Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 01:17 PM) I'm pretty sure our government is irreparably broken. I thought government was the answer to everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 I'm even more sure I've never made that argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 01:29 PM) I thought government was the answer to everything? I'd be curious to hear a legal professional's view on my earlier post. Do you not see a danger in the US Congress legislating what should be scientific decisions on status of species under ESA (as related to 5A takings clause)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 01:49 PM) I'd be curious to hear a legal professional's view on my earlier post. Do you not see a danger in the US Congress legislating what should be scientific decisions on status of species under ESA (as related to 5A takings clause)? Oh no, I absolutely agree with you guys here. It's a terrible precedent, but so is most of what the government is doing these days. We've completely bastardized the intentions of the FF's. Some positive things have happened, sure, but I don't think we have the representative government we were supposed to have. In fact most of the FF's had fears of what we have right now - a ruling elite, lack of representation, too much federal power, too much governmental intervention, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The budget agreement includes a 60% cut in Federal Funds for High Speed Rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) Oh no, I absolutely agree with you guys here. It's a terrible precedent, but so is most of what the government is doing these days. We've completely bastardized the intentions of the FF's. Some positive things have happened, sure, but I don't think we have the representative government we were supposed to have. In fact most of the FF's had fears of what we have right now - a ruling elite, lack of representation, too much federal power, too much governmental intervention, etc. LOL what do you think the FF's were? Only white, land-owning males were allowed to vote, and Madison explicitly stated that the point of the Senate was to protect the "natural aristocracy" from the peons, at least in his view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:04 PM) LOL what do you think the FF's were? Only white, land-owning males were allowed to vote, and Madison explicitly stated that the point of the Senate was to protect the "natural aristocracy" from the peons, at least in his view. Yeah, in that sense you're right. I guess I was meaning more that today's politics you have a douche (rich) or a turd sandwich (rich) who create policy for the rich. The belief that average American's can be adequately represented is completely gone. That was my big enthusiasm for the tea party. In such a short time people banded together and got people elected. Shoot, even with Obama I was hoping he would be like that. But then they get to Washington and those dreams die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) Yeah, in that sense you're right. I guess I was meaning more that today's politics you have a douche (rich) or a turd sandwich (rich) who create policy for the rich. The belief that average American's can be adequately represented is completely gone. That was my big enthusiasm for the tea party. In such a short time people banded together and got people elected. Shoot, even with Obama I was hoping he would be like that. But then they get to Washington and those dreams die. The people they elected were more corporate friendly than the ones they replaced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) The people they elected were more corporate friendly than the ones they replaced! Eh, debatable. But in the end it doesn't matter because they still caved to corporate interests, as well as their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:39 PM) Eh, debatable. But in the end it doesn't matter because they still caved to corporate interests, as well as their own. No it's not. They are free-market ideology evangelists who believe that less regulations and more corporate subsidies and tax breaks for the rich are the solutions to the world's problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) Yeah, in that sense you're right. I guess I was meaning more that today's politics you have a douche (rich) or a turd sandwich (rich) who create policy for the rich. The belief that average American's can be adequately represented is completely gone. That was my big enthusiasm for the tea party. In such a short time people banded together and got people elected. Shoot, even with Obama I was hoping he would be like that. But then they get to Washington and those dreams die. Call me cynical, but I don't think it ever really existed. Hell, it took decades or even centuries for a giant chunk of Americans to even get voting rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) No it's not. They are free-market ideology evangelists who believe that less regulations and more corporate subsidies and tax breaks for the rich are the solutions to the world's problems. I don't think they're evangelists and I don't know that they'd necessarily agree with less regulation (which is broad). They're anti-government intervention and pro free-market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 03:49 PM) Call me cynical, but I don't think it ever really existed. Hell, it took decades or even centuries for a giant chunk of Americans to even get voting rights. Yeah, there's that aspect sure, but I think for a while the federal government's role was a lot smaller and local/state governments actually held the most power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) Yeah, there's that aspect sure, but I think for a while the federal government's role was a lot smaller and local/state governments actually held the most power. Local and state government is just as susceptible, if not more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:09 PM) I don't think they're evangelists and I don't know that they'd necessarily agree with less regulation (which is broad). They're anti-government intervention and pro free-market. Like I said, free market evangelists. Just look at Ryan's budget proposal that relies on wrong-on-their-face numbers (2.8% unemployment!) from the Heritage Foundation (known for hilarious bad projections in favor of their free market ideology) but is staunchly supported by tea party people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:15 PM) Like I said, free market evangelists. Just look at Ryan's budget proposal that relies on wrong-on-their-face numbers (2.8% unemployment!) from the Heritage Foundation (known for hilarious bad projections in favor of their free market ideology) but is staunchly supported by tea party people. I love how you always go for the extreme in these discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) Extreme times call for extreme measures, my friend. edit: but I don't see pointing out overwhelming support for Ryan's market evangelist fantasy budget as going for the extremes, just pointing out the ideological support from the tea party for the free market mantra. Edited April 12, 2011 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:35 PM) Extreme times call for extreme measures, my friend. edit: but I don't see pointing out overwhelming support for Ryan's market evangelist fantasy budget as going for the extremes, just pointing out the ideological support from the tea party for the free market mantra. But you project that support as being the norm of a movement or people. Maybe people just like it because it's one of the first actual attempts at reigning in this f***ing retarded government of ours. That doesn't mean they agree with it 100%. That doesn't mean that he's written the Magna Carta of government spending. It just means he threw out an idea that resonated with people. I dunno why that's such a deplorable thing. And really, he's using bad statistics and estimates. Politicians NEVER do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:43 PM) But you project that support as being the norm of a movement or people. Maybe people just like it because it's one of the first actual attempts at reigning in this f***ing retarded government of ours. That doesn't mean they agree with it 100%. That doesn't mean that he's written the Magna Carta of government spending. It just means he threw out an idea that resonated with people. I dunno why that's such a deplorable thing. And really, he's using bad statistics and estimates. Politicians NEVER do that! His idea strips away most of the social safety net for the poor and middle class, doesn't really touch the DoD and doesn't actually balance the budget for 30 years (and that's with his ridiculous employment numbers) while giving the wealthy and corporations more tax cuts at the same time. It's a pretty deplorable plan, and the people who support it or are even further to the right of it deserve derision. I'm projecting it on the politicians who that movement or people got elected and who have repeatedly espoused this ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Ugh, and again i'm done. Your bleeding heart is just too damned suffocating to have real discussions about these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) Ugh, and again i'm done. Your bleeding heart is just too damned suffocating to have real discussions about these issues. It's hard to have discussions about the destruction of the social safety net in favor of hefty tax cuts for the wealthy (you cannot objectively argue that this is exactly what Ryan's plan does) with someone who thinks a majority of poor people that utilize said net are stupid, lazy criminals who deserve their lot in life. It's exactly this belief of "capitalism is a human value sorting algorithm" that I've been mocking, and it's embedded in the core of conservative and libertarian economic ideology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 12, 2011 -> 04:58 PM) It's hard to have discussions about the destruction of the social safety net in favor of hefty tax cuts for the wealthy (you cannot objectively argue that this is exactly what Ryan's plan does) with someone who thinks a majority of poor people that utilize said net are stupid, lazy criminals who deserve their lot in life. It's exactly this belief of "capitalism is a human value sorting algorithm" that I've been mocking, and it's embedded in the core of conservative and libertarian economic ideology. Oh I know, and if only government could provide for people in the way you want them too then life would be just roses and candy! All the problems of society would just float away! People would respect each other and play nice with each other. It's such a shame that people in this country are completely and utterly helpless and only government (led by liberals) knows the best way to protect them from that big bad evil world out there. And that prevailing thought has been embedded in core conservative/libertarian ideology because for CENTURIES it's precisely that thinking that has gotten this country to where it's at. Perfect? No. Better than anything else in history? Absolutely. Edited April 12, 2011 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 (edited) LOL, nice dodge. edit: also nice illustration of the free market evangelism I was talking about. Edited April 13, 2011 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 So, Tex, has your evening news introduced you to the term "pyrocumulonimbus" yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Texas is burning "border to border" http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0420/Tex...ont-lifts-hopes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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