University of Florida Student Tasered at Sen. Kerry Forum

[Rex Kickass]

6 armed cops, 1 guy with a book. Sorry, I have a hard time seeing a scenario where tazing is appropriate.

[Balta1701]

6 armed cops, 1 guy with a book. Sorry, I have a hard time seeing a scenario where tazing is appropriate.

In this case, I'm not saying it's inappropriate. Even a single person can injure another person if they are truly resisting, and in that case, it could well be justified.

 

One of the other little notes with the taser is that the deaths that occur with it have also been associated with drug use, especially stimulants. All I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a little discretion used with them. If a person is resisting and has the ability to injure someone else and therefore needs to be restrained, its usually fairly useable.

[NorthSideSox72]

In this case, I'm not saying it's inappropriate. Even a single person can injure another person if they are truly resisting, and in that case, it could well be justified.

 

One of the other little notes with the taser is that the deaths that occur with it have also been associated with drug use, especially stimulants. All I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a little discretion used with them. If a person is resisting and has the ability to injure someone else and therefore needs to be restrained, its usually fairly useable.

Definitely agree. The use of any weapon at all requires discretion and caution.

 

[Yossarian]

Was the taser necessary?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/12/...ain648859.shtml

Yes, and a serious beat down too.

 

[LowerCaseRepublican]

That many cops and they all couldn't have knocked him on his ass, pinned him and got him cuffed?

 

The spoiled brat crown prince of the douchebags -- "Why am I getting arrested?"

 

Sir, you were getting removed from the event because of your behavior in a private venue that violated the expectations of the event's organizers. You would have won more to your cause if you did not sound so damn condescending in your delivery.

[EvilMonkey]

Campus security, not cops. BIG difference.

[Rowand44]

Would have been funnier if they just punched his face in. Oh well, the guy's a moron, he got what he deserved.

[SoxAce]

Would have been funnier if they just punched his face in. Oh well, the guy's a moron, he got what he deserved.

 

^^^^^^^^^

 

Even though I am against the tazing, the guy deserved to get his ass handed to him. I fully agree with Rex Kickass on this one though.

[witesoxfan]

Just curious here, which means of force is the most likely to leave the kid with as little permanent damage as possible - tasing him or forcefully pinning him to the ground?

[Texsox]

Balta, you are wrong on this one. The phrase "non-deadly weapon" does not mean it 100% will never kill anyone.

 

I like how society mislabels things. I'm not certain what better label we can come up with, but isn't it weird that Balta would be wrong for pointing out that "non-deadly" is deadly?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I like how society mislabels things. I'm not certain what better label we can come up with, but isn't it weird that Balta would be wrong for pointing out that "non-deadly" is deadly?

 

 

But pretty much anything can be considered deadly to someone though.

 

 

And i also agree with those who think this kid got what he deserved. He went there with the intention of starting something. He did not plan on this being civil one bit. I have no problem with him being tasered. He was repeatedly given the opportunity to leave peacefully and he repeatedly denied that right.

[NorthSideSox72]

Just curious here, which means of force is the most likely to leave the kid with as little permanent damage as possible - tasing him or forcefully pinning him to the ground?

I suppose one could compare the number of people killed by tasers to the number of people who have died while in forcible custody (this is a crude comparison, but, here we go)...

 

According to Amnesty International, the total number of deaths in the United States (tasers have been used widely since the 80's) that occurred shortly after use of a taser (but not necessarily caused by it) is 245. Now, given that other things were inevitbaly going on in those circumstances, including forcible custody, its hard to say how many of those were actually caused by tasers. Half? More? don't know.

 

On the other hand, looking at custody death, there are a number of different studies as to how often this happens, but it looks like it could be anywhere from 25 to 125 people a year. That is obviously a much larger gross number than those dying from the taser. However, forcible custody of course happens far more often. So coming up with a relative percentage would be difficult if not impossible.

 

The only thing clear, really, is that either situation represents some limited potential danger to the subject. Given the very small number of deaths from either one, in relation to how often people are taken into custody, the assumption can be made that in 99%+ of all situations, neither would cause permanent damage. It is then more a matter of which method achieves the means most effectively.

 

[southsider2k5]

Not wanting to get into whether or not the taser was appropriate in this circumstance...let me just say that stating a taser is a non deadly weapon is simply false. In a majority of cases it is non-deadly...but there are more than a few cases where it actually does wind up being deadly, especially in cases of pre-existing conditions. Sending that much voltage through a person's heart is not a healthy thing to do, and it can kill a person. Drudge even has a link up right below the Kerry story today of a person who died after being hit repeatedly by a taser.

 

Good god with that definition, peanuts are a deadly weapon, and should never be served to anyone, because someone might die from them.

[NorthSideSox72]

Campus security, not cops. BIG difference.

I was curious about this too - what these "cops" really were. I looked around, and it turns out that U of F does have an actual, state-trained police department, like any other municipal department. So, at least from an expectation of training and legal responsibility, I think they need to be held to the same standard as, say, the Gainsville PD.

 

[Controlled Chaos]

Would have been funnier if they just punched his face in. Oh well, the guy's a moron, he got what he deserved.

This is how they did it in the old days. I don't have a problem with either course of action. If you're resisting arrest, you deserve what you get.

 

When my dad was a cop he used to have these leather gloves with lead in the knuckles....He had to use them many times to subdue someone he was arresting.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Controlled Chaos

[Texsox]

Good god with that definition, peanuts are a deadly weapon, and should never be served to anyone, because someone might die from them.

 

Do we call peanuts, non-deadly? Why do we have a category called non-deadly or non-lethal? I believe it is to make people believe the weapon is soft and cuddly and not as dangerous as it is. And why would the police want to make something warm and cuddly?

[NorthSideSox72]

Do we call peanuts, non-deadly? Why do we have a category called non-deadly or non-lethal? I believe it is to make people believe the weapon is soft and cuddly and not as dangerous as it is. And why would the police want to make something warm and cuddly?

soft and cuddly? Where do you get this stuff?

 

Why do we have a category for non-deadly? Because the more tools the cops have at their disposal that are less dangerous (for less dangerous situations), the better, don't you think? Or would you rather we go back to when they just carried a gun and stick?

 

[Texsox]

soft and cuddly? Where do you get this stuff?

 

Why do we have a category for non-deadly? Because the more tools the cops have at their disposal that are less dangerous (for less dangerous situations), the better, don't you think? Or would you rather we go back to when they just carried a gun and stick?

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Why call it non-deadly? Why not less-deadly? Why not just call them weapons? I'm not saying get rid of the tool, I just find it funny how we sanitize stuff and put on these labels. To paraphrase; Balta states that the weapon can be deadly, and you reply well non-deadly doesn't mean NON-deadly. I guess it depends on how you define "non".

 

I'm going to guess that the term was coined by people manufacturing these weapons to help sell the weapon. Who isn't in favor of non-deadly methods? It sounds way better than "weapons that kill only some of the time".

 

Stupid side trip down a linguistics and marketing lane.

 

Carry on.

[Mplssoxfan]

I was curious about this too - what these "cops" really were. I looked around, and it turns out that U of F does have an actual, state-trained police department, like any other municipal department. So, at least from an expectation of training and legal responsibility, I think they need to be held to the same standard as, say, the Gainsville PD.

I wondered about that, too, since in my experience here in Minneapolis, the University has their own PD with all the same responsibilities that the Minneapolis PD or the St. Paul PD. In fact, I know someone who got popped for DUI by the U of MN PD.

 

I would figure that most large state universities have their own PD, subject to the same standards as any other PD in the state.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Why call it non-deadly? Why not less-deadly? Why not just call them weapons? I'm not saying get rid of the tool, I just find it funny how we sanitize stuff and put on these labels. To paraphrase; Balta states that the weapon can be deadly, and you reply well non-deadly doesn't mean NON-deadly. I guess it depends on how you define "non".

 

I'm going to guess that the term was coined by people manufacturing these weapons to help sell the weapon. Who isn't in favor of non-deadly methods? It sounds way better than "weapons that kill only some of the time".

 

Stupid side trip down a linguistics and marketing lane.

 

Carry on.

 

I almost responded to this post with sincere thought. But Tex's premise can't be real.

[Texsox]

I almost responded to this post with sincere thought. But Tex's premise can't be real.

 

Who coined the term non-deadly and why? You don't think it was a marketing ploy to sell more tasers? When we have labels that are less than accurate, or misleading (98% Fat Free) it is usually to sell something.

 

I'm not claiming it is evil or dishonest, it is something we accept in our society. I found it amusing that we had to be reminded that non-deadly doesn't mean it is 100% death free. It means it it kills less times and less enough to be called "non". I believe most people know what sex is, and they know what non means.

[santo=dorf]

One major positive story has been the number of YTMNDs created dedicated to this incident.

 

http://dtmbkombat.ytmnd.com/

http://gocrazydonttazeme.ytmnd.com/

http://whatisdtmb.ytmnd.com/

[sox4lifeinPA]

Who coined the term non-deadly and why? You don't think it was a marketing ploy to sell more tasers? When we have labels that are less than accurate, or misleading (98% Fat Free) it is usually to sell something.

 

I'm not claiming it is evil or dishonest, it is something we accept in our society. I found it amusing that we had to be reminded that non-deadly doesn't mean it is 100% death free. It means it it kills less times and less enough to be called "non". I believe most people know what sex is, and they know what non means.

 

 

because the end game of the taser is immobilization. It's intended purpose is non-deadly. It is still a weapon (something used by one person against another person with intent to do harm or to coerce. *my definition* ), but with everything with any striation, different classes are assigned to help the lay person dilineate between items.

 

for the record, 98% fat free isn't a classification as much a marketing scheme.

 

I would liken "non-deadly" v. "deadly" weapons to "skim" vs. "whole milk"... Skim is good for you, while Whole milk will kill ya:)

[Texsox]

because the end game of the taser is immobilization. It's intended purpose is non-deadly. It is still a weapon (something used by one person against another person with intent to do harm or to coerce. *my definition* ), but with everything with any striation, different classes are assigned to help the lay person dilineate between items.

 

for the record, 98% fat free isn't a classification as much a marketing scheme.

 

I would liken "non-deadly" v. "deadly" weapons to "skim" vs. "whole milk"... Skim is good for you, while Whole milk will kill ya:)

 

The end game of a 9mm is also immobilization

 

Skim is no longer being used, fat free has replaced it. And I'm glad you used milk as an example. Whole milk is around 4-5% fat. 2% is 2% fat, 1% is 1% fat.

 

I guess it all hinges on what "non" means. If you believe non means "only once in a while" then it is an accurate description. If you believe non means never, then it isn't. I think non-deadly gives the public a different impression of a taser than reality. I also think a taser, properly used, is an awesome weapon and probably saves lives, and saves injuries.

 

And of course, Tasers don't kill people, people who are unruly in public and need a good immobilization, kill themselves.

[sox4lifeinPA]

The end game of a 9mm is also immobilization

 

Skim is no longer being used, fat free has replaced it. And I'm glad you used milk as an example. Whole milk is around 4-5% fat. 2% is 2% fat, 1% is 1% fat.

 

I guess it all hinges on what "non" means. If you believe non means "only once in a while" then it is an accurate description. If you believe non means never, then it isn't. I think non-deadly gives the public a different impression of a taser than reality. I also think a taser, properly used, is an awesome weapon and probably saves lives, and saves injuries.

 

And of course, Tasers don't kill people, people who are unruly in public and need a good immobilization, kill themselves.

 

9mm are meant to kill people. rubber bullets meant to incapacitate. Tasers immobilize. lassos for a good ol' boot scootin' good time.

 

I think more people are in need of a good immobilization than we admit.

 

Jesse Jackson comes to mind.