Scouts Missing ~ Found

[Texsox]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/24/scouts.missing/index.html

 

I've been watching this for a few hours and knew they were fine once they found their cars in the parking lot. An auto accident was the worst case scenario They had done everything correctly and easily could have stayed a few days without any worries.

[Texsox]

Discussions around the Scouting virtual campfire ponders if the Troop will be presented with a Search and Rescue bill even though they did exactly what they should have done, hunkered down and waited for morning. In my opinion the SAR group erred in starting a search after dark when the group clearly had the skills and equipment to survive a night out.

 

The only mistake that the Troop might have given was offering a "start searching" date. I've filed trip plans where I expected to be back in communication by Sunday at 5:00 PM, don't start searching until Monday at noon in case I'm slow coming down that ridge.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well Tex, you know I would appreciate that these scouts were as prepared as they were. I am glad to see that.

 

But as far as the rescue bill, I have to think they should be billed. Those rescue services provide an expensive, and risky service, and 80% of what they do is rescue people who did very stupid things. I think it would be unreasonable and perhaps even illegal for those services to start decided who does and does not get billed, based on their level of preparedness. You pretty much have to bill everyone.

 

[Texsox]

Well Tex, you know I would appreciate that these scouts were as prepared as they were. I am glad to see that.

 

But as far as the rescue bill, I have to think they should be billed. Those rescue services provide an expensive, and risky service, and 80% of what they do is rescue people who did very stupid things. I think it would be unreasonable and perhaps even illegal for those services to start decided who does and does not get billed, based on their level of preparedness. You pretty much have to bill everyone.

 

basically the argument is this, they never really needed rescue. The alternative was to continue to try and find their way out to avoid a bill that certainly would be in the thousands of dollars. Why would we want to reward risky behavior and punish smart behavior? I agree when some ill prepared newbie with a cell phone and a DVD of Survivorman pulls a stupid stunt, bill them, but this group wasn't negligent.

 

I agree that a bill everyone is a simpler policy, but billing based on negligent behavior is fairer. In this group, would you bill everyone? Just the adults? The adult in charge? Tough call.

[NorthSideSox72]

basically the argument is this, they never really needed rescue. The alternative was to continue to try and find their way out to avoid a bill that certainly would be in the thousands of dollars. Why would we want to reward risky behavior and punish smart behavior? I agree when some ill prepared newbie with a cell phone and a DVD of Survivorman pulls a stupid stunt, bill them, but this group wasn't negligent.

 

I agree that a bill everyone is a simpler policy, but billing based on negligent behavior is fairer. In this group, would you bill everyone? Just the adults? The adult in charge? Tough call.

I'd bill the organization running the trip - Boy Scouts of America.

 

I know it doesn't seem fair, but you cannot expect the Podunk County, North Carolina Fire Rescue Team to be judge and jury on who to bill and not bill.

 

[Texsox]

I'd bill the organization running the trip - Boy Scouts of America.

 

I know it doesn't seem fair, but you cannot expect the Podunk County, North Carolina Fire Rescue Team to be judge and jury on who to bill and not bill.

 

Techinically the BSA wasn't running the event. It was a local unit event, and I guess you could bill the Church who sponsors the Troop.

 

The non-billing groups do not expect them to be judge and jury, they would expect a court to decide based on negligence, same as any other civil case. Makes sense to me.

[NorthSideSox72]

Techinically the BSA wasn't running the event. It was a local unit event, and I guess you could bill the Church who sponsors the Troop.

 

The non-billing groups do not expect them to be judge and jury, they would expect a court to decide based on negligence, same as any other civil case. Makes sense to me.

OK, then you still have to send the bill. If they want to contest it, they can take it to court. And I am not really aware of all the legal trappings, but if this was a "local unit" event, I am pretty sure you can still send the bill to Boy Scouts of America. If you send it to the troop, they are just a unit of BSA anyway.

 

[Texsox]

OK, then you still have to send the bill. If they want to contest it, they can take it to court. And I am not really aware of all the legal trappings, but if this was a "local unit" event, I am pretty sure you can still send the bill to Boy Scouts of America. If you send it to the troop, they are just a unit of BSA anyway.

 

Actually BSA sells a "franchise" to charities with a curriculum to follow. This results in an interesting situation at times. All the equipment, for example, that my Troop and Crew earned money for and bought, is owned by our Charter Organization, the Methodist Church. The Church first approves the local leaders and Scouts, has control of their agenda, etc. It would be like billing Little League™ if it was one of their teams. But that doesn't really matter in this.

 

SARs billing is a relatively new practice and I imagine one that will shake out in time.

 

A further comment that made sense to me was this analogy based on another government service.

 

Your houses catches fire by accident = no billing

You commit arson = billed

 

I think we need to think carefully about this because it could lead people to make stupid decisions based on avoiding a bill. In this case, by billing, we are suggesting they should have continued to press on and find their way out in the dark. I think in the long run it may be smarter policy, and cheaper, to reward smart behaviors.

 

But a lot of me agrees with you. Bill everyone regardless if they were negligent or prepared.

[Texsox]

From one of my other lists

I have just returned from the Cruso, NC Volunteer Fire Department where

Troop 217 was brought in from the Shining Rock Wilderness. I hope that I can shed

some light on the details of the situation.

 

The troop overnighted at Black Balsam Campsite on the Art Lobe Trail in the

Shining Rock Wilderness, just off the Blue Ridge Parkway. On Saturday they

continued on this trail beyond a site known as the Flower Mound where they

apparently strayed from the trail. To the Scoutmaster's defense, this area of the

trail doesn't seem to be well marked.

 

When it was apparent that they were off the trail, the Leaders called for

the troop to set up camp in a small meadow just above Crawford Creek. This

morning the Scoutmaster left the troop with the two assistant Scoutmasters and

walked a small distance down an existing logging road where he encountered a

meter reader who took him to the Fire Department. There is apparently a few

homes/cabins on this road, county road 1100, thus the purpose of the meter

reader.

 

The Scoutmaster is an Eagle Scout and handled the incident as near perfect

as possible, in my opinion. The troop was well prepared for the trip, having

multiple "shake downs". The troop had food and water enough for several

additional days, medical supplies, water filtration equipment, proper clothing,

tents and sleeping bags. I estimate the Scoutmaster to be in his early 30's. He

used this experience to discuss what they did right, what they could improve

on, and kept the Scouts with a cool head and high spirits. Most of the troop

was asleep early last night and were somewhat surprised at the media attention

that was generated in our area.

 

One of the things that impressed me the most was when the troop was

assembled upstairs in the training room of the fire department was how he handled

<!-- D(["mb","this with his boys and his insight to help his boys understand the  spiritual\u003cbr /\>implications at work. He asked his troop Chaplin\'s aide to offer a  prayer. This\u003cbr /\>young Scout was insightful enough to acknowledge and thank God for  his\u003cbr /\>intervention, thank him for the Fire Department volunteers, the park service\u003cbr /\>employees, and even the local restaurant that sent them a traditional  western North\u003cbr /\>Carolina breakfast of sausage biscuits and gravy.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>At no time did I hear any mention of compensation from the Search and  Rescue\u003cbr /\>teams. The SAR Dog teams, as well as the Fire Department members are all\u003cbr /\>volunteers. In this area, these departments are called upon many times during\u003cbr /\>the summer and the leaf seasons. They are nationally recognized for their\u003cbr /\>professionalism and success rate. The lost Scouts represent a minute percentage  of\u003cbr /\>those who are rescued from this area.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>The parents were extremely supportive of their son\'s leaders and expressed\u003cbr /\>that they would not hesitate to send their son\'s out with these leaders again.\u003cbr /\>I  would add that based on what I saw, I would send my son out with this\u003cbr /\>Scoutmaster.\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>I hope this will continue to be a positive Scouting story as it has been in\u003cbr /\>this local media market. We have had an opportunity to spread the word about\u003cbr /\>the  training our leaders receive and the way our Scouts are taught to handle\u003cbr /\>adversity. To a one, these 11-14 year old young men showed the Scouting\u003cbr /\>spirit.  Thank you to all who put these boys, leaders and their families in your\u003cbr /\>prayers.  They were answered!\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>J. Steven  Taylor, Council Scout Executive and CEO\u003cbr /\>Daniel Boone Council, Boy Scouts of  America\u003cbr /\>P.O. Box 7626\u003cbr /\>333 West Haywood Street\u003cbr /\>Asheville, NC 28802\u003cbr /\>_www.danielboonecouncil.org_ (\u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"http://www.danielboonecouncil.org/\" target\u003d_blank\>http://www.danielboonecouncil\u003cwbr /\>.org/\u003c/a\>)\u003cbr /\>828-254-6189  or toll free 1-800-526-6708\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>\u003cbr /\>******************************\u003cwbr /\>******** See what\'s new at \u003ca onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\" href\u003d\"http://www.aol.com\" target\u003d_blank\>http://www.aol.com\u003c/a\>\u003cbr /\>\u003c/div\>",0] ); //-->this with his boys and his insight to help his boys understand the spiritual

implications at work. He asked his troop Chaplin's aide to offer a prayer. This

young Scout was insightful enough to acknowledge and thank God for his

intervention, thank him for the Fire Department volunteers, the park service

employees, and even the local restaurant that sent them a traditional western North

Carolina breakfast of sausage biscuits and gravy.

 

At no time did I hear any mention of compensation from the Search and Rescue

teams. The SAR Dog teams, as well as the Fire Department members are all

volunteers. In this area, these departments are called upon many times during

the summer and the leaf seasons. They are nationally recognized for their

professionalism and success rate. The lost Scouts represent a minute percentage of

those who are rescued from this area.

 

The parents were extremely supportive of their son's leaders and expressed

that they would not hesitate to send their son's out with these leaders again.

I would add that based on what I saw, I would send my son out with this

Scoutmaster.

 

I hope this will continue to be a positive Scouting story as it has been in

this local media market. We have had an opportunity to spread the word about

the training our leaders receive and the way our Scouts are taught to handle

adversity. To a one, these 11-14 year old young men showed the Scouting

spirit. Thank you to all who put these boys, leaders and their families in your

prayers. They were answered!