The Battle For Last Place in the AL Central

[SoxAce]

Contreras goes for victory # 10 (and to get his trade value up) against possible AL rookie of the year cannidate Brian Bannister.

 

Surprisingly, this is my first game thread this year (9-4 last season) so hopefully... eh.. go rookies!

 

 

 

 

Game Time: 7:10 p.m. CSN

 

 

[MHizzle85]

[Kalapse]

Jim Thome now has 501 career homeruns. He's also just 1 HR away from his 11th career 30+ HR season.

[Kyyle23]

Damn, Hawk was just brutally honest about Juan Uribe and why a team does/doesnt need to be on the team. That was wierd

[Jack Parkman]

Contreras is impressing me with the fastball today. 92-94 on the comcast guns. and 92-95 on gameday. I never thought he'd get it up there again. He might have trade value after this outing. Maybe the Contreras-Furcal swap would work.

[Kyyle23]

At work. Would love a recap.

 

Hawk said "If I would have told you in Spring Training that you would have a SS that hit 20+ homeruns and drove in 65-75 runs, would you take it?"

 

DJ "Absolutely"

 

Hawk " And thats the thing, with juan not so much......"

 

And he went on to discuss the team option and how if they can find someone with equal defense and better at the plate of course they would have to replace him.

 

It was just odd to hear him talk about Juan without his usual bias.

[WilliamTell]

that was a missle Thome hit for his 2nd homer of the night.

[TLAK]

Jim Thome now has 501 career homeruns. He's also just 1 HR away from his 11th career 30+ HR season.

That didn't take long.

[Flash Tizzle]

Unbelievable. This team can't even lose right.

 

Eh, I'm still penciling in a stud for whatever slot we fall to. No excuses.

[fathom]

Unbelievable. This team can't even lose right.

 

Eh, I'm still penciling in a stud for whatever slot we fall to. No excuses.

 

With the way this season has been going, did you really expect anything different? When certain posters are upset that some draftee we wanted got picked right before the Sox pick, that will serve them right.

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?autocom=chat

[DBAHO]

So at least Contreras is raising that trade value of his.

 

I would rather that and win this game, than to lose and get 1 better spot in the draft.

 

If that helps us move Contreras and save $10M, then I'm all for Jose pitching well and us winning his starts.

[29andPoplar]

With the way this season has been going, did you really expect anything different? When certain posters are upset that some draftee we wanted got picked right before the Sox pick, that will serve them right.

 

Just a question. Who would get upset? No one who posts here follows the potential draft picks close enough to know a fraction of what the scouts see and know. Anyone who gets upset should not be taken seriously because basically they'd just be blowing smoke to blow smoke.

 

The only person I've read on this board who knows the prospects more than at arm's length is the young guy who goes to Vanderbilt and has regularly seen the Vandy guys play. He knows about the Vanderbilt guys. The rest of the people, like myself included, follow what's on the internet and on the media for the most part. Even if people see a game or two or three, it doesn't make them qualified to get upset. It's opinions, it's not based on credible knowledge. Heck I saw Wyatt Allen pitch in a college playoff game and got all excited about him. Oops.

[fathom]

Just a question. Who would get upset? No one who posts here follows the potential draft picks close enough to know a fraction of what the scouts see and know. Anyone who gets upset should not be taken seriously because basically they'd just be blowing smoke to blow smoke.

 

The only person I've read on this board who knows the prospects more than at arm's length is the young guy who goes to Vanderbilt and has regularly seen the Vandy guys play. He knows about the Vanderbilt guys. The rest of the people, like myself included, follow what's on the internet and on the media for the most part. Even if people see a game or two or three, it doesn't make them qualified to get upset. It's opinions, it's not based on credible knowledge. Heck I saw Wyatt Allen pitch in a college playoff game and got all excited about him. Oops.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying....they'll see some people post on here that they want such-and-such player, and if he goes before us, they'll act all mad or say that JR wouldn't have taken him cause of money issues. I just don't understand how some people can't see the huge potential difference between the 2nd and 8th pick, etc.

[Flash Tizzle]

With the way this season has been going, did you really expect anything different? When certain posters are upset that some draftee we wanted got picked right before the Sox pick, that will serve them right.

No, those certain posters still wont budge from their stance winning meaningless September games (the previos season) was better than losing for the purpose of gaining draft position. We'll have to wait until those drafted ahead are producing in the majors for anyone to acknowledge their mistakes. And even then, I'm sure they'll just shrug their shoulders and say something such as "it is what it is."

 

Here's one prevailing question the 'winning' crowd has yet to answer -- what's the most beneficial part of winning out the remainder of the season? Name me ONE legitimate benefit. I could give you one benefit to losing out the remainder of the year -- having the opportunity to draft a HOF calibur player at #1. Yes, that player may still be available wherever we select; but they'd also be there at #1. As I see it, there's much more substance to our argument than the constrasting view held by Greg and the Gang.

 

Atleast we're facing Santana on Friday. Although would it shock anyone if the White Sox mounted their highest offensive output, post-changeup era, against him?

Edited September 20, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Gregory Pratt]

Kansas "Greg" is "greg" okay? OKAY?

[Buehrle>Wood]

No, those certain posters still wont budge from their stance winning meaningless September games (the previos season) was better than losing for the purpose of gaining draft position. We'll have to wait until those drafted ahead are producing in the majors for anyone to acknowledge their mistakes. And even then, I'm sure they'll just shrug their shoulders and say something such as "it is what it is."

 

Here's one prevailing question the 'winning' crowd has yet to answer -- what's the most beneficial part of winning out the remainder of the season? Name me ONE legitimate benefit. I could give you one benefit to losing out the remainder of the year -- having the opportunity to draft a HOF calibur player at #1. Yes, that player may still be available wherever we select; but they'd also be there at #1. As I see it, there's much more substance to our argument than the constrasting view held by Greg and the Gang.

 

Atleast we're facing Santana on Friday. Although would it shock anyone if the White Sox mounted their highest offensive output, post-changeup era, against him?

Maybe I would read all of that if you would get in chat.

[NorthSideSox72]

No, those certain posters still wont budge from their stance winning meaningless September games (the previos season) was better than losing for the purpose of gaining draft position. We'll have to wait until those drafted ahead are producing in the majors for anyone to acknowledge their mistakes. And even then, I'm sure they'll just shrug their shoulders and say something such as "it is what it is."

 

Here's one prevailing question the 'winning' crowd has yet to answer -- what's the most beneficial part of winning out the remainder of the season? Name me ONE legitimate benefit. I could give you one benefit to losing out the remainder of the year -- having the opportunity to draft a HOF calibur player at #1. No, that player may still be available wherever we select, but they'd also be there at #1. As I see it, there's much more benefit to our argument than the constrasting view held by Greg and the Gang.

 

Atleast we're facing Santana on Friday. Although would it shock anyone if the White Sox mounted their highest offensive output, post-changeup era, against him?

I'll give you a positive to winning now - same reason you are better off scoring a few runs late in a game than just dying off. Psychological momentum. Some people like to think that baseball is something that happens in a vacuum like a video game, but of course its not. Players, particularly young ones like the ones developing right now on the club, will be better off next year if they can build some winning attitude right now.

 

How much benefit does that have? I don't know. Maybe very little. But I think your statement that there is NO benefit is not entirely accurate.

 

[DBAHO]

There's not much point in winning right now obviously as you guys have said above.

 

But you want to see the likes of Contreras and Floyd pitch well, you want to see the likes of Owens and Richar getting better offensively with each game at the major league level, you want to see Fields make better contact and show he can handle LF defensively.

 

If we happen to win the games that Jose and Gavin pitch well in then so be it. I'd rather that than to lose because those guys gave up more than 5 runs in their starts.

[29andPoplar]

That's exactly what I'm saying....they'll see some people post on here that they want such-and-such player, and if he goes before us, they'll act all mad or say that JR wouldn't have taken him cause of money issues. I just don't understand how some people can't see the huge potential difference between the 2nd and 8th pick, etc.

 

I'm not sure I'm following you from that first post to the second, but ...

 

From what I have seen, the Pedro Alvarez kid is head and shoulders #1. For now anyways. So people here are rooting for the Sox to lose their games so they can draft a stud prospect. I understand that totally.

 

But what is the difference about people complaining? My point is, those complaints should be dismissed outright. Those people don't know anywhere close to what scouts know about these prospects. What is read on Baseball America and scout.com and wherever else is probably 10% of the knowledge base. Heck even if I sat down and talked at length with Callis or somebody who worked at BA, I might know 15%. There is a reason why scouts have fairly small territories, it's because they can get to know coaches, players, and other important people in depth.

 

As for the 2nd to 8th pick difference (in your example) yes there is obviously a difference, you get a bigger pool of players to pick from.

 

I completely understand people not wanting their team to lose no matter what, and I also completely understand wanting the team to lose in order to get a higher draft pick. No one will change their position so what's the point.

 

At this point, in terms of helping things for 2008, yes a high draft pick would be great but they won't help for 2008 nor will they help for 2009 more than likely. It might be better for the short term if guys like Contreras can continue to turn things around, if Richar has more showings like recently, if Fields finishes strong, and so on. And dare I say if Gavin Floyd does well.

 

If those improvements result in winning some games and therefore picking at #6 or #7, that's the way it goes.

 

Not to mention, things can change drastically with this whole draft scenario between now and June (players "ratings" going up/down).

 

 

[michelangelosmonkey]

No, those certain posters still wont budge from their stance winning meaningless September games (the previos season) was better than losing for the purpose of gaining draft position. We'll have to wait until those drafted ahead are producing in the majors for anyone to acknowledge their mistakes. And even then, I'm sure they'll just shrug their shoulders and say something such as "it is what it is."

 

Here's one prevailing question the 'winning' crowd has yet to answer -- what's the most beneficial part of winning out the remainder of the season? Name me ONE legitimate benefit. I could give you one benefit to losing out the remainder of the year -- having the opportunity to draft a HOF calibur player at #1. Yes, that player may still be available wherever we select; but they'd also be there at #1. As I see it, there's much more substance to our argument than the constrasting view held by Greg and the Gang.

 

Atleast we're facing Santana on Friday. Although would it shock anyone if the White Sox mounted their highest offensive output, post-changeup era, against him?

* Increasing Contreas Trade value.

* Increasing Garland trade value

* Gavin floyd getting confidence

* Positive results from Richar, Fields, Owens and young relief pitchers.

* Psychological positives.

* Not having to read headlines all off season like "From first to worst in two seasons", "From World Series to worst overall in two seasons." From Penthouse to outhouse".

 

All seem WAY better than the SLIM advantage #1 overall pick brings. Since 1965 there are THREE #1 overalls with OPS above .900.

Why is this complicated? There are 1500 amateur players taken...with #1 you have a choice of the top 1500. With #4 you have a choice of the top 1496. Virtually zero evidence you are more likely to hit gold with #1 over #2 or #3 or #4. There is some evidence of top 10...but within top ten?

 

[southsideirish71]

* Increasing Contreas Trade value.

* Increasing Garland trade value

* Gavin floyd getting confidence

* Positive results from Richar, Fields, Owens and young relief pitchers.

* Psychological positives.

* Not having to read headlines all off season like "From first to worst in two seasons", "From World Series to worst overall in two seasons." From Penthouse to outhouse".

 

All seem WAY better than the SLIM advantage #1 overall pick brings. Since 1965 there are THREE #1 overalls with OPS above .900.

Why is this complicated? There are 1500 amateur players taken...with #1 you have a choice of the top 1500. With #4 you have a choice of the top 1496. Virtually zero evidence you are more likely to hit gold with #1 over #2 or #3 or #4. There is some evidence of top 10...but within top ten?

 

If I had a choice between 1500 other players or Arod I will take Arod.

 

 

[Flash Tizzle]

* Increasing Contreas Trade value.

* Increasing Garland trade value

* Gavin floyd getting confidence

* Positive results from Richar, Fields, Owens and young relief pitchers.

* Psychological positives.

* Not having to read headlines all off season like "From first to worst in two seasons", "From World Series to worst overall in two seasons." From Penthouse to outhouse".

 

All seem WAY better than the SLIM advantage #1 overall pick brings. Since 1965 there are THREE #1 overalls with OPS above .900.

Why is this complicated? There are 1500 amateur players taken...with #1 you have a choice of the top 1500. With #4 you have a choice of the top 1496. Virtually zero evidence you are more likely to hit gold with #1 over #2 or #3 or #4. There is some evidence of top 10...but within top ten?

Couldn't the first several options happen whether or not the White Sox win?

 

And I don't believe psychological positives matter much. At this point in the season, they're probably dead and looking forward to the offseason. Next season is completely different. If Williams undergoes major roster changes, they'll be new life injected into the club regardless of how 2007 concludes.

 

Here's a concept you fail to understand -- considering our draft history, the Whtie Sox need EVERY benefit possible within the draft. You suggest there's no evidence you're likely to hit gold with a #1 pick, yet, when I browse through our recent draft history it doesn't seem we hit gold with anything. Why not cheer for the possibility of selecting high, and perhaps, receiving our Ken Griffey Junior, BJ Uption, Joe Mauer, Alex Rodriguez? There's going to be quite the lull between our first and second round pick. We don't exactly have the compensation round to fall back upon.

[SoxAce]

Look's like I'm 1-0 in game threads for '07.

 

And it looks like I messed up our chance for Pedro.

Edited September 20, 2007 by SoxAce

[Rowand44]

How'd JC's stuff look tonight?