OK so answer this please about winning this time of year

[greg775]

Some Sox fans in the game threads differ with me in opinion on this.

I want the Sox to win tonight and every night because I am a die hard fan, I live for the season and this is my team. I'm embarrassed by losing. I hate losing.

Some other fans want us to lose tonight and every night so we'll get the No. 1 draft pick.

I want to know if I am a fool.

Do you want the Sox to win ... or lose each game the rest of the way since the team is going nowhere fast??

Thanx.

Edited September 4, 2007 by greg775

[Heads22]

I clicked both cause I'll always want the team to win, but I think that losing now could help us more in the future.

[SoxAce]

This is really getting to you isn't it Greg?

[sayitaintso]

I mean sure, its nice to win games, i would like for the sox to win games, don't get me wrong. BUT, the situation that we are in RIGHT NOW, the only thing winning games does is potentially hurt us from getting the top pick in the upcoming draft. NOW, if the sox, lets say, didn't suck and were actually in the race, then i like any other sox fan would want them to win. But really, i would like for them to lose just so we can actually get some top talent in the draft for once. I have gotten used to them losing by now so i really don't care anymore, i get more upset when they win and TB loses, because all they do is stock up their farm system with even better talent then they had before with every loss they recieve.

[Rowand44]

This season is an embarrasment already, winning meaningless games doesn't change that. Winning games at this point does absolutely nothing for this organization, losing on the other hand could. I want the first pick, I want this team to lose right now.

[SoxAce]

I mean sure, its nice to win games, i would like for the sox to win games, don't get me wrong. BUT, the situation that we are in RIGHT NOW, the only thing winning games does is potentially hurt us from getting the top pick in the upcoming draft. NOW, if the sox, lets say, didn't suck and were actually in the race, then i like any other sox fan would want them to win. But really, i would like for them to lose just so we can actually get some top talent in the draft for once. I have gotten used to them losing by now so i really don't care anymore, i get more upset when they win and TB loses, because all they do is stock up their farm system with even better talent then they had before with every loss they recieve.

 

Very solid post.

[The Critic]

I want them to win every time they play, but I understand the draft pick people's point of view.

I just can't bring myself to hope for losses.

[max power]

Where is the "I don't really care at this point" option? Its not that I don't care about the sox, its more that I understand both opinions.

Edited September 4, 2007 by max power

[Flash Tizzle]

I don't want them to lose every game -- just three less than games than Tampa Bay. Or however many is necessary to achieve the top draft position.

 

Pedro Alvarez, from accounts on Baseball America and PGCrosschecker, is a generational talent. He's the consensus #1 pick nearly 9 months before the draft. Who knows, perhaps next baseball season several more players emerge and make our decision that much more difficult. I just know there hasn't been discussions of who'll be available at #5-#7, where a prolonged winning streak (>5 games) could send us.

 

Try to look at it from this perspective, Greg -- in 2010, will you look back upon 2007 and think to yourself, "well, I'm sure glad we won 75 games instead of 65 games"? I believe you're looking at this issue all wrong. You can't look past the present, whereas those of us who understand the importance someone such as Pedro Alvarez holds for our future couldn't care less about winning meaningless games.

 

Rooting for the Sox to lose doesn't make you less of a fan. We're all looking out for the team's best interests. You (and two other people) believe winning every games hold symbolic importance. Eight others and myself look at losing every game as improving the chances that the White Sox have an opportunity to draft impact player. Something we're desperately missing.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[GoodAsGould]

I dont want to lose but at this point i understand its actually more beneficial for the team. Right now we are in position for the 2nd overall pick in the draft I think and with an outside shot of maybe even getting the 1st.... and if its choosing to win 5 more games but going up to the 5th-6th pick or keep on our losing ways and be 1st or 2nd.... id choose the latter.

[Jeremy]

As others have suggested, on a practical level, the team is better off losing than winning. Trading five wins this year for five wins that could actually make a difference between reaching the playoffs and staying home five years from now is more than worth it.

 

On a much more perverse note, I almost get a kick out of the losses these days. I think part of it is vindication because I was critical of the teams moves (or lack thereof) in the off season and part of it is entertainment, like a car wreck you can't look away from. That will probably upset some people but hey, I'm just being honest. Perhaps some of it is also hope that the worse the team plays, the more the organization will be pressured into making changes next season but that doesn't seem to be happening.

[joejoesox]

we could've had porcello before detroit got him, i have no faith in this organization actually farming up great players, so us getting a first pick probably would look something like

 

"And the Chicago White Sox, with their first pick of the 2008 Player Draft select ."

(Camera pans to KW High-Fiving JR)

Meanwhile, back at soxtalk.....

 

Poster1: WTF?

Poster2: lol, why am I not surprised?

Poster3: IT'Z BECAUSE OF BORAS

 

etc.etc.

[Jeremy]

As others have suggested, on a practical level, the team is better off losing than winning. Trading five wins this year for five wins that could actually make a difference between reaching the playoffs and staying home five years from now is more than worth it.

 

On a much more perverse note, I almost get a kick out of the losses these days. I think part of it is vindication because I was critical of the teams moves (or lack thereof) in the off season and part of it is entertainment, like a car wreck you can't look away from. That will probably upset some people but hey, I'm just being honest. Perhaps some of it is also hope that the worse the team plays, the more the organization will be pressured into making changes next season but that doesn't seem to be happening.

[Yossarian]

I want them to win every time they play, but I understand the draft pick people's point of view.

I just can't bring myself to hope for losses.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Flash Tizzle]

This thread is one reason why Soxtalk. Just the fact this thread exists and no one has yet to chime in with a smart-ass response of questioning fan devotion. Or suggesting something demeaning such as "this thread sucks."

 

Truthfully, it's the question everyone has asked, yet, up until now, has never been addressed on its own. When I browse that other Sox-related website, I get the distinct impression people are almost afraid to even suggest it. I haven't even seen one person raise the possibility that losing more games for the first overall selection may benefit our future. For a website with over double the number of members Soxtalk has, I find it quite odd no one has discussed the issue previously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fathom]

From my point of view, it's real simple....if we had lost one more game in 2002, we would have had the OPPORTUNITY to select Cole Hamels. Instead, the Phillies had a pick one spot higher, and they could take him, and we took Royce Ring.

[Flash Tizzle]

we could've had porcello before detroit got him, i have no faith in this organization actually farming up great players, so us getting a first pick probably would look something like

 

"And the Chicago White Sox, with their first pick of the 2008 Player Draft select ."

(Camera pans to KW High-Fiving JR)

Meanwhile, back at soxtalk.....

 

Poster1: WTF?

Poster2: lol, why am I not surprised?

Poster3: IT'Z BECAUSE OF BORAS

 

etc.etc.

Aside from those points, you know what's going to be even better if they select someone projected to fall far out of 1st? Because the draft is televised, we'll actually get to SEE whomever is chosen walk up to the front of the stage, put on a White Sox hat, and smile while their picture is taken with Selig. It'll be an image forever edged into our minds when more talented players are chosen afterwards.

 

Additionally, you can count on Reifert writing an article which begins "(insert player) was their choice along."

 

2006:

 

McCulloch was our player all along. Our scouting staff was hoping he would still be available and on the board when we picked, late in the first round, at 29.

 

Everyone in the conference room, about 20 people in all, including Ken Williams, Rick Hahn and Duane Shaffer, held their breath late in the first round, especially when the Red Sox had back-to-back picks at 27 and 28.

 

"Congratulations," Williams said to Shaffer once it was clear we got our guy.

http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th.../draft_day.html

 

2007:

 

The White Sox selected left-handed pitcher Aaron Poreda of the University of San Francisco with the 25th pick in the 2007 First-Year Player Draft. (see our press release on whitesox.com for details).

 

Aaron was our guy, and the room was filled with excitement and congratulations after the pick.

http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th...e_the_draf.html

 

 

[Flash Tizzle]

From my point of view, it's real simple....if we had lost one more game in 2002, we would have had the OPPORTUNITY to select Cole Hamels. Instead, the Phillies had a pick one spot higher, and they could take him, and we took Royce Ring.

I've mentioned this before, as well. Who knows whether we'd have selected him, but looking back on 2002, would it have mattered one bit if the White Sox lost several more games? Imagine if we miss Alvarez or someone else highly talented because of several extra victories this season...

Edited September 4, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[EvilMonkey]

I don't mourn the losses, but part of me still smiles when they win. I just pray they have enough brains to make the right pick, whoever it is, come draft day.

[Yossarian]

When I browse that other Sox-related website, I get the distinct impression people are almost afraid to even suggest it. I haven't even seen one person raise the possibility that losing more games for the first overall selection may benefit our future. For a website with over double the number of members Soxtalk has, I find it quite odd no one has discussed the issue previously.

If it's the same web site I'm thinking of, there's more than a little fear involved. So many of their best posters have been banished to cyber Siberia for having the temerity to post opinions that displease the founder and some of his mods.

[Yossarian]

I don't mourn the losses, but part of me still smiles when they win. I just pray they have enough brains to make the right pick, whoever it is, come draft day.

I don't trust them to pick the best available player. Who ever they pick I don't trust them to realize the highest potential of said player. I've totally lost faith in this organization to draft and develop players, and they have a long way to go before I change my mind.

 

[RockRaines]

Its pretty hilarious how the 29th pick from the sox is being compared to the possible #1 pick of the draft. They are apples and oranges people

[bjm676]

It would be nice to have a Top 10 pick, which we will probably get anyway. I remember the days of Larry Himes and Ron Schueler selecting quality prospects in Frank Thomas, Robin Ventura, Jack McDowell, Alex Fernandez, etc.

 

Something tells me even with a Top 10 or even a Top 5 pick, KW will pick yet ANOTHER pitcher with a low ceiling who won't even sniff AAA. But that's JMO.

[RockRaines]

Something tells me even with a Top 10 or even a Top 5 pick, KW will pick yet ANOTHER pitcher with a low ceiling who won't even sniff AAA. But that's JMO.

What in the hell would ever give you that impression? How many people pick a low ceiling ANYTHING with the #2 or #1 pick.

[fathom]

What in the hell would ever give you that impression? How many people pick a low ceiling ANYTHING with the #2 or #1 pick.

 

It baffles me how scared some people think having a top 3 pick is. Instead of trying to find a reason to be pessimistic about it, people should be excited as hell.