whitesoxgt Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) I Personally Think They Did The Topic Should Say " Did Da Orioles Get More In Return For Trachsel Than We Did For Iguchi/Mackowiack mackowiack got cut out Edited August 31, 2007 by whitesoxgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 How are the two situations comparable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Gooch was basically addition by subtraction. What was the point of keeping him. Plus...I think Kenny felt bad he traded damaged goods in Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) We needed to deal Mackowiak for an aging A ball player so we could get Andy Gonzalez some quality at bats. /extreme sarcasm above Not sure about Dubee (the kid acquired for Iguchi), but overall the deals made were head scratchers with players coming to Chicago that possessed very little (if any) upside. Dealing quality players under the auspices of turning positions over to up and coming players only works if said 'up and coming players' can actually hit their weight. All in all, Williams and Ozzies management of this franchise has been very questionable at best since the World Series. Edited August 31, 2007 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Both Iguchi and Mackowiak will be available via free agency this offseason if the Sox just can't go on without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 01:51 PM) We needed to deal Mackowiak for an aging A ball player so we could get Andy Gonzalez some quality at bats. /extreme sarcasm above Not sure about Dubee (the kid acquired for Iguchi), but overall the deals made were head scratchers with players coming to Chicago that possessed very little (if any) upside. Dealing quality players under the auspices of turning positions over to up and coming players only works if said 'up and coming players' can actually hit their weight. All in all, Williams and Ozzies management of this franchise has been very questionable at best since the World Series. Part of it does seem like a "make good" because of the Garcia deal. Willie Harris...Richar...we've seen this before w/ Durham and Iguchi, and Ray was a better player (but even more expensive, albeit not as old as Tad). If we kept those two guys and we 10 games under .500, how would we be in any better shape? They'd still be gone in the offseason...our team would still be aging and getting WORSE from a fielding perspective...and Rob M. would still be a 4th/5th outfielder type. Nothing more, nothing less. We saw what happened in 2006 when he was an everyday player. As much as we might like Ozuna, Rob M. or Ross Gload, they are utility players for a reason...although 99% of Sox fans would take Pablo back at this point over Andy Gonzalez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayitaintso Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(caulfield12 @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) Part of it does seem like a "make good" because of the Garcia deal. Willie Harris...Richar...we've seen this before w/ Durham and Iguchi, and Ray was a better player (but even more expensive, albeit not as old as Tad). If we kept those two guys and we 10 games under .500, how would we be in any better shape? They'd still be gone in the offseason...our team would still be aging and getting WORSE from a fielding perspective...and Rob M. would still be a 4th/5th outfielder type. Nothing more, nothing less. We saw what happened in 2006 when he was an everyday player. As much as we might like Ozuna, Rob M. or Ross Gload, they are utility players for a reason...although 99% of Sox fans would take Pablo back at this point over Andy Gonzalez! So are you saying that you are in that 99%, or the other 1%? Because I personally would rather have Pablo than Andy because at least Pablo showed that he could hit ML pitching once. And on a side note, who did the O's even get for Trachsel? Edited August 31, 2007 by sayitaintso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 01:55 PM) Both Iguchi and Mackowiak will be available via free agency this offseason if the Sox just can't go on without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:55 AM) Both Iguchi and Mackowiak will be available via free agency this offseason if the Sox just can't go on without them. I think there is a chance Mack will be brought back. Or at least a decent one. The thing is Mack was making too much for a bench player on a poor team and the Sox hopefully will use some of that money on the draft and international free agents in the up-coming year (same with Iguchi's money). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) I think there is a chance Mack will be brought back. Or at least a decent one. The thing is Mack was making too much for a bench player on a poor team and the Sox hopefully will use some of that money on the draft and international free agents in the up-coming year (same with Iguchi's money). If Mack is brought back this offseason then that was a very good trade by KW. He got a nice arm for him (Link has done well at WS), he saved $1M off the '06 payroll, he got someone else to pay Mack's $300K buyout for him ($1.3M in savings overall) and he can bring him back via free agency at a discounted rate, maybe $1.3M a year on a 2 year deal (this way the Padres sort of pay Mack's '08 salary)? Mackowiak is a good ballplayer who can be a very good role player on a Championship team, will be relatively inexpensive, grew up a Sox fan in Oaklawn and seemingly loved it here for the 1.4 seasons that he was in Chicago. It's a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 QUOTE(Wanne @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 11:40 AM) Gooch was basically addition by subtraction. What was the point of keeping him. Plus...I think Kenny felt bad he traded damaged goods in Garcia. Frankly I don't understand the concept of a " make good" deal. The trade was made . Garcia broke down. Too freakin' bad for Phillie. They knew the risks going into the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 31, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) If Mack is brought back this offseason then that was a very good trade by KW. He got a nice arm for him (Link has done well at WS), he saved $1M off the '06 payroll, he got someone else to pay Mack's $300K buyout for him ($1.3M in savings overall) and he can bring him back via free agency at a discounted rate, maybe $1.3M a year on a 2 year deal (this way the Padres sort of pay Mack's '08 salary)? Mackowiak is a good ballplayer who can be a very good role player on a Championship team, will be relatively inexpensive, grew up a Sox fan in Oaklawn and seemingly loved it here for the 1.4 seasons that he was in Chicago. It's a good fit. I'd be pretty happy with bringing Mack back, but I doubt Guillen would use him well. Mack is a useful guy and wold be nice insurance if someone at 3B/2B/LF flames out plus he gets on base OK. The sad part is that Ozzie refused to use him in the infield or at the top of the order where he would be more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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