is as good as Pineilla. He won a WS title two seasons ago. I love Oz.

Edited September 1, 2007 by greg775

[TheBigHurt]

Here's why I brought it up. Double standard.

And yes, Ozzie is as good as Pineilla. He won a WS title two seasons ago. I love Oz.

 

As good? So Lou makes idiotic moves all the time? Not good to know.

 

I don't know much about Lou's in-game managing, so I wouldn't make any assumptions. I don't criticize Ozzie's rant simply because he made it (although he went far over the line, IMO, much farther than I've ever heard Lou go, he was melodramatic, even), mainly just that he's called out his players for being hard to work with and trashing them when he's made a ton of f***-ups this year (and last year, too) and has been just as big a problem overall.

Edited September 1, 2007 by TheBigHurt

[greg775]

Oz probalby should have blamed himself more, but he did say if he's the reason then fire him.

He sort of threw himself under the bus also IMO, but maybe not enough.

I still don't see how anybody can argue what he said. He didn't name any player specifically.

 

It's amazing how many games I've seen on TV this season veterans and rookies alike couldn't move runners or get a key hit to save their life.

[witesoxfan]

I think you would see .270/.345/.470 out of Rowand... And I'd take that over Hunter anyday of the week.

 

Rowand's not that strong of a hitter to be putting up an IsoS of 200 nor is he a patient enough hitter to be putting up a .075 IsoD, atleast not while hitting .270. There have been two years in his career where his IsoS has been 200 or better, 2004 and 2007. He hit .310 in 2004, and he's hitting .310 this year too. He's also never put up an IsoD of .075; the closest he's been is this year at .071, and he's already destroyed his career high for walks in a season (like 33% more than he's ever walked in any other season).

 

To put up such a season, Rowand would probably have to have around 30 doubles, 25 homers, 70 walks, all while keeping his average in the .270 range. Doesn't seem possible to me, because I really don't ever see Rowand putting up an OPS anywhere between .775 and .850. He's just too streaky of a hitter; if he's going like s***, he'll put up his usual .725-.750. If he's going well, it's .875-.925. I'm not sure there's an in between, but perhaps there is if he gets super hot for one half and then sucks the next.

[LVSoxFan]

This is correct: Pinella did go off on his team as they were stinkin up the place in that first month or so.

 

Difference is, they eventually turned it around.

 

Here's my take on Ozzie's recent "tirade" or talk in the Sun-Times today about how he's going back to his "old" self because being "nice" didn't work--I hear a man trying everything to fix this, and can't figure out what will work. That's not a slam, but in the end he can only hold so many meetings, make so many threats, babysit so many times... these guys are the ones on the field, and they suck.

 

Pinella said pretty much the same thing during his tirade: in essence, he can do whatever he wants but if people can't catch balls or hit with men on base, what is he supposed to do? Pinella didn't waste any time calling his players out and the buzz back then was that some veteran players had to "adjust" to his confrontational style.

 

If anything comes out of this maybe has Ozzie has learned that holding his tongue and being "nice" isn't going to produce winners.

 

The story that blows my mind the most is how many times this season, after yet another loss, the Sox players would be in the clubhouse laughing and joking as if it was nothing.

 

I think that's a huge chunk of your problem right there.

[SkokieSox]

I find it funny Ozzie is mouthing off and bad-mouthing his players when he's a part of the overall problem. I understand why some people liked hearing this, but IMO he should keep his mouth shut, at least until he actually becomes a good manager.

 

Exactly, he needs to teach these players to be great. I'm sick of all these people trying to put responsibility on the players. Its the managers who win games...

[kapkomet]

This is correct: Pinella did go off on his team as they were stinkin up the place in that first month or so.

 

Difference is, they eventually turned it around.

 

Here's my take on Ozzie's recent "tirade" or talk in the Sun-Times today about how he's going back to his "old" self because being "nice" didn't work--I hear a man trying everything to fix this, and can't figure out what will work. That's not a slam, but in the end he can only hold so many meetings, make so many threats, babysit so many times... these guys are the ones on the field, and they suck.

 

Pinella said pretty much the same thing during his tirade: in essence, he can do whatever he wants but if people can't catch balls or hit with men on base, what is he supposed to do? Pinella didn't waste any time calling his players out and the buzz back then was that some veteran players had to "adjust" to his confrontational style.

 

If anything comes out of this maybe has Ozzie has learned that holding his tongue and being "nice" isn't going to produce winners.

 

The story that blows my mind the most is how many times this season, after yet another loss, the Sox players would be in the clubhouse laughing and joking as if it was nothing.

 

I think that's a huge chunk of your problem right there.

 

DING DING DING DING DING DING...

 

Post of 2007 right there. These guys don't give a s*** and they haven't since they were two weeks out from being eliminated last year. PERIOD. When they started worrying about how they were going to get their s*** home at the end of September, 2006 about Sept. 5 (after a HORRENDOUS August) of last year, that was it. These guys have mailed it in since that point.

[Gregory Pratt]

Kind of wish Pierzynski had made a comment.

[Gregory Pratt]

"I haven't mailed it in. For Ozzie to suggest this team and I have mailed it in, I guess he must see something I don't. Everyone does. I haven't mailed it in. Did I ever tell you that I stole first base once? I just want to play everyday. Every day. People hate me for no reason. maybe Ozzie is drinking the Kool-Aid? I don't know why he's mad at the team. It's not my fault Manny Delcarmen throws a cut fastball and Greg Walker never told me about it. s***!"

[TheBigHurt]

Exactly, he needs to teach these players to be great. I'm sick of all these people trying to put responsibility on the players. Its the managers who win games...

 

I get your point, but anyone who denies that the manager has a huge impact on the team and that Ozzie has been atrocious in his managing (and that this has a huge impact on games and has possibly cost the Sox quite a few) is delusional.

Edited September 2, 2007 by TheBigHurt

[SkokieSox]

I get your point, but anyone who denies that the manager has a huge impact on the team and that Ozzie has been atrocious in his managing (and that this has a huge impact on games and has possibly cost the Sox quite a few) is delusional.

 

Delusional may be excessive - please cite some instances... Granted there will be plays where people disagree with certain moves, but that's bound to happen with any manager over the course of a 162 games. Ozzie has had his hands tied this season. The pen has sucked, we haven't been able to move runners (assuming they've been on). I mean if we had a .300 team average, and Ozzie was running us out of innings because of hit and runs and stolen base attempts, that's one thing, but that's not what's going on. The entire team has underachieved, what possibly could he have done different, besides what he himself has said, of becoming a mean person.

[TheBigHurt]

Delusional may be excessive - please cite some instances... Granted there will be plays where people disagree with certain moves, but that's bound to happen with any manager over the course of a 162 games. Ozzie has had his hands tied this season. The pen has sucked, we haven't been able to move runners (assuming they've been on). I mean if we had a .300 team average, and Ozzie was running us out of innings because of hit and runs and stolen base attempts, that's one thing, but that's not what's going on. The entire team has underachieved, what possibly could he have done different, besides what he himself has said, of becoming a mean person.

 

Who needs examples? It's been a CONSTANT. Just ask fathom if you want numerous examples. I can recall a horribly managed game which Contreras pitched in... I think last month. I can recall numerous games of mishandling pitchers, pinch-hitters, etc. you name it. It seems fairly commonly known that ozzie seems to not do his homework fairly often.

[SkokieSox]

Who needs examples? It's been a CONSTANT. Just ask fathom if you want numerous examples. I can recall a horribly managed game which Contreras pitched in... I think last month. I can recall numerous games of mishandling pitchers, pinch-hitters, etc. you name it. It seems fairly commonly known that ozzie seems to not do his homework fairly often.

 

Whatever, what "seems fairly commonly known" is that this team was lost from the start and that there was not much Ozzie or anyone else could have done with this dismal performance from this years team. Blaming Ozzie is just another way for people to feel comfortable in deferring responsibility to the real issues.

 

And since you give very general complaints to Ozzie in his handling his pitching staff, I ask you who in this pen was worth a damn besides Jenks that Ozzie could have used? What the hell was the guy supposed to do? The only option was to give Jenks 200 innings pitched this year, which everyone would then complain about that.

 

Who needs examples? I do, because I think this argument is horse ****. Whenever a team is going bad, there's always a fall guy, but you are pointing the finger at the wrong man.

[greg775]

And since you give very general complaints to Ozzie in his handling his pitching staff, I ask you who in this pen was worth a damn besides Jenks that Ozzie could have used? What the hell was the guy supposed to do? The only option was to give Jenks 200 innings pitched this year, which everyone would then complain about that.

 

Great post, Seal, one of the best of the year.

I was thinking today about how this team has so many glaring weaknesses, I'd think odds of a loss are monumental every given day.

The hope was MacDougal and Thornton would be the guys to get it to Jenks. Instead the Royals rejects were totally overmatched with their wildness and meatball pitches.

Boone was serviceable at times and has shown some potential but also has his share of big time failures.

As far as grades this year I'd give MacDougal a D-minus; Thornton a D-minus; Boone a C; Wasserman a C to Cminus; Buckvich an F; Myers a D; Haeger when he was up a D; Jenks an A-plus.