Columbus Day Discussion

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Going to spend the next two days discussing Christopher Columbus and the controversy surrounding Columbus Day.

 

I've got a "Myths vs Facts" piece from the pro-Columbus Order of the Sons of Italy. I've also got a piece from Howard Zinn's "Young Peoples' History of the United States" and a 4 minute video clip about de las Casas and what the Spanish did in the Americas. The whole thread of the class so far is the idea that we can't be neutral on a moving train -- so all history from textbooks to the supplements take sides on an issue. We talk about controversy because it is interesting and they seem interested in it rather than just recitation of facts.

 

We're going to start reading through those together and then listing all the good things that came from Columbus's actions, all the bad things that came from Columbus's actions and then have each of them figure out if what Columbus did was right or wrong. I may throw the question that there is little controversy over the accuracy of what Columbus did to the Taino/Arawaks, so why is it not included in textbooks?

 

Then Wednesday I'll be throwing questions at them using role reversals (if it was right, what if you were a Native or if it was wrong, what if you were a European who was making money from the activity), global consequences (what if everybody acted in that way) and then I force them to think outside the box -- given the situation and our school's 3 Be's -- Be Respectful, Be Responsible, Be Considerate -- to come up with alternate solutions to the situation that use the school's 3 Be's.

 

I may also throw out there -- Given the perspectives we discussed, how do the students think we should celebrate Columbus Day?

[mr_genius]

Wednesday I'll be throwing questions at them using role reversals (if it was right, what if you were a Native or if it was wrong, what if you were a European who was making money from the activity), global consequences (what if everybody acted in that way)

 

Your question is being phrased in a way which suggests what response you would like to hear. You might want to change "to make money from" to "move to and settle". Also, your question of "what if everyone did this" is not a legit question. Everyone has done it. Many suggest the origin of Native Americans arrived from Asia during the Pleistocene Age by the Bearing Strait. Cultures from around the world have been moving and fighting since written history (and certainly even before). So your suggestion that this is only something that happens with the United States is misguided at best.

 

 

And, for disclosure, I don't think we should celebrate Columbus day. The mass slaughter and seizure of the "Indians" land was tragic.

Edited September 25, 2007 by mr_genius

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Your question is being phrased in a way which suggests what response you would like to hear. You might want to change "to make money from" to "move to and settle". Also, your question of "what if everyone did this" is not a legit question. Everyone has done it. Native Americans are also Europeans according to science. They traveled across from what is now considered Russia. Cultures from around the world have been moving and fighting since written history (and certainly even before). So your suggestion that this is only something only happens with the United States is misguided at best.

And, for disclosure, I don't think we should celebrate Columbus day. The mass slaughter and seizure of the "Indians" land was tragic.

In Columbus's own journals, it states that the goals of the journeys were made for mining and production of gold for Spanish coffers. Subsequent activities de las Casas and others who were there in their primary sources discussed the pursuit of gold being a primary factor -- hence the wording of the question.

 

The global consequences question is more for the way that the Spaniards treated the Natives (i.e. cutting the hands off the people who did not get them gold, etc.) De las Casas does an excellent job of discussing the offenses. It is more of 'if the ends justify the means in that situation, what happens if all use those means to get a positive end?'

[mr_genius]

In Columbus's own journals, it states that the goals of the journeys were made for mining and production of gold for Spanish coffers. Subsequent activities de las Casas and others who were there in their primary sources discussed the pursuit of gold being a primary factor -- hence the wording of the question.

 

The global consequences question is more for the way that the Spaniards treated the Natives (i.e. cutting the hands off the people who did not get them gold, etc.) De las Casas does an excellent job of discussing the offenses. It is more of 'if the ends justify the means in that situation, what happens if all use those means to get a positive end?'

 

Yea, I guess the original motives for Columbus' journey would be a issue as to answer the question 'should we celebrate Columbus day?'. But I get the feeling that this debate is going to much more based on what happened to the natives after mass settlement began. Should people be allowed to move where ever they want with no regard to the population already in the vicinity?

Edited September 25, 2007 by mr_genius

[NorthSideSox72]

Interesting topic, good forum for your class.

 

I actually got into some heated debates about this in college, in the daily paper even. Went back and forth with a columnist. I personally don't think it should be celebrated as a holiday, for three very simple reasons:

 

1. Columbus was not the first, by any stretch of the imagination, to land in America. The Vikings were on the continent in the 9th and 10th centuries, the Irish may have even landed shortly after, and now there is strong evidence the Chinese were here too. Oh, and, Columbus wasn't even the first Spaniard (well, I know, he was Italian, sent by Spain), let alone European, to land - Corte Real landed in Nova Scotia in 1481. And none of that even deals with the fact that there were natives in the Americas for at least 15,000 years, and now they are saying maybe longer than that. Columbus was simply another chapter in history.

 

2. Columbus himself was, of course, no great guy. They used the locals, then killed them. Not someone worth making into a hero.

 

3. What Columbus symbolizes - the subjugation of the natives in the Americas, particularly by the Spaniards - is something that is very much worth studying, but not so much worth celebrating.

 

When you look at the history of not only the Americas, but the U.S., one of the great, defining themes was the annihilation of native cultures. It was at the same time a horrible genocide, and yet, something that had to happen in order for the greatest nation the world has seen to become what it did. I therefore applaud your efforts to explore this part of history, because to understand it is to understand America.

 

[LowerCaseRepublican]

The discussion went awesomely.

 

A good third of the class was believing that Columbus should be honored with a day and about 2/3 of the classes were ready to get rid of the federal holiday. Most of the time I didn't even have to say a word -- it was them playing off of each other's comments which led to a really great discussion.

 

Probably one of the best comments was: "It's good to see these people as human. Everybody does some good stuff that we should be remembered for but we also do a whole lot of crap that we'd probably be embarrassed by."

[kapkomet]

LCR,

 

I commend you. Seriously. I'm glad you care enough to get these kids to actually critically think in this day and age, and I really hope that they see it and are better for it. 7th grade is a really impressionable time in a kiddo's life, and I appreciate what you try to teach them.

 

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