greg775 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) No offense or anything but you have absolutely no clue how a professional baseball organization is run. If this is KW's master plan, then neither does he. It is embarrassing to do what they are doing with Fields in left and the hack at third. It is ridiculous, embarrassing as loss after loss pile up. Why not just go all the way and have tryouts with young guys at every position this final month? Why are they pitching Garland, Mark B, Vazzy, we know what they can do. Sit them and bring up all prospects and let them also lose games. I understand what you are saying. I just don't think a team that won the WS two years ago should be a disgrace and this team is a disgrace partly because so many automatic outs are in the lineup. Edited August 31, 2007 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) Tears swell in my eyes after watching the Phils win today. For all of you that thought Aaron Rowand wasn't going to be missed. I just wanna say a long overdue kiss my ass! Um. You can buy Phillies jersies and watch him play all you want. Buy MLB Extra Innings, and bookmark Philstalk.com, and get the heck up outta here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 10:55 PM) Name one team in baseball that uses 2 months as a tryout for next year or the future. It's a ridiculous philosophy. You play the best players to win. In the offseason if you are a good organization or a bad organization that gets lucky, you acquire some free agents (like Soriano, not Erstad; I hate to compare us to the Cubs). A 2 month tryout is an insult to Sox fans who might want to spend a nice night at the park and try to win a few games or watch some games on TV and not have to puke because Fields is getting a tryout in left and some hack is at third. And some prospect like Richar is making outs at a ridiculous rate. Teams in our position are the ones who use the last part of the season as a open tryout. Trying to win at all costs to the point where it retards your future is myopic and foolish. You let the kids play, and you see what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 11:03 PM) If this is KW's master plan, then neither does he. It is embarrassing to do what they are doing with Fields in left and the hack at third. It is ridiculous, embarrassing as loss after loss pile up. Why not just go all the way and have tryouts with young guys at every position this final month? Why are they pitching Garland, Mark B, Vazzy, we know what they can do. Sit them and bring up all prospects and let them also lose games. I understand what you are saying. I just don't think a team that won the WS two years ago should be a disgrace and this team is a disgrace partly because so many automatic outs are in the lineup. If Joe Crede shows he's healthy and ready to play in spring training of next season what would you like them to do with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Teams in our position are the ones who use the last part of the season as a open tryout. Trying to win at all costs to the point where it retards your future is myopic and foolish. You let the kids play, and you see what you have. I guess, but why then did Oz lose it last night. Why is anybody sweating it at all. Everybody should be all happy if this is just some open tryout. I don't understand what all true Sox fans aren't incensed and embarrassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I'd want Crede to play third and Fields to play left after playing it in winter league ball and spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 11:10 PM) I'd want Crede to play third and Fields to play left after playing it in winter league ball and spring training. Why not get Fields some experience playing LF in major league conditions? Believe it or not but the playing conditions in the AFL and ST are insanely different from those of the Cell. Who on the current roster would be more productive than Josh Fields in LF for the rest of this season? Getting him some work in Major League playing conditions can only help him in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I personally say let Fields develop at 3B and forget about Crede. This team needs a rebuilding. A "re-tooling" and spending an insane amount of $$$ in free agency might only make us .500 or a little above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I guess it's good to get Fields time in left right now in Major League conditions like you say, Kalapse, but at least have some option at third base that isn't an automatic out and terrible fielder. I guess losing 9 of 10 games just rubs me the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(stretchstretch @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 07:38 PM) those that write off the impact of Rowand's trade just see it to be too SIMPLE a way to bring a whole team down, but in doing so, continue to underestimate the value of chemistry and the impact on a clubhouse of a vocal fighter. Through a combination of skill, dumb luck, momentum, the totally random occurrence of events in baseball, and more luck we had the best pitching in the league in 2005. This lead us to the playoffs and to a World Series win. After that, K Williams made a trade that improved the extremely mediocre offense. And it panned out. Jim Thome's amazing hitting combined even with the lowly contributions of rookie Brian Anderson, far and away outdid the 05 combination of Everett and Rowand at the plate. And Anderson was no slouch with the glove either. BUT SINCE THE PITCHING STAFF GAVE UP AN ENTIRE RUN MORE PER GAME IN 06 THAN IN 05 the team did not make the playoffs, though surprisingly won 90 games thanks to the excellent offense offsetting the worse than average pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 12:33 AM) I guess it's good to get Fields time in left right now in Major League conditions like you say, Kalapse, but at least have some option at third base that isn't an automatic out and terrible fielder. I guess losing 9 of 10 games just rubs me the wrong way. As I mentioned yesterday, it just goes to show how bad K Williams is, that he doesn't have a better 8th option down on the depth chart at 3rd base than Gonzalez (who has an OBP .330s, way better than any of our other rookies, and many of our veterans). How can you not have someone better waiting in the wings for just in case Crede gets injured, Pablo breaks his leg, we trade Mackowiak, Fields gets moved to left field as practice for next year since these games are meaningless, and Cintron is on bereavement/ his arm injury hampers his ability to throw from 3rd. Most other teams have 9, if not 47 great options at 3rd for just these types of situations when the games don't matter. Edited August 31, 2007 by Vance Law Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro1983hat Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Once again, the Legend of Aaron Rowand far exceeds the Actual Aaron Rowand. http://bp3.blogger.com/_W6YuhWU3sm8/RnDT3m...h/thelegend.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) Who gives a s*** about Iguchi? There wasn't a single good reason to keep Tadahito but there were many good reasons to trade him. I agree, but not for a s***ty Class A pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(Yossarian @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 01:00 PM) I agree, but not for a s***ty Class A pitcher. Given that Tad was a FA and we'd have spetn $1 mil and gotten nothing for him and not even gotten any time for Richar to learn the ropes of the big leagues, I think that getting anything to move Tad was a good thing, even if it's just a class A pitcher. Mack on the other hand I'm less sure about, because we really didnt' need to move him at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(Yossarian @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) I agree, but not for a s***ty Class A pitcher. Yes even for a "s***ty" class A pitcher. There was NO reason not to make that trade, none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Given that Tad was a FA and we'd have spetn $1 mil and gotten nothing for him and not even gotten any time for Richar to learn the ropes of the big leagues, I think that getting anything to move Tad was a good thing, even if it's just a class A pitcher. Hmmm the way he's playing in Philly he looks like a guy a team would want to sign for next year. Yet we just assume the cheap ass White Sox couldn't afford him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 Sorry I will never agree with just giving a player like Iguchi away. Also, Richar despite his two hits tonite looks like another horses*** White Sox "prospect" to me. Iguchi, if he stays healthy has a couple more productive years in him. I don't romanticize Rowan, or any other ex Sox player. The Sox got something for him. I know Iguchi started off bad, is at the end of his contract, blah blah blah. I still wanted more for him, and no amount of torture will change my mind. 2B looks like another gaping hole in the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 QUOTE(Yossarian @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:54 PM) Sorry I will never agree with just giving a player like Iguchi away. Also, Richar despite his two hits tonite looks like another horses*** White Sox "prospect" to me. Iguchi, if he stays healthy has a couple more productive years in him. I don't romanticize Rowan, or any other ex Sox player. The Sox got something for him. I know Iguchi started off bad, is at the end of his contract, blah blah blah. I still wanted more for him, and no amount of torture will change my mind. 2B looks like another gaping hole in the wall. I can think of a certain 2Bman who put up a .595 OPS (.212/.266/.329) line over a 2 month span - 184 PA's - in his rookie season too. He's still playing and was a top 8 2Bman for about 5-7 years. I'll also say I think Richar's got a better shot at being a good big league player than Ryan Sweeney. Maybe you can compare that opinion to me also thinking it's going to be cold in December, but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:48 PM) Fine. 2B is a hole now( I don't agree, but for the sake of argument, lets say it is) Lets say Iguchi stays. Not traded at the deadline. Tad stays here to the season is over, hits his .260, puts up respectable numbers for a last place team. He then becomes a FA. We can re-sign him, or move in another direction. Those are the choices if he stays. Now the choices we currently have. Iguchi is gone, Richar is showing what he can do on an every day basis. If the Sox don't like what they see in Richar, they can re-sign Iguchi over the off-season, or move in another direction. Wow, pretty similar if he would have stayed, actually.... So with the trade of Iguchi, the Sox gave themself a two month window to see what they had in Richar, got a prospect out of the deal(a mediocre one at that, but a prospect) and still can go out and sign Iguchi, same as if they would have kept him. I have a hard time seeing what the problem is. Good post, probably a better approach than mine. I just don't trust them to go after a real 2bman if Richar continues to struggle at the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 1, 2007 -> 01:00 AM) I'll also say I think Richar's got a better shot at being a good big league player than Ryan Sweeney. Maybe you can compare that opinion to me also thinking it's going to be cold in December, but who knows. I don't think either one of them is going to amount to much, but yes I agree, Richar is more likely to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 QUOTE(Yossarian @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:54 PM) Sorry I will never agree with just giving a player like Iguchi away. Also, Richar despite his two hits tonite looks like another horses*** White Sox "prospect" to me. Iguchi, if he stays healthy has a couple more productive years in him. I don't romanticize Rowan, or any other ex Sox player. The Sox got something for him. I know Iguchi started off bad, is at the end of his contract, blah blah blah. I still wanted more for him, and no amount of torture will change my mind. 2B looks like another gaping hole in the wall. You do realize that the baseball players play under "contracts," right? Iguchi's contract is up at the end of this year, and this year does not matter at all. Plus, plus, plus, and here's the thing- because he came over from Japan and has not been in MLB enough years, LOSING HIM TO FREE AGENCY DOES NOT GET US AN DRAFT PICKS IN COMPENSATION. As Kalapse said, there is absolutely no reason at all to keep Iguchi and major reasons to get rid of him- get a look at top prospect, Richar and have the Phillies pay the $1 million left this year owed to Iguchi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:45 PM) Hmmm the way he's playing in Philly he looks like a guy a team would want to sign for next year. Yet we just assume the cheap ass White Sox couldn't afford him. It would make sense for you to look at where the Sox rank in terms of payroll among the other teams. You are uninformed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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