OK so answer this please about winning this time of year

[Yossarian]

The baseball draft has always been dicier and harder to predict than say football or basketball. The baseball landscape is littered with first round busts. A high pick in baseball is no guarantee. The Sox are going to need several Larry Himes era drafts in a row to build a depleted farm system. Of course, I hope they manage to pull it off. They've been lousy at this for so long, that as far them drafting players is concerned, I'm from Missouri.

[29andPoplar]

It'll be an image forever edged into our minds when more talented players are chosen afterwards.

 

Additionally, you can count on Reifert writing an article which begins "(insert player) was their choice along."

 

Seems to me just about every major league team comes out with a similar article after the draft.

[WCSox]

The baseball draft has always been dicier and harder to predict than say football or basketball. The baseball landscape is littered with first round busts.

 

As is the NFL.

 

[RockRaines]

It baffles me how scared some people think having a top 3 pick is. Instead of trying to find a reason to be pessimistic about it, people should be excited as hell.

Having the #1 or #2 pick in the draft would HELP a GM that you are unsure of, not hurt them. Those are usually the most obvious picks in the draft.

[klaus kinski]

I want Garland or Contreras to win out-then replace them with something we need now

[michelangelosmonkey]

From my point of view, it's real simple....if we had lost one more game in 2002, we would have had the OPPORTUNITY to select Cole Hamels. Instead, the Phillies had a pick one spot higher, and they could take him, and we took Royce Ring.

 

Winning is always a good thing. Rooting to lose so we move up a spot because we're terrible just has not proven to be a great stategy (in baseball). Everyone loves the Twins here...and the twins were horrible in the 90's and here's there top ten drafting:

Year Overall pick PLayer

1991 3 David Mccarty

1994 8 Todd Walker

1996 2 Travis Lee

1997 9 Michael Cuddyer

1998 6 Ryan Mills

1999 5 BJ Garbe

2000 2 Adam Johnson

 

That's 7 top ten picks in ten years...and the best is Cuddyer who's a RF with a career .790 OPS? It's SO unknowable...that I would rather have the brief happiness and hope of going into the off season with a 18-6 last 24.

[Yossarian]

Winning is always a good thing. Rooting to lose so we move up a spot because we're terrible just has not proven to be a great stategy (in baseball). Everyone loves the Twins here...and the twins were horrible in the 90's and here's there top ten drafting:

Year Overall pick PLayer

1991 3 David Mccarty

1994 8 Todd Walker

1996 2 Travis Lee

1997 9 Michael Cuddyer

1998 6 Ryan Mills

1999 5 BJ Garbe

2000 2 Adam Johnson

 

That's 7 top ten picks in ten years...and the best is Cuddyer who's a RF with a career .790 OPS? It's SO unknowable...that I would rather have the brief happiness and hope of going into the off season with a 18-6 last 24.

Excellent.

 

[Rowand44]

Winning is always a good thing. Rooting to lose so we move up a spot because we're terrible just has not proven to be a great stategy (in baseball). Everyone loves the Twins here...and the twins were horrible in the 90's and here's there top ten drafting:

Year Overall pick PLayer

1991 3 David Mccarty

1994 8 Todd Walker

1996 2 Travis Lee

1997 9 Michael Cuddyer

1998 6 Ryan Mills

1999 5 BJ Garbe

2000 2 Adam Johnson

 

That's 7 top ten picks in ten years...and the best is Cuddyer who's a RF with a career .790 OPS? It's SO unknowable...that I would rather have the brief happiness and hope of going into the off season with a 18-6 last 24.

Go ahead and look at our last 4 top 10 picks. We pretty much haven't selected a good player with our first pick since those years until Fields a few years back.

 

I still don't understand how people could get satisfaction out of winning meaningless games. I guess that's the part I'm missing here.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Rowand44

[witesoxfan]

Winning is always a good thing. Rooting to lose so we move up a spot because we're terrible just has not proven to be a great stategy (in baseball). Everyone loves the Twins here...and the twins were horrible in the 90's and here's there top ten drafting:

Year Overall pick PLayer

1991 3 David Mccarty

1994 8 Todd Walker

1996 2 Travis Lee

1997 9 Michael Cuddyer

1998 6 Ryan Mills

1999 5 BJ Garbe

2000 2 Adam Johnson

 

That's 7 top ten picks in ten years...and the best is Cuddyer who's a RF with a career .790 OPS? It's SO unknowable...that I would rather have the brief happiness and hope of going into the off season with a 18-6 last 24.

 

Use just the 90s so you don't have to bring up Joe Mauer. I like it. A franchise catcher is something I'd absolutely love to have.

 

Ironically enough, he was the #1 pick.

[Controlled Chaos]

QUOTE(The Critic @ Sep 3, 2007 -> 11:44 PM)

I want them to win every time they play, but I understand the draft pick people's point of view.

I just can't bring myself to hope for losses.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

Ditto

[michelangelosmonkey]

Use just the 90s so you don't have to bring up Joe Mauer. I like it. A franchise catcher is something I'd absolutely love to have.

 

Ironically enough, he was the #1 pick.

Come on. I used a ten year period. If you want to use an eleven year period...fine. They got Joe Mauer. So they were so bad that they drafted top ten for 8 of 11 years and added Joe Mauer with those high picks. I don't WANT to be horrible for 8 years so I can add one very good player. My point was, and remains if you add Joe Mauer, top 10 picks in the ML draft assure nothing. And winning meaningless games still feels good.

[Rowand44]

Come on. I used a ten year period. If you want to use an eleven year period...fine. They got Joe Mauer. So they were so bad that they drafted top ten for 8 of 11 years and added Joe Mauer with those high picks. I don't WANT to be horrible for 8 years so I can add one very good player. My point was, and remains if you add Joe Mauer, top 10 picks in the ML draft assure nothing. And winning meaningless games still feels good.

See getting the top pick in the draft can help this franchise improve big time in a few years, much more than winning these meaningless games can. Nobody wants to continue to be awful but this season is shot so winning means absolutely nothing. Pedro Alvarez for instance can be that franchise player, that special talent that this franchise is obviously lacking. There's a chance that he could be our Arod or our Griffey or our Mauer who were all number 1 picks by the way. He's a type of talent that doesn't come around very often and he can be a member of the White Sox, I'll take that over wins that do nothing for the franchise.

[RockRaines]

Come on. I used a ten year period. If you want to use an eleven year period...fine. They got Joe Mauer. So they were so bad that they drafted top ten for 8 of 11 years and added Joe Mauer with those high picks. I don't WANT to be horrible for 8 years so I can add one very good player. My point was, and remains if you add Joe Mauer, top 10 picks in the ML draft assure nothing. And winning meaningless games still feels good.

Well. How many of those afformentioned picks were the #1 pick? Joe mauer was. So if we keep losing we get OUR Joe mauer.

 

How about this list instead:

 

#1 draft picks

 

1990 Chipper jones

1991 brien taylor

1992 Phil Nevin

1993 A-Rod

1994 Paul Wilson

1995 Darin Erstad

1996 Kris Benson

1997 Matt Anderson

1998 Pat Burrell

1999 Josh Hamilton

2000 Adrian Gonzalez

2001 Joe Mauer

2002 Bryan Bullington

2003 Delmon Young

2004 Matt Bush

2005 Justin Upton

2006 Luke hochevar

2007 David price

 

 

 

I would say getting the number 1 pick greatly increases your chances of drafting an impact player moreso than any other position in the draft.

Edited September 4, 2007 by RockRaines

[michelangelosmonkey]

Well. How many of those afformentioned picks were the #1 pick? Joe mauer was. So if we keep losing we get OUR Joe mauer.

 

How about this list instead:

 

#1 draft picks

 

1990 Chipper jones

1991 brien taylor

1992 Phil Nevin

1993 A-Rod

1994 Paul Wilson

1995 Darin Erstad

1996 Kris Benson

1997 Matt Anderson

1998 Pat Burrell

1999 Josh Hamilton

2000 Adrian Gonzalez

2001 Joe Mauer

2002 Bryan Bullington

2003 Delmon Young

2004 Matt Bush

2005 Justin Upton

2006 Luke hochevar

2007 David price

I would say getting the number 1 pick greatly increases your chances of drafting an impact player moreso than any other position in the draft.

 

As you point it out to me...it HAS been kind of a freakish year. Looks like 95 losses might get you the number one pick...when most years you need more like 105 loses. So yeah dumping may make sense in this year.

 

Still...from your list of number ones overall you have 3 stars out of 12. PLus a couple of good players. I'd put post 2002 in the "unproven" box. Then you have:

Joe Mauer career OPS .854

Adrian Gonzalez career OPS .830

Josh Hamilton--nothing yet

Pat Bureel: career .848

Matt Anderson 15-7 5.2 ERA

Kris Benson 68-73 4.4 ERA

Darin Erstad--grinderstad...753 career ops

Paul Wilson 40-58 4.86ERA

Arod...superstar

Phil Nevin career .815 OPS

Brien Tayler--no appearance.

Chipper Jones Star

Go back to every #1 overall pick since 1965 and there are only THREE with career OPS over .900...Ken Griffey Jr, Arod and Chipper. And not a single pitcher with +20 wins over losses in his career...only a couple with 150 victories...maybe the best Andy Benes? Floyd Bannister? Seems like about once a decade you get a dream player. Seems just as likely to get him at #7 like Frank Thomas or, say Jake Peavey in the 15th round.

 

 

 

 

[Kalapse]

What's the downside to losing?

[michelangelosmonkey]

What's the downside to losing?

On Saturday the Sox lost 7-0. On Sunday they won 8-0. Tell me you didn't feel better? And the number of superstars at, say #5 since 1965...Mark Teixeira, JD Drew, Vernon Wells, Jack McDowell, Dwight Gooden, Dale Murphy. Or #6...Rocco Baldelli, Derek Jeter, Barry Bonds, Gary Sheffield, Andy Van Slyke...is not wildly worse than the group at #1 over all.

 

Winning makes me feel good and I think losing doesn't particularly ensure anything. In the NFL being worst ensures you the best Quarterback in the draft (Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Michael Vick in the last ten years) and an easier schedule.

[RockRaines]

Josh Hamilton is one of the front runners for NL ROY. I would say he was a good, but very sidetracked pick. Delmon Young is looking to be a pretty good player, and I would gladly take a player like him. Most importantly, which you missed in your post, is that the #1 pick is much more frequently an impact player over the rest of the top 5 and top 10 picks.

[Kalapse]

On Saturday the Sox lost 7-0. On Sunday they won 8-0. Tell me you didn't feel better? And the number of superstars at, say #5 since 1965...Mark Teixeira, JD Drew, Vernon Wells, Jack McDowell, Dwight Gooden, Dale Murphy. Or #6...Rocco Baldelli, Derek Jeter, Barry Bonds, Gary Sheffield, Andy Van Slyke...is not wildly worse than the group at #1 over all.

 

Winning makes me feel good and I think losing doesn't particularly ensure anything. In the NFL being worst ensures you the best Quarterback in the draft (Carson Palmer, Peyton Manning, Michael Vick in the last ten years) and an easier schedule.

I barely watched either game so I didn't really have any feelings either way but I suppose the loss made me feel better than the win since the loss can only help this team in the long run and the win will do absolutely nothing.

 

Having the #1 pick would allow for the Sox to take their guy, they can draft the player who they feel is the absolute best player in the draft. If there's someone that a scout or KW has fallen in love with and they think he's the balls then they can take him, no one can stop them. Picking up an extra meanings 7 wins at the end of a miserable season and pushing the draft pick back to #8 would only limit the White Sox's draft flexibility. Flexibility can only be a good thing IMO. I couldn't care less about past top 3-5 picks, the Sox having the ability to take their guy, someone who people feel is the most talented player in the draft sounds pretty damn good to me.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Josh Hamilton is one of the front runners for NL ROY. I would say he was a good, but very sidetracked pick. Delmon Young is looking to be a pretty good player, and I would gladly take a player like him. Most importantly, which you missed in your post, is that the #1 pick is much more frequently an impact player over the rest of the top 5 and top 10 picks.

 

Josh Hamilton has had a very good 282 at bats. At 22, playing shortstop, Juan Uribe in 273 at bats had an .850 OPS. It's way too early to make a judgement on Hamilton...at 26. It would be fun to have Delmon Young in the system. But Chris Young is every bit as intriguing a CF prospect and he was drafted in the 15th round. And It's not MUCH more frequently...it's more frequently. And you'd probably be better off trading #1 overall pick for a teams 10-30th rounds.

[Rowand44]

I barely watched either game so I didn't really have any feelings either way but I suppose the loss made me feel better than the win since the loss can only help this team in the long run and the win will do absolutely nothing.

 

Having the #1 pick would allow for the Sox to take their guy, they can draft the player who they feel is the absolute best player in the draft. If there's someone that a scout or KW has fallen in love with and they think he's the balls then they can take him, no one can stop them. Picking up an extra meanings 7 wins at the end of a miserable season and pushing the draft pick back to #8 would only limit the White Sox's draft flexibility. Flexibility can only be a good thing IMO. I couldn't care less about past top 3-5 picks, the Sox having the ability to take their guy, someone who people feel is the most talented player in the draft sounds pretty damn good to me.

The 1 pick has also produced two of the most talented players ever in recent memory. Not that I'm comparing Alvarez or anyone in this draft to Jr. or Arod but you get a shot at a real special talent with the 1 pick.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Rowand44

[michelangelosmonkey]

I barely watched either game so I didn't really have any feelings either way but I suppose the loss made me feel better than the win since the loss can only help this team in the long run and the win will do absolutely nothing.

 

Having the #1 pick would allow for the Sox to take their guy, they can draft the player who they feel is the absolute best player in the draft. If there's someone that a scout or KW has fallen in love with and they think he's the balls then they can take him, no one can stop them. Picking up an extra meanings 7 wins at the end of a miserable season and pushing the draft pick back to #8 would only limit the White Sox's draft flexibility. Flexibility can only be a good thing IMO. I couldn't care less about past top 3-5 picks, the Sox having the ability to take their guy, someone who people feel is the most talented player in the draft sounds pretty damn good to me.

I've already surrendured on this...as I pointed out earlier...I wasn't watching very closely either...and the Sox are real close to the #1 overall pick because they need not be abysmal this year. 95 losses versus 105 losses...THIS year. But to get a whiff at #1 overall and it means losing 105? I don't ever want that because I think its still not a sure thing. Though yes, MORE of a sure thing.

[Kalapse]

The 1 pick has also produced two of the most talented players ever in recent memory. Not that I'm comparing Alvarez or anyone in this draft to Jr. or Arod but you get a shot at a real special talent with the 1 pick.

Hell, just in a 4 year span the #1 overall pick produced possibly the greatest offensive 3B the game has ever seen (Jones does have the highest OPS for a 3B , though I'm sure Schmidt would get the majority of the votes) and quite possibly the best player to every play the game.

[Kalapse]

I've already surrendured on this...as I pointed out earlier...I wasn't watching very closely either...and the Sox are real close to the #1 overall pick because they need not be abysmal this year. 95 losses versus 105 losses...THIS year. But to get a whiff at #1 overall and it means losing 105? I don't ever want that because I think its still not a sure thing. Though yes, MORE of a sure thing.

"More" of a sure thing is better than "less" of a sure thing especially when we're talking about 100% meaningless games. I understand your point of view here but there's just no downside to losing in my mind. I suppose we can leave it at that.

[Rowand44]

Hell, just in a 4 year span the #1 overall pick produced possibly the greatest offensive 3B the game has ever seen (Jones does have the highest OPS for a 3B , though I'm sure Schmidt would get the majority of the votes) and quite possibly the best player to every play the game.

I've honestly never realized just how great Chipper has been until the past few weeks. Obviously he's been a very good player through out his career, I just didn't realize he was this good.

[witesoxfan]

Hell, just in a 4 year span the #1 overall pick produced possibly the greatest offensive 3B the game has ever seen (Jones does have the highest OPS for a 3B , though I'm sure Schmidt would get the majority of the votes) and quite possibly the best player to every play the game.

 

Bonds was drafted 6th overall

 

:D