Appy League Top 20

[False Alarm]

BA's starting their league top 20s. martinez is the sox' only prospect on the list, though they said griffith would've made it as well if he'd pitched enough innings. i let my BA subscription lapse, so i can't post or paraphrase what they say about anyone in our org.

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prosp...res/264914.html

[maggsmaggs]

Griffin would have been on the list had he pitched enough innings, so that is nice to see.

[29andPoplar]

"The White Sox system contains very few position players of promise, and Martinez has more upside than most of them. He has the room to add much more strength to his 6-foot-5, 170-pound frame, making it easy to project him attaining above-average power. He can put on a show in batting practice, though he tends to overswing in games.

 

Martinez has athleticism as well. He has good speed and stole 12 bases in 14 attempts. He tracks the ball well and has a plus arm in right field, and he also saw some action in center."

 

From Baseball America's Appy League Top 20 Prospects List

[Gene Honda Civic]

Jesus, the Braves have 7 of the top 11 on that list.

[WhiteSoxfan1986]

Jesus, the Braves have 7 of the top 11 on that list.

 

The Twins have quite a few on the list as well.

[Palehosefan]

We have GOT to figure out what factory the Braves are getting their SS prospects from. That's ridiculous.

[Gene Honda Civic]

College SS out of power conferences. Big 12, and SEC...

 

Hicks was a 3rd rounder this year, promoted to the SALly league mid-season. He posted a 400+ OBP there.

 

Fischer was a 6th rounder this year, promoted to High-A, where he struggled, but didn't fall on his face. I suspect he was pushed faster because he was older.

 

It's really a mystery why the White Sox haven't drafted more SS over the years. Since the Daellero pick in '97 they haven't taken any SS higher than 4th round (Valido)... looking it up, that's wrong.. Morse was a 3rd rounder in '00, Andy Gonzalez and Stevie Daniels were 5th & 6th rounders in '01. Those 5 picks are the only SS drafted in the first 10 rounds of the draft the last 10 drafts. About 100 picks (more in reality) and only 5% of them are SS.

[NorthSideSox72]

We have GOT to figure out what factory the Braves are getting their SS prospects from. That's ridiculous.

well, we did get lucky with Miranda in the 7th round. He should, I'd think, make the top prospect list for the SAL.

 

[Gene Honda Civic]

I wouldn't have expected many players from Bristol to be placed on Baseball America's list.

 

Depending upon their criteria for judging talent, and others players across the league, I imagine we'll have 3/4 from Great Falls (Poreda, Moreno, Sanchez -- at the least) make the Pioneer League Top 20 tomorrow.

The consensus in the other thread seems to be that Sanchez won't make the list. Of the offensive players at GF, Marrero (2005 draft and follow) seems most likely to make the list.

 

Sanchez was in the PIO two years ago and Kanny last year, and he still is demonstrating poor control of the strikezone. Marrero, a year younger, is repeating the level, but controlled the strike zone last year, and improved upon that this year with a big power spike.

[Gene Honda Civic]

well, we did get lucky with Miranda in the 7th round. He should, I'd think, make the top prospect list for the SAL.

13th!

[NorthSideSox72]

13th!

Oh yeah, my bad. Not sure where I got 7th.

 

[Flash Tizzle]

The consensus in the other thread seems to be that Sanchez won't make the list. Of the offensive players at GF, Marrero (2005 draft and follow) seems most likely to make the list.

 

Sanchez was in the PIO two years ago and Kanny last year, and he still is demonstrating poor control of the strikezone. Marrero, a year younger, is repeating the level, but controlled the strike zone last year, and improved upon that this year with a big power spike.

I just noticed your post in the other thread. Similar to Northsidesox, I based my opinion upon his personal page on MiLB.com. There was no mention of previous time in the White Sox organization above Rookie ball. You quickly quoted my post before I could delete it. /shakes fist.

 

Damn. Angels and Brewers should have quite a few players on the list, judging from league statistics. If Marrero is on the list, it'll obviously be near the bottom.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Jesus, the Braves have 7 of the top 11 on that list.

 

Uh huh. Atlanta just has people who know how to gauge talent very, very well. I'm not sure how many scouts they have but I'm sure it's a lot and they're all very good. Minnesota is, I think, more impressive in that they scout every single player. Not all day every day, but they scout everyone to find hidden gems and make no bones about it. That's how they came upon Santana -- not by some stroke of "luck" like some would have you believe. It makes me sick to think about our scouts and our prospects and our lack of international presence.

[29andPoplar]

Uh huh. Atlanta just has people who know how to gauge talent very, very well. I'm not sure how many scouts they have but I'm sure it's a lot and they're all very good. Minnesota is, I think, more impressive in that they scout every single player. Not all day every day, but they scout everyone to find hidden gems and make no bones about it. That's how they came upon Santana -- not by some stroke of "luck" like some would have you believe. It makes me sick to think about our scouts and our prospects and our lack of international presence.

 

No doubt both Atlanta and Minnesota can identify talent but it's fair to note this question, and answer, from the Appalachian League chat from BA.

 

John M from NYC asks:

Was Danville and Elizabethton's dominantion of this year's list a product of two very strong teams or was it a result of the other teams in the league not offering much in terms of talent?

 

A: Nathan Rode: Both. The Twins and Braves don't have a short-season team like many others. Basically, the Appy League is their advanced Rookie team where guys go if they're too good for GCL, but not quite Low A ready. The other teams have that advanced team to play with. That's why you see Elizabethton and Danville dominate so much. That doesn't take away from other prospects. It's just a matter of concentration of players in a league.

 

Also, not sure what lack of international presence means regarding the White Sox. If you are talking about Australia and the Netherlands, it's true. However, few players thus far have come from those areas. White Sox have one of the most respected scouts in the game, Ray Poitevent, in the Pacific Rim and are well represented in the Dominican, Venezuela, Panama, Mexico, and Brazil. Two teams in the Dominican league as well, not many other teams do that. There is a frustration with the pipeline of players but they are well represented in the major talent producing countries.

 

 

[Gregory Pratt]

No doubt both Atlanta and Minnesota can identify talent but it's fair to note this question, and answer, from the Appalachian League chat from BA.

 

John M from NYC asks:

Was Danville and Elizabethton's dominantion of this year's list a product of two very strong teams or was it a result of the other teams in the league not offering much in terms of talent?

 

A: Nathan Rode: Both. The Twins and Braves don't have a short-season team like many others. Basically, the Appy League is their advanced Rookie team where guys go if they're too good for GCL, but not quite Low A ready. The other teams have that advanced team to play with. That's why you see Elizabethton and Danville dominate so much. That doesn't take away from other prospects. It's just a matter of concentration of players in a league.

 

Also, not sure what lack of international presence means regarding the White Sox. If you are talking about Australia and the Netherlands, it's true. However, few players thus far have come from those areas. White Sox have one of the most respected scouts in the game, Ray Poitevent, in the Pacific Rim and are well represented in the Dominican, Venezuela, Panama, Mexico, and Brazil. Two teams in the Dominican league as well, not many other teams do that. There is a frustration with the pipeline of players but they are well represented in the major talent producing countries.

 

We might have people there but we definitely aren't producing much from those countries. We aren't signing many international free agents and when was the last time we had an impact player or even an average player that we picked up from the international market? It's all well and good to have baseball academies but if we aren't signing international free agents -- identifying and signing guys like Liriano, Felix Hernandez (who the Braves had their hands on but who went to Seattle because of Freddy Garcia), Rafael Furcal, Maggs/Lee so long ago -- we've been abysmal for quite awhile now. You hardly ever hear about our activity down there, about us signing people.

[29andPoplar]

We might have people there but we definitely aren't producing much from those countries. We aren't signing many international free agents and when was the last time we had an impact player or even an average player that we picked up from the international market? It's all well and good to have baseball academies but if we aren't signing international free agents -- identifying and signing guys like Liriano, Felix Hernandez (who the Braves had their hands on but who went to Seattle because of Freddy Garcia), Rafael Furcal, Maggs/Lee so long ago -- we've been abysmal for quite awhile now. You hardly ever hear about our activity down there, about us signing people.

 

But actually you mentioned lack of international presence, which is what I responded to. Not anything about how many productive major leaguers have happened.

 

They generally keep their activities and signings fairly quiet, especially in the Dominican. There was no big press conference last winter when they signed Po Yu Lin, the pitcher. It was actually someone on one of the White Sox boards who dug up that info. Same is true for Anderson Gomes and Paulo Orlando out of Brazil, no press conferences for that either.

 

They sign lots of Dominican guys. I have posted this before and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the Bristol roster shows it. The White Sox are in fact signing international free agents and I expect that to continue and/or increase as more emphasis has been placed on expanding the Dominican operation. Also as I mentioned before, Ruben Amaro Sr. is in charge now which is good.

 

Iguchi, Shingo were two really good signings and watch for the Sox to be more active in the Pacific Rim this winter.

 

I am not defending them believe me. But the statement of lack of international presence is not correct.

Edited September 25, 2007 by 29andPoplar

[Gregory Pratt]

But actually you mentioned lack of international presence, which is what I responded to. Not anything about how many productive major leaguers have happened.

 

They actually keep their activities and signings fairly quiet, especially in the Dominican. There was no big press conference last winter when they signed Po Yu Lin, the pitcher. It was actually someone on one of the White Sox boards who dug up that info. Same is true for Anderson Gomes and Paulo Orlando out of Brazil, no press conferences for that either.

 

They sign lots of Dominican guys. I have posted this before and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the Bristol roster shows it. The White Sox are in fact signing international free agents and I expect that to continue and/or increase as more emphasis has been placed on expanding the Dominican operation. Also as I mentioned before, Ruben Amaro Sr. is in charge now which is good.

 

Iguchi, Shingo were two really good signings and watch for the Sox to be more active in the Pacific Rim this winter.

 

I am not defending them believe me. But the statement of lack of international presence is not correct.

 

When's the last time we spent significant money on a guy who could be a future star -- someone like Felix Hernandez or Rafael Furcal?

 

We have a presence -- we just don't sign superstars. Probably because of money.

[29andPoplar]

When's the last time we spent significant money on a guy who could be a future star -- someone like Felix Hernandez or Rafael Furcal?

 

We have a presence -- we just don't sign superstars. Probably because of money.

 

To directly answer your question, which is an entirely different question/issue that I originally responded to ... my answer is this ... many many many of those kids at age 16 could turn out to be a star. Their philosophy is to sign lots of guys and develop them as best as possible. No they do not spend as much money as the Mets, the Yankees and a few other teams in paying out big bonus money but I would bet with their Dominican academy and scouting staff and two Dominican League teams their expenditures are on par with many of the aforementioned teams. No way to prove it though so it may be an offpoint statement.

 

It requires a bigger picture view, which also seems to be a phrase I use a lot on this site. Would the Braves like to have Juan Moreno in their stable, yes they would. Would the White Sox want to have some of the Braves guys in the Appy League, of course they would.

 

But again, the original point was they lack an international presence, and you have explained the deeper issue behind your statement to which I objected.

 

The good news is, their international presence has increased, as had their financial commitment. It does seem they like bringing in proven players i.e. spending money that way, in the Far East.

[Gregory Pratt]

To directly answer your question, which is an entirely different question/issue that I originally responded to ... my answer is this ... many many many of those kids at age 16 could turn out to be a star. Their philosophy is to sign lots of guys and develop them as best as possible. No they do not spend as much money as the Mets, the Yankees and a few other teams in paying out big bonus money but I would bet with their Dominican academy and scouting staff and two Dominican League teams their expenditures are on par with many of the aforementioned teams. No way to prove it though so it may be an offpoint statement.

 

It requires a bigger picture view, which also seems to be a phrase I use a lot on this site. Would the Braves like to have Juan Moreno in their stable, yes they would. Would the White Sox want to have some of the Braves guys in the Appy League, of course they would.

 

But again, the original point was they lack an international presence, and you have explained the deeper issue behind your statement to which I objected.

 

The good news is, their international presence has increased, as had their financial commitment. It does seem they like bringing in proven players i.e. spending money that way, in the Far East.

 

I don't know how true that is. I won't doubt you too much but we will have to wait and see. I hope it's true, though, and we soon start spending money on some of these young studs who will, at the least, serve as good trade chips. (Elvis Andrus has gone down and isn't quite what people thought he would be but the Braves used him to help land Teixeira.)

 

I love far east players, but I'm big on the latin american countries and signing them, too. We need a Liriano or a Furcal -- before they cost millions and millions for several years. Maybe DLS can be that guy.

[29andPoplar]

Maybe DLS can be that guy.

 

Maybe. They tend to focus on pitching above anything else and I believe you will see them move slightly off that philosophy. They have always said if you have pitching you can trade it for anything, but in todays game that isn't always easy to accomplish.

 

They sign lots of Dominican/Latin American catchers but can't seem to develop them. Player development is under the microscope big time.

 

Also they have been so honed in on pitching, both in the draft and internationally, they badly need an influx of impact or at a minimum smart bats as well as good defensive players. I am as interested as anyone on the new approach to the draft, if in fact it will be a new approach. Also I am very interested in what changes they make in player development, and what impact Amaro Sr. will have in the Dominican. There are no easy answers, it is not as simple as let's throw money at it. They have work to do and I have been following closely and asking lots of questions to people who might have insight. I see them making some positive changes and expect they will continue to make more positive changes.