Can this team compete in 2008?

[Balta1701]

Richar has a .756 OPS that's pretty damn close to league average (and better than Iguchi). If you can get that from a 25 year old who's making league minimum and playing some good defense you should be happy.

And in September, he's hitting .310 with a .948 OPS.

[LosMediasBlancas]

NO. This team might have more holes and question marks than it has things to feel confident about.

[Gregory Pratt]

Hypothetically? Yes. This team can compete next year. A resounding hypothetical yes!

[joejoesox]

Cleveland will most likely win the division again next year, just my two cents

[WCSox]

Cleveland will most likely win the division again next year, just my two cents

 

People were saying the same thing about the Tigers and Twins last September. And as recently as a couple of months ago, people here were saying that the Tigers were going to be a "juggernaut" for the next 3-4 years and they're on the brink of Wild Card elimination right now.

 

Divisional strength can change quickly. If the Sox make three or four key off-season moves and their veteran sluggers don't go through a prolonged slump next year, they'll most definitely have a shot. Despite its numerous problems, the core of this team is still very talented.

 

Edited September 20, 2007 by WCSox

[The Ginger Kid]

People were saying the same thing about the Tigers and Twins last September. And as recently as a couple of months ago, people here were saying that the Tigers were going to be a "juggernaut" for the next 3-4 years and they're on the brink of Wild Card elimination right now.

 

Divisional strength can change quickly. If the Sox make three or four key off-season moves and their veteran sluggers don't go through a prolonged slump next year, they'll most definitely have a shot. Despite its numerous problems, the core of this team is still very talented.

I agree. It's obvious that our starters still have something left in the tank. I think if we bolstered the pen the Sox could be contenders immediately. No matter how bad the offense was, there's no way they could've ever overcome the disastrous bullpen we had through most of the season.

[joejoesox]

i just think that clevelands team as it stands right now is pretty much good enough to take the division next year, whereas we already have to make at least a handful of moves/trades, detroits bullpen isn't that great so there's a glaring weakness they have as well as Sheff seems to be unable to stay healthy (just like our DH)

 

westbrook/carmona/byrd/sabathia right now look really really good (byrd/westbrook/sabathia are basically unhittable to our hitters, and carmona will most likely get to that point as well if this years performance is any indication)

 

not to mention they're younger/healthier in just about every position than we are, and look where they are right now and hafner isn't even having an average year

 

it'll be tough to stay toe to toe with cleveland next year unless we are able to make the right moves in the offseason

[fathom]

i just think that clevelands team as it stands right now is pretty much good enough to take the division next year, whereas we already have to make at least a handful of moves/trades, detroits bullpen isn't that great so there's a glaring weakness they have as well as Sheff seems to be unable to stay healthy (just like our DH)

 

westbrook/carmona/byrd/sabathia right now look really really good (byrd/westbrook/sabathia are basically unhittable to our hitters, and carmona will most likely get to that point as well if this years performance is any indication)

 

not to mention they're younger/healthier in just about every position than we are, and look where they are right now and hafner isn't even having an average year

 

it'll be tough to stay toe to toe with cleveland next year unless we are able to make the right moves in the offseason

 

Hafner will be much better next season.

 

[The Ginger Kid]

Hafner will be much better next season.

...because....?

 

is it possible that team's have found a way to pitch to him? I do agree that when he's hot he'll hit anything around the plate and hit it hard and far. But I've seen him chasing a lot of low and away this season. Wonder if he's got some kind of injury.

[joejoesox]

Hafner will be much better next season.

 

that was the point i was making, if they're doing this well with a not-so-great hafner, imagine how many more games they'll win when he's actually producing

[gosox41]

This team needs its all-stars to be all-stars. The Indians went into the season with the same questional players at second and third and a worse outlook in the pen as the Sox will have next year. If the players that are paid to produce produce and there is more health they will be fine. They need to sign some bench players that can produce for modest salaries not the Mackowiak's of April and May and Alex Cintron of the whole season. I feel the entire division will regress next year and if the Sox make some moves, they will be right back near the top.

 

I think A-Rod and Rowand sit atop their shopping list along with a couple of Japanese players.

 

 

The way this team is set up right now, they can barely afford Rowand let alone A Rod and some Japanese guys.

 

 

Bob

[gosox41]

People were saying the same thing about the Tigers and Twins last September. And as recently as a couple of months ago, people here were saying that the Tigers were going to be a "juggernaut" for the next 3-4 years and they're on the brink of Wild Card elimination right now.

 

Divisional strength can change quickly. If the Sox make three or four key off-season moves and their veteran sluggers don't go through a prolonged slump next year, they'll most definitely have a shot. Despite its numerous problems, the core of this team is still very talented.

 

 

How much of the Tigers problems are a tired pitching staff from the extended games last year?

 

 

 

Bob

[Balta1701]

How much of the Tigers problems are a tired pitching staff from the extended games last year?

Bob

If the Tigers are indeed on the same path as us...they'll be fighting for the #1 pick in 09.

[greg775]

If the Sox make three or four key off-season moves and their veteran sluggers don't go through a prolonged slump next year, they'll most definitely have a shot. Despite its numerous problems, the core of this team is still very talented.

 

I agree the core of the team is still very talented.

If it isn't, that WS title was the biggest fluke in the history of mankind.

I agree with your statement. I think you are right.

[kwolf68]

Despite its numerous problems, the core of this team is still very talented.

 

 

And really...how many teams CANT say that? The real trick is finding a great 10th, 15th, 25th player. Further, the core of our team may be talented, but very one-dimensional.

 

Put it this way, if the Sox can compete in 2008 then every team in baseball-with the right moves- can.

 

This team just isn't that good. And tinkering around the edges and signing a big priced aging 'star' will do nothing but continue this teams descent into the abyss.

 

In short, I don't think this team has a prayer in hell of competing next year. A lofty goal is .500 record with an eye toward 2009. Doesn't mean I'm a bad fan and certainly doesn't mean I won't root like hell for the team, but I just don't think this team is much. Sure, we have a few nice players (like all teams), but mainly this team is littered with suspect talent all around the field.

 

Our good players?

 

AJP-Solid hitting, but average at best behind plate

Thome-Slugger, but is aging and injury proned

PK-Slugger, and solid glove at first w/ limited range. Likely our best, most sure-thing player (not pitcher)

Dye-Aging, slowing down. Would be a great fit as a support player, but this team would need him to carry it. Doubtful

Crede-Back a major concern

 

 

Erstad-Waste

Cintron-Waste

Gonzalez-Waste

Pods-Injury riddled player, basically waste

Uribe-Has some pop, but zero speed and terrible bat control otherwise. Defense is good, but he regressed this year in my view. Below average SS overall

Owens-4th outfielder? Questionable if he can handle CF over 162

Richar and Fields-Show promise, but still some questions

 

 

This is a World Series contender?

 

In regards to pitching, we have 3 bonafide pitchers (Mark, Javy, Jenks), another good one (Jon), some decent arms who sometimes get outs (Thornton, MacDougal), young guns with some skill (Danis, Boone, Ehren), a total wildcard (Floyd) and a couple duds.

 

There is a reason this is one of the worst teams in baseball this year. It's not because 2 or 3 guys are slumping or Thome was injured that week or our pitchers had a bad year in the pen...it's because this team stinks. 2005 was great, but 2005 was built FOR 2005, not for longevity. KW tried to milk a couple other years off that team by adding vets, trading youngsters for arms, and keeping the main guys here, but the team is just getting worse, because 2005 was a year unto itself and was not indicitive of what should be happening right now.

Edited September 21, 2007 by kwolf68

[29andPoplar]

kwolf68, that was a great post and I agree with you, right now as constituted this team can't compete.

 

I believe we will see some bounceback from the core players. Thome will be Thome, dinged up for 40 games or so and healthy for 120. Dye and Konerko should bounce back average wise. But there are no guarantees. I liked how you phrased it, one of the keys is getting that really good 10th, 15th, 25th guy. Those guys are the difference in winning 8-10 games a year.

 

Pitching wins, and they will continue to focus on pitching. As I posted a few days ago I believe there will be a couple of trades that people don't expect and I believe you will see new players brought in who are more aggressive, both on the field and in the clubhouse. As for big free agent signings, my guess is no, but I do see them picking up the right 2nd tier free agents and maybe a non tender or two. As you correctly identify, a lot of this is about "fit" and how guys function as part of a team and their willingness and ability to get things accomplished as a team.

 

The Sox would be smart to totally reconstruct the bench and I am betting they will.

[WCSox]

How much of the Tigers problems are a tired pitching staff from the extended games last year?

Bob

 

Perhaps some, although much of it is due to the fact that Kenny Rogers and Todd Jones are done and guys like Inge and Robertson were playing way over their heads last year. They have a number of key players on the wrong side of 30 (Maggs, Pudge, Inge, etc.) who are going to start declining soon. Perhaps not next year, but soon after.

 

And really...how many teams CANT say that?

 

Quite a few. I can name a lot of teams that would love to have a core of good players like Mark, Paulie, Dye, Thome, and Jenks with some other really solid guys surrounding them (Javy, Jon, Crede, Fields). Thome and Dye may be getting older, but it's nothing shore of pure pessimism to predict that their "aging" will render them significantly less effective next year.

 

There is a reason this is one of the worst teams in baseball this year. It's not because 2 or 3 guys are slumping or Thome was injured that week or our pitchers had a bad year in the pen...it's because this team stinks dug themselves into a huge hole offensively in April and May (much of which was due to injuries), got an absolutely abysmal performance out of a young and inexperienced bullpen and, most importantly, quit trying in July.

 

Edited for accuracy

Edited September 21, 2007 by WCSox

[Yossarian]

Edited for accuracy

The original post was more accurate, I'd say.

[SkokieSox]

The way this team is set up right now, they can barely afford Rowand let alone A Rod and some Japanese guys.

Bob

 

That all depends. With as much money that a player like AROD would cost, he'd bring in at least as much in revenue, probably quite a bit more.

[Dick Allen]

That all depends. With as much money that a player like AROD would cost, he'd bring in at least as much in revenue, probably quite a bit more.

He will probably get $30 million + a year. I don't know how much more revenue he would bring in. White Sox fans show up for wins, not to see an icon. Tom Seaver's starts didn't boost attendance, Albert Belle's presence didn't either. The Sox would have to win, and sell close to a million more tickets a season. I don't know if capacity would even allow it.

[Dick Allen]

The pitchers have been better than good lately. Uribe and Richar have OPS in the 900s this month. Owens is getting more hits than you can expect. All the bigger bats have had some moments the past few weeks, and yet the team is still 9-9. I think more than a couple of tweaks have to occur for this team to pick up 20+ games on the leaders of the division. There's only so much even I can blame Andy Gonzalez for.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Dick Allen

[Flash Tizzle]

Edited for accuracy

 

1. At the end of May, a dreadful offense nonwithstanding, the team had a 24-25 record and was 7.5 games out of the division; 4 behind the wildcard leader. The team wasn't quit dead, yet.

 

2. What's so young and inexperienced about MacDougal, Thornton and Aardsma? They were key contributers to our past (and ongoing) bullpen woes.

 

3. If they collectively quit trying in June then there should be a large amount of roster changes, right? I take it this is exactly how you feel, since no one would possibly root for a group of similar people entering next season. Maybe they didn't have that killer extinct, or the guidance of Rowand to push them forward. Oh, but wait -- according to Hawk they've never given up.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Jack Parkman]

IMO this isn't even a question because the answer is flat out no. The bigger question is can this team compete in 2011? You may call me pessimistic, but I don't think that the Sox are going to sniff .500 until 2010 at the earliest. This team is in disarray. Our best hitters are on the wrong side of 30 and there is absolutely nothing on the farm as of right now(Richar and Fields don't count because they'll be with the big club next year) After Garland is traded this offseason, we have Buehrle, Javy, Jenks and a bunch of ?s in our pitching staff. As much as I like Mark Buehrle and want him pitching for the Sox, it would have been in his best interest with regards to winning to sign elsewhere. By the time the Sox are close to competing again, his contract will be up. This organization doesn't need a few pieces here or there to compete next year, it needs a complete overhaul from the bottom up. It all starts with infusing talent into our farm system. BTW, I'm all for trading anybody on the 25 man roster besides Fields and Danks(yes, that means Mark too. He's my favorite player on the team, but I'm a Sox fan first.) within the next 2 years to rebuild the franchise. If anybody within the organization thinks they won't cut it in the majors within the next year, trade them too, but only for young talent. The first things I'd do is trade Garland and Konerko for major league ready guys and dump Contreras for a bag of balls and even pay 1/4 of his contract if need be. I'd also consider trading Jenks if you can get a king's ransom in return. I'll still watch the team and go to a few games over this time. I realize that this team is going to be bad for the next 3 seasons. What bothers me though, is that upper management doesn't.

Edited September 22, 2007 by southsida86

[SkokieSox]

He will probably get $30 million + a year. I don't know how much more revenue he would bring in. White Sox fans show up for wins, not to see an icon. Tom Seaver's starts didn't boost attendance, Albert Belle's presence didn't either. The Sox would have to win, and sell close to a million more tickets a season. I don't know if capacity would even allow it.

 

T-shirts man. t-shirts. The Sox would definitely make money, any team would definitely make money. That's the only reason he'd get $30 mill plus.

 

PS, could you imagine the potential of 6 30(+) homerun players (Thome, Dye, Konerko, Arod, Crede, Fields) You could certainly go on base and speed for the rest of the lineup, two up top, and one in the 9 hole. Great lineup potential... You could market that well too.

Edited September 22, 2007 by SEALgep

[greg775]

What you say makes sense southside, but I don't think he's going to trade Garland. He's going to deal Contreras, probably for nothing that will help us much.

 

Obviously Kenny will make changes.

Getting Renteria and Hunter should help greatly I would think.

The aging veterans simply need to get their head out of their ass from the start next year and contribute.

I find it difficult to believe Thome, Paulie, AJP, Dye and Crede all are finished.

I would think odds are great we'll finish closer to last than first, but I don't think it's impossible to turn things around with just some tinkering.

new ss; Hunter, a Howry type reliever instead of the hacks we threw out there the first half of the season.