Great Falls White Sox

[Cerbaho-WG]

I think he's a college pitcher throwing in the rookie leagues, and putting anything down on paper about his ETA is irresponsible.

 

When you think about what Gio did in his first professional season out of HS, and where he is today, Poreda doesn't really look all that special.

 

Do you get off by s***ting on anything that is in our minor-league system?

 

Twenty-year-old in advanced rookie ball has a WHIP under one, SO/IP > 1, H/9 at 5.63. Yeah, not impressive in the least.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Do you get off by s***ting on anything that is in our minor-league system?

 

Twenty-year-old in advanced rookie ball has a WHIP under one, SO/IP > 1, H/9 at 5.63. Yeah, not impressive in the least.

Pot.kettle.black much?

 

The only player I've crapped on is Collaro, deservedly. I called for Wasserman's (as well as Day's) promotion in June, and have been on board the Egbert train for a while. Not to mention DLS.

 

I don't think rookie ball stats hold much weight, for anyone. I'll always hold my breath until a player puts up good numbers in full-season ball. Then I hold my breath again until they do it at AA or above.

 

But honestly, can you look at the White Sox system and name two future stars without repeating yourself? I can't. Gio is a smaller Danks. DLS has star potential, but has only a handful of starts above lo-A. Carter can hit, but he's a future DH. Miranda looks like a great 13th round pick, but his best comp at this point is Jason Bartlett. Sweeney, well you s*** on him more than I s*** on Collaro.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Oh, of course, because I think Sweeney and Collaro are overrated, I'm the same as you, the one who will find any reason to b**** and moan about the minor league system.

 

Look, it's perfectly acceptable to be pessimistic about the minor-league system because it's pretty bad. But when you start grasping at straws with Poreda or start comparing Gio to Danks (look at their stats, especially BAA and H/9 and try and make the comparison again), it comes across as trolling or mere thread s***ting.

 

With regards to your judging talent tripe, it's apparently acceptable for you to wait for players to impress you in AA, but 50 IP in the Pioneer League is enough for you to say that the player isn't special. Perfect sense.

[Gene Honda Civic]

With regards to your judging talent tripe, it's apparently acceptable for you to wait for players to impress you in AA, but 50 IP in the Pioneer League is enough for you to say that the player isn't special. Perfect sense.

That's the point, which you seem to be missing. I believe rookie league stats are about as valuable as a wooden nickel. 5innnings 50 innings. it doesn't really matter.

 

I don't care if you beat up a retarded midget once or 10 times, you're still picking on a retarded midget.

 

I might be excited if he was doing this out of HS. Or if he had some secondary pitches. But right now he's just a lefty with one pitch. It's a plus, mid-90's pitch, but the competition he's playing against has never seen anything like that before. The results are not surprising, or particularly meaningful.

 

A college first rounder is supposed to destroy inferior competition like that in the PIO league. Excuse me for not creaming myself.

 

Here's a list of recent Sox first rounders, and how they fared in their initial assignment to rookie ball.

 

Brian Anderson -- 1.075 OPS

McCulloch -- 1.64 ERA 27K in 22 IP

Gio -- 2.25 ERA 36 K in 24 IP

Ring -- 0.00 ERA 9K in 5IP

Borchard -- 1.037 OPS

 

I'm glad Poreda hasn't failed. But he hasn't proved crap yet.

[daa84]

That's the point, which you seem to be missing. I believe rookie league stats are about as valuable as a wooden nickel. 5innnings 50 innings. it doesn't really matter.

 

I don't care if you beat up a retarded midget once or 10 times, you're still picking on a retarded midget.

 

I might be excited if he was doing this out of HS. Or if he had some secondary pitches. But right now he's just a lefty with one pitch. It's a plus, mid-90's pitch, but the competition he's playing against has never seen anything like that before. The results are not surprising, or particularly meaningful.

 

A college first rounder is supposed to destroy inferior competition like that in the PIO league. Excuse me for not creaming myself.

 

Here's a list of recent Sox first rounders, and how they fared in their initial assignment to rookie ball.

 

Brian Anderson -- 1.075 OPS

McCulloch -- 1.64 ERA 27K in 22 IP

Gio -- 2.25 ERA 36 K in 24 IP

Ring -- 0.00 ERA 9K in 5IP

Borchard -- 1.037 OPS

 

I'm glad Poreda hasn't failed. But he hasn't proved crap yet.

yeah i agree....rookie ball is often a lower level of baseball than the more elite college conferences

[fathom]

I'll compare Danks to Gio....I don't think either are anything more than a #5 starter in the majors.

[Flash Tizzle]

I'll compare Danks to Gio....I don't think either are anything more than a #5 starter in the majors.

If Gonzalez is nothing more than a fifth starter (a notion I personally disagree with), we're in HUGE trouble.

 

He'll probably be listed as a Top 25 prospect by most reputable publications. I'm surprised to hear this from you, Fathom. I'd have to guess you're concerned about his durability, because the statistics don't indicate to me someone -- if healthy -- remaining as a 5th starter.

 

I believe it's reasonable to expect him to achieve the production of a #3 starter. Perhaps 4.25-4.50ERA, 180IP/150K/70BB.

Edited September 15, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Jack Parkman]

I'll compare Danks to Gio....I don't think either are anything more than a #5 starter in the majors.

If that's what you believe, then I'd take it that you'd condone KW trading each of them away this offseason to fill holes at other positions or to upgrade from them to someone else. What did you think of McCarthy then? AAAA? Bullpen?

 

[danman31]

Great Falls lost 3-2 in 16. Poreda was dominant as usual. They had the bases loaded no outs in the 11th (or something around there) and didn't score at all, yuck.

[29andPoplar]

Here are all the details.

 

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/apps/pbcs...PORTS/709150323

 

Manager Chris Cron got tossed from the game in the bottom of the 16th. Salvador Sanchez was on 1st with the tying run and Jim Gallagher was called out for batter interference with Sanchez attempting to steal 2nd. Sanchez was also called out (double play) and Cron went ballistic. Two other Sox players were ejected earlier in the game protesting the home plate umpire's calls.

[hitlesswonder]

If that's what you believe, then I'd take it that you'd condone KW trading each of them away this offseason to fill holes at other positions or to upgrade from them to someone else. What did you think of McCarthy then? AAAA? Bullpen?

Trading either Danks or Gio would be fine with me. Trade both even. Neither one is an elite pitching prospect. I agree that Danks looks like a 5th starter with limited upside right now.

Edited September 15, 2007 by hitlesswonder

[BearSox]

I find it laughable that Danks is now nothing more then a 5th starter now because he ran into some trouble in his ROOKIE season. Jon Garland got knocked around pretty good his rookie season. I'd say he is better then a 5th starter. That's just one example... there have been plenty of good middle of the rotation guys who in their rookie season sucked.

 

Now, I am not going to say Danks is going to be an ace or no. 2, but I think he will at least be a 4 but probably a 3. And call me crazy, he will be better then McCarthy.

[BearSox]

Trading either Danks or Gio would be fine with me. Trade both even. Neither one is an elite pitching prospect. I agree that Danks looks like a 5th starter with limited upside right now.

lolz. Gio is considered one of the top lhp prospects in baseball. He is a top 25 talent. Now, he might not be elite, but he is certainly a top talent. And you don't just trade away pitchers who can become possibly a no. 2 or even possibly an ace just because they are't considered "elite".

 

And as far as Danks go, read my post just before this one. IT IS HIS FREAKING ROOKIE SEASON!

[DBAHO]

Yeah calling Danks nothing more than a 5th starter right now sounds a bit farfetched to me.

 

Yes he has struggled over the past couple of months, but you have to remember coming into this season he wasn't even meant to have much of a shot at winning a job, and he did that in spring training.

 

And as BearSox said, we've had numerous starters such as Garland and B-Mac who have struggled in their rookie seasons at times. There's quite a bit Danks needs to work on obviously, but he's young and has plenty of time on his side to learn.

 

On Poreda, it's great to see him pitch so well at Great Falls, but as Cheat said, it's rookie ball so he should be dominating there. So I meant it's good he's pitching well, but he's not pitching better than what's expected of him at the moment.

 

Next season if he can pitch like this in A ball, then I'll start to get more excited.

[Heads22]

It's been a while since I've seen Eggy's name. Thanks, Cheat.

[danman31]

It's been a while since I've seen Eggy's name. Thanks, Cheat.

Just do him now and get it out of your system.

[bigruss]

Trading either Danks or Gio would be fine with me. Trade both even. Neither one is an elite pitching prospect. I agree that Danks looks like a 5th starter with limited upside right now.

 

Wow, think about what you just wrote. Trading away a 22 year old lefty who basically only struggled late in his rookie season, and then trading away one of your top 3 if not your best pitching prospect... for what? what do you believe would give the sox a better chance to compete in the future?

 

I think the sox will go into 2008 with this:

 

#1 Beurhle

#2 Vasquez

#3 Garland/Count

#4 Danks

#5 Floyd

 

I believe they may even trade both of Count/Garland to free some cash, but may keep count to raise his value possibly and wait until one of haeger/phillips/broadway/EGGY/gio/etc. proves they are ready to contribute.

[scenario]

C.J. Retherford needs more love. I know the guy didn't get drafted and is 22, but he just turned 22 in August and has the best overall numbers on the team. He had 47 XBH in 261 AB!!

 

Absolutely. CJ Retherford had a GREAT year.

 

There are good reasons he was selected MVP of this year's Great Falls team...

 

He finished the year with 1.000+ OPS... He lead the Pioneer League in extra base hits... and he broke the all-time Pioneer League record for doubles (he hit 30).

 

I think he'll be an interesting player to follow and watch the progress of. To put his numbers in perspective, there have only been two players in the last two years to have a .900+ OPS at Great Falls: Francisco Hernandez and Chris Carter... both who are considered Top 10 Sox prospects.

 

I posted some additional information about him awhile back on the scout.com board. Too much to copy. Here's a link.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2007 by scenario

[NorthSideSox72]

Absolutely. CJ Retherford had a GREAT year.

 

There are good reasons he was selected MVP of this year's Great Falls team...

 

He finished the year with 1.000+ OPS... He lead the Pioneer League in extra base hits... and he broke the all-time Pioneer League record for doubles (he hit 30).

 

I think he'll be an interesting player to follow and watch the progress of. To put his numbers in perspective, there have only been two players in the last two years to have a .900+ OPS at Great Falls: Francisco Hernandez and Chris Carter... both who are considered Top 10 Sox prospects.

 

I posted some additional information about him awhile back on the scout.com board. Too much to copy. Here's a link.

Excellent info - thanks for posting it! I am interested to see what this kid does next year.

 

[scenario]

Excellent info - thanks for posting it! I am interested to see what this kid does next year.

 

No problem.

 

I followed the Sox minor league teams, particularly Great Falls, pretty closely during the second half... even listened to quite a few games via Internet radio.

 

With the big league club bowing out early, it was nice to have something positive baseball-wise to look forward to.

 

This was a pretty magical year for Great Falls. They had the best winning percentage of any WhiteSox farm club since 1989. We had the Pioneer League pitcher of the year (Moreno) and Poreda outpitched him but didn't have enough starts to qualify. Add on top of that, the best hitting team in the league with 5 players who had a .900+ OPS. Five... on one team! Pretty stunning when you think about it.

 

I think next years Kannapolis club is going to look alot like this year's Great Falls team, only adding Logan Johnson + Nick Mahin. Could be a very good season for the Intimidators.

Edited September 20, 2007 by scenario

[bigruss]

No problem.

 

I followed the Sox minor league teams, particularly Great Falls, pretty closely during the second half... even listened to quite a few games via Internet radio.

 

With the big league club bowing out early, it was nice to have something positive baseball-wise to look forward to.

 

This was a pretty magical year for Great Falls. They had the best winning percentage of any WhiteSox farm club since 1989. We had the Pioneer League pitcher of the year (Moreno) and Poreda outpitched him but didn't have enough starts to qualify. Add on top of that, the best hitting team in the league with 5 players who had a .900+ OPS. Five... on one team! Pretty stunning when you think about it.

 

I think next years Kannapolis club is going to look alot like this year's Great Falls team, only adding Logan Johnson + Nick Mahin. Could be a very good season for the Intimidators.

 

This is giving me hope for the future. I would really like the SOx to become more like the Braves in that they instill that winning atmosphere early on and make the players feel good about the teams they play on. That winning atmosphere can give players the confidence to reach their potential at a higher rate I believe.

[29andPoplar]

This is giving me hope for the future. I would really like the SOx to become more like the Braves in that they instill that winning atmosphere early on and make the players feel good about the teams they play on. That winning atmosphere can give players the confidence to reach their potential at a higher rate I believe.

 

The farm director who plotted the strategy for this Great Falls team is a guy who worked in both the Red Sox and Braves organization, so yes it is a good sign.

 

I also was able to follow Great Falls and listened to many games on internet radio. A fun team, and you get to pick up lots of knowledge about these guys.

[scenario]

I also was able to follow Great Falls and listened to many games on internet radio. A fun team, and you get to pick up lots of knowledge about these guys.

 

You're absolutely right. Alot of details about player talent and development that you learn about by listening to the games never make it into the boxscores.

 

For example, two guys who turned it on late and became very important contributors to the team are SS Greg Paiml and pitcher Leroy Hunt. Paiml struggled early but the proverbial light switch flicked on in early August, after which he became one of the best players on the team. Similar for Hunt... he got lit up several times early, but after he settled in he became the best setup man in the bullpen... a hard thrower (95mph) with good control who was dominating people. (And he is only 19.)

 

Just by watching averages, those two guys would have been easy to ignore because of how they started, but their development suggests they are talents worthy of keeping an eye on. (Paiml did end up having pretty good overall numbers because he had an absolutely monster 2nd half.)

 

Another little trivia thing about Paiml I think is interesting... when he was growing up, he was a ballboy for the Birmingham Barons. That's going to make a good story if he makes it to that level. Probably doesn't happen too often.

Edited September 20, 2007 by scenario

[RockRaines]

Didnt BA call Poreda the most dominant arm from this years draft?

[Steve9347]

Didnt BA call Poreda the most dominant arm from this years draft?

Who cares what Brian Anderson thinks about our pitchers?