The environment thread

[BigSqwert]

Only 97% of the scientific community believe humans are causing climate change.

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah, but you didn't see Jas agree with those statements.

I think he's done a terrible job. I don't necessarily think he's intentionally screwing things up.

[Chisoxfn]

There's lots of things you can blame Obama for here.

 

1. Not reforming the MMS fast enough

2. Being slow in the response

3. Leaving BP too much in control

4. Not committing enough resources to deal with the cleanup

5. Not responding fast enough to international offers of help

 

I could go on.

I agree with all of those. And that is what I've been saying and ripping into Obama for.

[StrangeSox]

Judge blocks deep water dilling moratorium:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/us/23drill.html

[BigSqwert]

Judge blocks deep water dilling moratorium:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/23/us/23drill.html

He also owns stock in drilling companies. No conflict of interest there.

[Balta1701]

He also owns stock in drilling companies. No conflict of interest there.

Even still, his argument is that the Obama administration acted "arbitrarily and capriciously" in shutting down drilling operations with no link to the BP well, and I'd say that is an accurate description of a blanket moratorium. It's possible that the law may somewhere give the executive branch the ability to issue arbitrary and capricious orders like that, I'll defer to other legal experts, but the judge may well be right on the letter of the law.

 

And of course, if it gets to the Supreme Court, he will become right on the letter of the law, because even if he's wrong, a 5-4 decision will overhaul the letter of the law.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Only 97% of the scientific community believe humans are causing climate change.

 

Yep, you can bet that's exactly how the deniers will paint it — only a 97% consensus. It's hard to think of any other topic where there is a 97% agreement in the scientific community.

[NorthSideSox72]

Even still, his argument is that the Obama administration acted "arbitrarily and capriciously" in shutting down drilling operations with no link to the BP well, and I'd say that is an accurate description of a blanket moratorium. It's possible that the law may somewhere give the executive branch the ability to issue arbitrary and capricious orders like that, I'll defer to other legal experts, but the judge may well be right on the letter of the law.

 

And of course, if it gets to the Supreme Court, he will become right on the letter of the law, because even if he's wrong, a 5-4 decision will overhaul the letter of the law.

I'd bet it doesnt get that far. Instead, they will just narrow their scope and do what they can - not approve any new stuff, change the regulations for safety review, and cite a bunch of exploratory drilling cites to shut down temporarily. That way, nothing the courts can do to stop it.

 

[BigSqwert]

For those looking for a depressing afternoon read. Ugh

[Jenksismyhero]

For those looking for a depressing afternoon read. Ugh

 

Pssh. That's nothing compared to this new study.

[bigklita]

Yep, you can bet that's exactly how the deniers will paint it — only a 97% consensus. It's hard to think of any other topic where there is a 97% agreement in the scientific community.

 

Gravity?

[southsider2k5]

Gravity?

 

The earth is the center of the universe?

[KipWellsFan]

Gravity?

 

Aren't scientists actually unsure why gravity works the way it does? Like, if gravity worked the way they thought, the universe wouldn't still be expanding... or something dorky like that.

 

[bigklita]

Aren't scientists actually unsure why gravity works the way it does? Like, if gravity worked the way they thought, the universe wouldn't still be expanding... or something dorky like that.

 

Now, that I think about it there is alot about gravity that we aren't sure about. It probably wasn't the best example to use.

[StrangeSox]

Aren't scientists actually unsure why gravity works the way it does? Like, if gravity worked the way they thought, the universe wouldn't still be expanding... or something dorky like that.

 

Sort of. That's why dark energy/ matter is proposed. And the actual mechanisms of gravity and what actually gives things mass still aren't well understood.

 

But really, the point that AGW has an incredibly strong consensus still stands. It's said that propaganda to the contrary is so successful. Now, a consensus can always be wrong, but it still exists and they've done a good job planting huge amounts of doubt about that in the public.

[StrangeSox]

More on Nigeria's oil spill problems, which happen at a worse rate than our own spill and happen year after year.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/3...ger-delta-shell

[Balta1701]

NASA says hi again.

 

[Balta1701]

The Leaf looks to be potentially as solid of a brand-building vehicle for Nissan as the Prius was for Toyota.

In auto speak, conquest sales can be loosely defined as a legal form of stealing from others, as in taking potential sales away from other models or swiping buyers who are typically loyal to another brand. Conquest sales are highly coveted, and most automakers actually aim to make vehicles that will sway buyers away from another brand and towards a lifelong commitment to its models. If gaining conquest sales was Nissan's goal with the Leaf, early results show that it succeeded in spades.

 

According to Brian Carolin, Nissan's senior vice president for sales and marketing, the company has recorded 14,000 pre-orders for the Leaf in the U.S. alone. Of those 14,000, the company claims that 90 percent currently own and drive non-Nissan products. If true, the Leaf's conquest is almost without comparison. Few vehicles can capably convert loyal buyers over with this level of authority.

[Balta1701]

Aw crap.

BP suffered another setback in the Gulf of Mexico on Wednesday, when a discharge of liquid and gases forced the company to remove the containment cap that for three weeks had been able to capture a large portion of the oil gushing from its damaged well.

 

Adm. Thad W. Allen of the Coast Guard, at a mid-day briefing in Washington, said a remote-controlled submersible operating a mile beneath the surface had most likely bumped a vent and compromised the system. Live video from the seafloor showed oil and gas storming out of the well unrestricted, with the stub end of the riser appearing to show some erosion.

 

This was yet another complication in BP’s two-month-old struggle to contain the tens of thousands of barrels of oil spewing into the gulf.

 

On Tuesday, BP said it had been able to capture 16,665 barrels of oil through its containment cap, two-thirds of the total recovery operation. Another system, connected to a Q4000 vessel, is still operating since it is connected through a separate pipe near the seabed, rather than directly atop the failed blowout preventer. This system siphons the oil and gas and then burns it on the ship.

I do like how something around 25% of the daily spill volume is considered a "large portion".

[Balta1701]

Tesla Motors will go public later this month.

[Balta1701]

If it wasn't for what was going on in the gulf, this would strike me as half exciting and half "WTF"?

But about three miles off the coast of Alaska, BP is moving ahead with a controversial and potentially record-setting project to drill two miles under the sea and then six to eight miles horizontally to reach what is believed to be a 100-million-barrel reservoir of oil under federal waters.

 

All other new projects in the Arctic have been halted by the Obama administration’s moratorium on offshore drilling, including more traditional projects like Shell Oil’s plans to drill three wells in the Chukchi Sea and two in the Beaufort.

 

But BP’s project, called Liberty, has been exempted as regulators have granted it status as an “onshore” project even though it is about three miles off the coast in the Beaufort Sea. The reason: it sits on an artificial island — a 31-acre pile of gravel in about 22 feet of water — built by BP.

[kapkomet]

BAN OIL. NOW.

[Balta1701]

BAN OIL. NOW.

You say that as though it'd be a bad thing if we could get ourselves off of it.

[Jenksismyhero]

You say that as though it'd be a bad thing if we could get ourselves off of it.

 

We can't, so lets stop living that dream.

 

So I assume most here would find the argument that the ban on near-shore drilling, whic is forcing oil companies to venture out into deeper, more complex drilling areas (with inherently more difficult and complex repairs if anything were to go wrong), is not a good one?

[NorthSideSox72]

We can't, so lets stop living that dream.

We can, for energy purposes - just not immediately, and not without making some hard choices. And in fact we will, because we will have to. Its really only a question of when, how fast we get there, and whether we're in front of the technologies or behind them. Since I'd like to actually see some growth of sustainable, high-paying jobs (read: not road construction), I'd prefer we be in front.