The Battle For Last Place in the AL Central

[greg775]

Is it all mental with Contreras?

How in the f*** could he pitch a complete game tonight?

Great win, White Sox.

 

p.s. To those of you who think I am an idiot for wanting the Sox to win ... I challenge you to call a talk show and tell the host how you have been rooting for the team to lose every game to get the No. 1 pick. Be honest and tell me how the host laughs you off the show.

I have asked dozens of fans about your position and they all laugh and say the baseball draft is the biggest crapshoot of all.

Test it on a talk show, fellas and report back to me honestly at how the host laughs you away.

Do you honestly believe the people in the stands at games at the Cell the past 5 weeks want this team to lose?

Win baby, just win!

[michelangelosmonkey]

Couldn't the first several options happen whether or not the White Sox win?

 

And I don't believe psychological positives matter much. At this point in the season, they're probably dead and looking forward to the offseason. Next season is completely different. If Williams undergoes major roster changes, they'll be new life injected into the club regardless of how 2007 concludes.

 

Here's a concept you fail to understand -- considering our draft history, the Whtie Sox need EVERY benefit possible within the draft. You suggest there's no evidence you're likely to hit gold with a #1 pick, yet, when I browse through our recent draft history it doesn't seem we hit gold with anything. Why not cheer for the possibility of selecting high, and perhaps, receiving our Ken Griffey Junior, BJ Uption, Joe Mauer, Alex Rodriguez? There's going to be quite the lull between our first and second round pick. We don't exactly have the compensation round to fall back upon.

 

I'm not opposed to the White Sox leading every game 6-0 going into the eight inning and then have Mike Meyers give up 7 runs and they lose. But sadly...if Gavin and Garland and Contreas pitch well...Fields and Richar and Owens look good...Sox will probably win enough games to keep from having #1 overall pick.

 

As for me and my lack of understanding...as I have said...there IS evidence that top ten picks are more likely to be great players than later first round picks. The White Sox haven't picked in the top ten in 17 years. But even in the top 10 the odds are small. It's not a failure of any particular organization...it's just random. The Sox need to improve in all areas of player development. 1 pick is not that important...or so says Albert Pujols 13th round, Jim Thome 13th Round, Jake Peavey 15th round, John Smoltz--undrafted.

So why not just cheer to win? Go Sox Go.

[fathom]

Is it all mental with Contreras?

How in the f*** could he pitch a complete game tonight?

Great win, White Sox.

 

p.s. To those of you who think I am an idiot for wanting the Sox to win ... I challenge you to call a talk show and tell the host how you have been rooting for the team to lose every game to get the No. 1 pick. Be honest and tell me how the host laughs you off the show.

I have asked dozens of fans about your position and they all laugh and say the baseball draft is the biggest crapshoot of all.

Test it on a talk show, fellas and report back to me honestly at how the host laughs you away.

Do you honestly believe the people in the stands at games at the Cell the past 5 weeks want this team to lose?

Win baby, just win!

 

Yep, since talk show hosts are always the smartest people. Once again, who would you rather have the chance to draft, Cole Hamels or Royce Ring?

[Kalapse]

Now Sports Radio Shows (the lowest form of entertainment known to man) is the ultimate judge in this matter? Yes, this makes sense. How 'bout I call into ANY Chicago sports radio show and start asking them questions about Ehren Wasserman, Jack Egbert, Oneli Perez and Chris Carter? Players who will be contributing to the success of the White Sox starting in 2008 and beyond, they won't have a clue who any of them are. Believe it or not, these sports radio hosts don't put a whole hell of a lot of time into research, it's not all that important to them and more often than not these hosts are just f***ing idiots.

[greg775]

I'd rather have Cole, but that's not the point.

The point is win as many games as possible as use the draft as one of the ways to improve your team.

You can improve your team via trade and free agency and signing foreign players which is the way we must go I believe.

I will not waste a day of the precious baseball season wanting my team to lose.

The winter is too long as it is.

[michelangelosmonkey]

Yep, since talk show hosts are always the smartest people. Once again, who would you rather have the chance to draft, Cole Hamels or Royce Ring?

I'll agree on the idiocy of sports talk guys...but come on...you just can't play that Cole Hamels vs Royce Ring game. In 2002 draft Bryan Bullington, Christopher Gruler, Adam Lowen, and Clint Everts went before Prince Fielder. Every single draft you can do great retrospectively. But with those 1500 names sitting on your board? NO ONE KNOWS.

[greg775]

I'm just pointing out that you guys have the radical position on this issue, not me.

 

[fathom]

I'll agree on the idiocy of sports talk guys...but come on...you just can't play that Cole Hamels vs Royce Ring game. In 2002 draft Bryan Bullington, Christopher Gruler, Adam Lowen, and Clint Everts went before Prince Fielder. Every single draft you can do great retrospectively. But with those 1500 names sitting on your board? NO ONE KNOWS.

 

Yes, but it's a recent example that shows how much a one-game swing can impact the player available to take. Who knows, maybe the 7th pick will end up being better than the 1st pick. I just want the Sox to be in a position where the need to take the best player available, and not be in a position where they go the safe route (which is basically the new name for Jordan Danks).

[Kalapse]

It never fails. A new day, a new game thread, exact same arguments, exact same points being made on both sides and exact same people standing on each side of the issue. Dear god this is getting old and oh so boring.

[Kalapse]

I'm just pointing out that you guys have the radical position on this issue, not me.

It depends on what kind of person you're asking. You cited sports radio hosts and random ass fans, it doesn't surprise me one bit which side of the issue they'd come out on.

[greg775]

I just want the Sox to be in a position where the need to take the best player available, and not be in a position where they go the safe route (which is basically the new name for Jordan Danks).

 

My question is how can a one day draft next June affect your thinking on games played the last 2 months of this season?

Everybody has pointed out the draft is a crapshoot.

There are busts all the time in the draft.

One pick -- and no way that pick will sign until the deadline day if at all -- is not worth all this in my opinion.

[fathom]

It never fails. A new day, a new game thread, exact same arguments, exact same points being made on both sides and exact same people standing on each side of the issue. Dear god this is getting old and oh so boring.

 

Yeah, it does seem like deja vu. However, the sports talk show host opinion was played in this one....that's a new twist. I'll continue to root for the Sox to play just well enough to lose the rest of the way.

[Gene Honda Civic]

It never fails. A new day, a new game thread, exact same arguments, exact same points being made on both sides and exact same people standing on each side of the issue. Dear god this is getting old and oh so boring.

C'mon. We heard a new one tonight.

 

PFB as an ally.

 

The guy has the same job as Tony Snow, or the Iraqi Information Minister, but we should believe what he has to say.

[greg775]

It never fails. A new day, a new game thread, exact same arguments, exact same points being made on both sides and exact same people standing on each side of the issue. Dear god this is getting old and oh so boring.

 

It's boring to you because you or somebody else often states glee in the Sox losing and I cannot stand on letting the comment go by, especially on a White Sox Website where people understandably in my mind should want the team to win.

I notice there are never any new threads on here anymore.

It's all about the draft.

A one-day draft in June in which the Sox will draft some name we will not hear from for at least 2-3 years if at all.

[Kalapse]

One pick -- and no way that pick will sign until the deadline day if at all -- is not worth all this in my opinion.

Why do you keep saying this? Apparently you've done some research. When was the last time the Sox had a top 10 pick go unsigned? How often do their 1st round picks go unsigned? When was the last time a #1 overall pick went unsigned? How often does that happen?

 

Do you even know what happens to the draft pick if it goes unsigned?

[fathom]

My question is how can a one day draft next June affect your thinking on games played the last 2 months of this season?

Everybody has pointed out the draft is a crapshoot.

There are busts all the time in the draft.

One pick -- and no way that pick will sign until the deadline day if at all -- is not worth all this in my opinion.

 

The pro-loss side, which I'm on the Board of Trustees, doesn't see the value in a few worthless wins during the last month of the season. I'm sure guys like AJP and Konerko can't wait for the year to be over, and definitely won't let game #150 during a below .500 season impact how they go into ST next year.

[michelangelosmonkey]

It never fails. A new day, a new game thread, exact same arguments, exact same points being made on both sides and exact same people standing on each side of the issue. Dear god this is getting old and oh so boring.

Logic and reason always standing by ready to do battle against voodoo and witchcraft.

[Kalapse]

It's boring to you because you or somebody else often states glee in the Sox losing and I cannot stand on letting the comment go by, especially on a White Sox Website where people understandably in my mind should want the team to win.

I notice there are never any new threads on here anymore.

It's all about the draft.

A one-day draft in June in which the Sox will draft some name we will not hear from for at least 2-3 years if at all.

I figured it out. You're an instant gratification sort of guy, if you're not getting the payoff RIGHT NOW you don't want it at all. I bet if I offered you a choice: 1.) you get 20 bucks right now or 2.) I'll give you $120 in June of next year you'd take the 20 now.

 

Since the draft is 8 months away and any draft pick would take at least 2 years to develop in the minors you just don't want to think about it, you'd rather have the payoff of a win during a few meaningless games over the stretch run of a terrible baseball season even though a few losses RIGHT NOW could pay off 3 years from now.

 

And when I talk about the boring aspect of these debates I'm mainly bothered by the constant listing of past draft picks, it gets old. We've all seen the names and we don't f***ing care. Just because you throw the names Bullington, Bush, Smoltz and Buehrle out there ever 30 minutes doesn't mean anyone's opinion is going to change.

[michelangelosmonkey]

I figured it out. You're an instant gratification sort of guy, if you're not getting the payoff RIGHT NOW you don't want it at all. I bet if I offered you a choice: 1.) you get 20 bucks right now or 2.) I'll give you $120 in June of next year you'd take the 20 now.

 

Since the draft is 8 months away and any draft pick would take at least 2 years to develop in the minors you just don't want to think about it, you'd rather have the payoff of a win during a few meaningless games over the stretch run of a terrible baseball season even though a few losses RIGHT NOW could pay off 3 years from now.

 

And when I talk about the boring aspect of these debates I'm mainly bothered by the constant listing of past draft picks, it gets old. We've all seen the names and we don't f***ing care. Just because you throw the names Bullington, Bush, Smoltz and Buehrle out there ever 30 minutes doesn't mean anyone's opinion is going to change.

Just so I understand...it's evidence that bothers you? Facts are boring?

[fathom]

I just wish that some posters would realize that if we have a high pick, and don't sign them....we get that same pick the next year. Also, I showed a list of recent college hitters that were drafted and made it to the pros very quickly. I believe we'll choose a college player in the 2008 draft.

[hammerhead johnson]

I'm a member of the group that is bringing "logic and reason" to the table, and here is my counter argument:

 

BRYAN BULLINGTON

 

Nuff said.

[Kalapse]

Just so I understand...it's evidence that bothers you? Facts are boring?

The same evidence over and over again that means nothing to me. Yes.

 

I personally love the idea of the Sox being able to choose WHOEVER THEY WANT, they can take ANYONE. Past trends be damned. If KW wants he can take the guy who is considered the top rated prospect in the draft or the 13th but by golly he'll get his man because the Sox have the #1 pick. And that makes me happy. There's also like 10 other reasons I have for wanting the top pick, if you'd like you can go through the 30 other game threads this has been discussed in as well as the catch all thread and the 48 other random threads that contain these same arguments, I'm sure you'll find my thoughts on the matter in there somewhere.

[DBAHO]

I just wish that some posters would realize that if we have a high pick, and don't sign them....we get that same pick the next year. Also, I showed a list of recent college hitters that were drafted and made it to the pros very quickly. I believe we'll choose a college player in the 2008 draft.

Still that's a year of wasted development that you could have used if you draft a player but don't sign him, so it's not the ideal situation.

 

Everyone should be very happy with the outcome of tonight, even if you want this team to lose. Why? Jose Contreras. When was the last time he pitched a complete game and looked so good doing it? A team like Seattle may see that in think "He may have something left after all".

[Kalapse]

Here's my brand of "logic and reason": With the top pick you can take whoever you want, no limitations at all. With the #9 pick you can take anyone you want except the 8 players who were drafted before your turn to choose. So with the top pick you have unlimited flexibility but with any pick after that you're limited in your choices more and more.

 

IMO having greater flexibility in the selection of talent is an outstanding card to hold. Being handcuffed is not fun.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I'm a member of the group that is bringing "logic and reason" to the table, and here is my counter argument:

 

BRYAN BULLINGTON

 

Nuff said.

Carmen Electra!!!

 

What type of logic and reason do you use to show that Bryan Bullington has any more influence on the 2008 draft than Carmen Electra?

 

And couldn't I just counter whatever your argument was with the words "Pittsburgh Pirates" in bold size 8 font. Then in small type I could list the names Fernandez, McDowell, Thomas, and Ventura to demonstrate how a real organization capitalizes on "poor" draft position?

Edited September 20, 2007 by Gene Honda Civic