My offseason predictions

[whitesox94]

Sox trade Paul Konerko to the Angels for:

Joe Saunders, Chone Figgens, and Casey Kotchman.

Jon Garland to Padres for Khalil Greene

Scott Linebrink signed

Offseason changes

C-AJ

DH-Thome

1B-Kotchman

2B-Richar

3B-Crede

SS-Greene

LF-Fields

CF-Figgins(hopefully that goes Ok)

RF-Dye

SP's

1.Buerhle

2.Javy

3.Contreras

4.Danks

5.Gio/Masset/Broadway/ect.

Pen

Cp-Jenks

Su-linebrink

Su-Logan

Mr-Wasserman

Mr-Thornton

Lr-Floyd

Bench

Erstad

Owens

Cintron

Hall

Ozuna

 

Thats kinda improved!?

 

 

 

[whitesox94]

5.Gio/Masset/Broadway/ect.

Sorry Saunders as 5

[GoodAsGould]

what exactly would be the advantage of khalil greene, better off in throwing him in with the angels deal and getting another prospect or 2

[fathom]

Khalil is putting up some very impressive power numbers in just a terrible hitter's park. He'd be a significant upgrade over Uribe.

[santo=dorf]

..and this is why I wish for the trade forums to stay open.

 

Garland is worth more than just Greene

[29andPoplar]

Khalil is putting up some very impressive power numbers in just a terrible hitter's park. He'd be a significant upgrade over Uribe.

Why is Greene a significant upgrade over Uribe, they have the exact same tendencies. Low on base %, tons of strikeouts, mediocre batting average, very few walks, minimal stolen bases, etc. I have seen more than enough of Uribe but the Sox will shoot higher than Khalil Greene.

[fathom]

Why is Greene a significant upgrade over Uribe, they have the exact same tendencies. Low on base %, tons of strikeouts, mediocre batting average, very few walks, minimal stolen bases, etc. I have seen more than enough of Uribe but the Sox will shoot higher than Khalil Greene.

 

I've been told that the Padres won't trade Greene, so the speculation is useless. I just think he'd be a much better hitter once he gets out of PetCo. You know I'm of the opinion though that Tejada or Renteria will be our SS next year.

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Anyone else bothered by the fact that his starting rotation has 2 question marks and one senior citizen?

[fathom]

Anyone else bothered by the fact that his starting rotation has 2 question marks and one senior citizen?

 

Everything about the 2008 roster bothers me. I really think rebuilding is the right move, as there's too many holes to go out and fill via free agency. We have very little left in the minors to actually trade.

[Dick Allen]

Everything about the 2008 roster bothers me. I really think rebuilding is the right move, as there's too many holes to go out and fill via free agency. We have very little left in the minors to actually trade.

They scary thing is there are several people with the White Sox who think they are very close to being very good again. I hope KW isn't one of them. I am encouraged that Ozzie spouted off relying on Fields, Owens, Richar and Gonzalez in 2008 to make meaningful contributions probably means last place.

[fathom]

They scary thing is there are several people with the White Sox who think they are very close to being very good again. I hope KW isn't one of them. I am encouraged that Ozzie spouted off relying on Fields, Owens, Richar and Gonzalez in 2008 to make meaningful contributions probably means last place.

 

It just makes no sense for the Sox to not go into rebuilding mode. They think getting a quick fix like Hunter or Rowand or Linebrink or Tejada will make us a contender again. The problem is it's likely we're going to have two very young guys in the rotation, and none of these guys are close to becoming better than average pitchers. Unless we can get like 7 or 8 pitchers on the roster to overachieve (like we had in 2005), this team is a long way from being a playoff contender. The pitching is only going to get better in the AL Central with the return of Liriano, the continued improvement of Carmona, etc.

[Vance Law]

g

Edited September 16, 2007 by Vance Law

[Flash Tizzle]

It just makes no sense for the Sox to not go into rebuilding mode. They think getting a quick fix like Hunter or Rowand or Linebrink or Tejada will make us a contender again. The problem is it's likely we're going to have two very young guys in the rotation, and none of these guys are close to becoming better than average pitchers. Unless we can get like 7 or 8 pitchers on the roster to overachieve (like we had in 2005), this team is a long way from being a playoff contender. The pitching is only going to get better in the AL Central with the return of Liriano, the continued improvement of Carmona, etc.

Only reason against rebuilding is the fear ticket sales will dramatically reduce. What I feel in regards to that issue is, who cares? The casual, or perhaps band-wagon jumping fan from 2005, will gradually decrease their interest in the White Sox regardless. If they're going to struggle, I'd rather struggle with a 85 million dollar payroll than a 110 million dollar payroll with several long-term deals strewn about.

 

They'll have to rebuild eventually. I'd wish they accept their failures and get the process started sooner rather than later. One benefit to management suggesting that next season won't be a rebuilding project is if the season is in anyway comparable to this year, there will be no more excuses. Two straight seasons under .500 would almost force Williams hand.

 

[Dogfood22]

There is absolutely no way in hell we can get to where we need to be in one offseason. The only way we can get to where we need to be in the future and have a solid young core is if a ton of our veterans have outstanding years next year, we ship them off for great prospects, and then those great prospects turn into MLB players. Most likely KW will try unsuccessfully to have another magical 2005-like offseason that is basically nothing more than mix-and-match patchwork.

 

Just looking at what is out there and where our payroll is we're f***ed. KW can improve the team in small areas, like trading Contreras for another bad 2-year contract like Randy Winn. Or he can send Richar to Charlotte for another year and sign Eckstein to play 2B. Hell, he could sign Eckstein to play SS and sign Loretta or Iguchi to play 2B. That would make for a more productive IF. Or he could send virtually nothing to LAD for Rafael Furcal's bad contract. Maybe he could make some more smaller prospect-for-prosect deals, or use some of our minor league assets to get a young undervalued CF like Wily Taveras. But no matter what he does we're f***ed in the future.

 

We had better start spending some money in the draft and we had better start doing it soon. League average ballplayers get huge amounts of money and slightly above average players get horrible contracts that can set organizations back. You can't get a halfway decent #3 starter for under $10mil per these days. I don't see what is so wrong with going over slot when the alternatives are what they are. There are no more bargains anywhere like JD was when he first came here. Now your "bargains" are s***ty ass f***in ballplayers. Aaron Rowand is a bargain? Aaron Rowand ain't no f***in bargain. Aaron Rowand sucks. It's almost better to sign an assload of write-offs and hope to find the next Carlos Pena or Jack Cust than it is to work the FA market because at least then you won't run into a contract that will set your organization back. And this all makes me hate those f***in Cubs even more. f*** Jim Hendry and everyone who looks like Jim Hendry.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Dogfood22

[Flash Tizzle]

We had better start spending some money in the draft and we had better start doing it soon. League average ballplayers get huge amounts of money and slightly above average players get horrible contracts that can set organizations back. You can't get a halfway decent #3 starter for under $10mil per these days. I don't see what is so wrong with going over slot when the alternatives are what they are. There are no more bargains anywhere like JD was when he first came here. Now your "bargains" are s***ty ass f***in ballplayers. Aaron Rowand is a bargain? Aaron Rowand ain't no f***in bargain. Aaron Rowand sucks. It's almost better to sign an assload of write-offs and hope to find the next Carlos Pena or Jack Cust than it is to work the FA market because at least then you won't run into a contract that will set your organization back. And this all makes me hate those f***in Cubs even more. f*** Jim Hendry and everyone who looks like Jim Hendry.

We're going to experience quite the dilemma next June in the amateur draft. Especially if the most talented players available have Boras as their agent, or don't and are still demanding bonuses above slot value. Now, I realize there's no guarantee we still hold the hard-line with Boras; but it's more of a situation where I'll have doubt until proven otherwise.

 

I, among others on Soxtalk, believe the 2008 draft pick is a valuable component of our future. Perhaps one of the best opportunities we'll have to infuse talent into the organization. Williams just can't afford a first round failure. Expectations should be immense on our scouting department to deliver a stud. Whomever is selected needs to develop quickly and sustain success immediately upon promotion. What should make the issue of slot value all the more irreleveant is our lack of sandwich picks. Since Buehrle and Dye were resigned, there's no chance for compensation picks. We may have -- depending upon the length of the sandwich round -- fourty slots between our first and second overall selection. No excuse not to pay whatever is necessary to sign the most talented player.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[BaseballNick]

The draft is extremely important, but so is the offseason. My group of season ticket holders became a whole heck of a lot less interested in re-upping for next season once the Sox fell out of contention as we witnessed humilitaing defeat after humiliating defeat. A lot of the money being generated at the park now is from season ticket holders who climbed aboard in '05 - and a lot will be leaving this offseason unless some big name FAs make their way to the South Side. If the Sox get snubbed by the big FAs and/or put their trust in young talent, then I think we should expect to see a lot of empty seats next year. That being said, I expect Kenny to be very aggressive this winter. Don't think that Kenny hates losing any less than we do. I truely believe we'll see at least five (maybe seven) new faces by April.

[Kalapse]

What big name free agents? Am I the only one who doesn't see many? There's like 4 (that aren't closers) and none of them (aside from ARod) have great track records of success considering the incredibly lucrative financial investment each will command.

[RockRaines]

Thats a last place team right there. Weakened our rotation, took out our most consistent offensive threat, and really didnt improve the pen enough.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Drugs are bad ... Mmmkay.

[knightni]

Jon Garland to Padres for Khalil Greene

 

eugh.

[knightni]

We had better start spending some money in the draft and we had better start doing it soon.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Borchard

 

Borchard, who also played quarterback for Stanford, took a $5.3 million signing bonus to play for the White Sox. The signing bonus was the highest ever given to a player for a minor league contract until Justin Upton received $6.1 million to sign with the Arizona Diamondbacks in the winter of 2005.

 

 

How'd that work out?

 

[GreatScott82]

I have made probably 10 2008 roster predictions since June. That tells you how long this god for saken season has been in 2007. Im not hear to bash your predictions but i think we all really don't have a clue to what KW will do this offseason. The only thing that we know is that KW will most likely sign Rowand or Hunter for CF. Okay thats one important possition but what about SS, the pen? Can we really win with 2 kids in the rotation, because even Garland knows he will likely be traded. Can we improve the bullpen by trading Garland? Do we go after a SS with him? Is Richar ready to be the every 2B for a full season? Will Reinsdorf open up his wallet and increase payroll to sign not only Rowand or Hunter but maybe even another SP or surprise the world by going after A-Rod? This team has waaaaaayyy too many holes. And to patch up some holes we are just likely going to open up a new one. (AKA trading Garland). So unless Reinsdorf opens up his wallet, maybe we should start to consider going into rebuilding mode...

 

[Dogfood22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Borchard

How'd that work out?

 

It didn't, but that's not really the point. You're liable to get burned no matter what you do, but I'd much rather see the Sox spend a lot on a first rounder with major superstar potential like Borchard had than spend an assload of cash on another Jamie Navarro, Jose Contreras, etc. If Borchard had worked out I don't think people would have complained. And really, did that $5 whatever million really set the Sox back? Is that the reason we didn't win a WS until 2005?

 

No matter where we pick next year we're not going to have to pay more than $8million to our pick. That'll be somewhere close the amount that one year of Kyle Lohse is worth in this market. Hmmm, prospect with superstar potential or someone like Kyle Lohse? Gee, that's hard... The Sox are supposedly a large market organization, and their payroll reflects that, yet they still operate like a small market franchise in the draft. That is not good. Especially for an organization such as ours with a GM such as ours who is more likely to trade prospects for proven players and thus is less likely to get screwed when a certain draft pick fails to develop into a good major league player.

[witesoxfan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Borchard

How'd that work out?

 

 

Better than Mark Johnson and Jason Dellaero.

[29andPoplar]

It didn't, but that's not really the point. You're liable to get burned no matter what you do, but I'd much rather see the Sox spend a lot on a first rounder with major superstar potential like Borchard had than spend an assload of cash on another Jamie Navarro, Jose Contreras, etc. If Borchard had worked out I don't think people would have complained. And really, did that $5 whatever million really set the Sox back? Is that the reason we didn't win a WS until 2005?

 

No matter where we pick next year we're not going to have to pay more than $8million to our pick. That'll be somewhere close the amount that one year of Kyle Lohse is worth in this market. Hmmm, prospect with superstar potential or someone like Kyle Lohse? Gee, that's hard... The Sox are supposedly a large market organization, and their payroll reflects that, yet they still operate like a small market franchise in the draft. That is not good. Especially for an organization such as ours with a GM such as ours who is more likely to trade prospects for proven players and thus is less likely to get screwed when a certain draft pick fails to develop into a good major league player.

 

First of all, I will take the proven player every time over the prospect. It is the difference between a known quantity and an unknown quantity.

 

Secondly, with their payroll and budget, they can do both. They can sign a Contreras (using your example), they can spend money in the draft, and they can sign free agents and foreign talent. All of which they've done.

 

The part I do not understand is this, how exactly are they operating as a small market franchise in the draft? They rely on their scouts and as you correctly say when using Borchard as an example, some will work out and some won't. The one thing they have wanted to do, up to this point, is make damn sure they get their high draft picks signed. They work very hard before the draft to make sure their high picks are signable, in general.

 

Now the rules have changed. If a team doesn't sign a first round pick, they get a pick the next year in one slot lower. So now they can risk picking a guy who might be tougher to sign, knowing they have the "safety net" of getting a pick the next year. Sox fans don't want that though and neither do I. I want good prospects out of the draft who get signed and get going playing pro ball because most (there are exceptions of course) take a couple of years minimum to develop.

 

They fired the scouting director and are taking a different approach as of now. That approach is going after higher impact prospects which is good. Be prepared for more boom or bust types.

 

If the rationale is they are acting small market because they don't take Boras clients, well, that is the age old argument. The last three they took off the top of my head were Jeff Weaver, Bobby Hill, and Bobby Seay. One pretty good pitcher although not great, and two marginal major leaguers. Nothing special.

 

To me it is very important you get your guys signed and playing right away. You have to constantly influx talent, you really need to sign your first 10 or so picks. Many here say "go over slot, go over slot", I hope I never see them complain about ticket prices or beer prices. Every team operates on a budget, some teams generate more revenue like the Red Sox, Cubs, Yankees. The anamoly appears to be the Tigers and I for one will be curious how long they continue to take the approach they did this year. I admire them but I wonder if their approach will change when inevitably some of these big bonus guys crash and burn, it happens to every team.

 

The other key is developing good relationships with people who know these draft eligible kids, people who can vouch for their talent and their intangibles.