The environment thread

[Jenksismyhero]

Global warming leads to prostitution:

 

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/hous...ansactional-sex

 

The resolution, from Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.) and a dozen other Democrats, says the results of climate change include drought and reduced agricultural output. It says these changes can be particularly harmful for women.

"[F]ood insecure women with limited socioeconomic resources may be vulnerable to situations such as sex work, transactional sex, and early marriage that put them at risk for HIV, STIs, unplanned pregnancy, and poor reproductive health," it says.

[iamshack]

Pay as you go electricity....good or bad?

[Balta1701]

Pay as you go electricity....good or bad?

Define it?

[iamshack]

Define it?

Well, with smart meters, utilities can now easily track and bill for electricity usage. They can also start up and shut down electricity remotely, in minutes, rather than sending a crew out to do so.

 

A pay as you go program would allow people to pre-pay via the Internet and track their usage up to the minute. If they used up all their prepaid electricity, it would be turned off remotely until they paid for more. There would be no credit checks, deposits to turn power back on, or late fees.

[StrangeSox]

...how am i going to pay for more without electricity to get on the internet?

 

What's the benefit for the consumer? Seems massively in favor of the power companies.

[iamshack]

...how am i going to pay for more without electricity to get on the internet?

 

What's the benefit for the consumer? Seems massively in favor of the power companies.

You use your smartphone, or you don't wait until you actually use up all your money?

 

The benefit is you don't have to pay large deposits. Consumers also seem to enjoy having the ability to track and control their spending better.

 

The analogy used by the power companies is usually to gasoline in your car...would you want to pay for electricity similarly to how you pay for gasoline? Apparently consumers in prepay programs use 10% less power on average...

[southsider2k5]

...how am i going to pay for more without electricity to get on the internet?

 

What's the benefit for the consumer? Seems massively in favor of the power companies.

 

How's that tinfoil hat fitting?

[StrangeSox]

How's that tinfoil hat fitting?

Tinfoil hat?

 

Huh? i just meant that the power company is going to receive the money upfront, probably a 60 day swing between pre-pay and post-pay Billing cycles. I don't really see the benefits of it from the consumer side.

[iamshack]

Tinfoil hat?

 

Huh? i just meant that the power company is going to receive the money upfront, probably a 60 day swing between pre-pay and post-pay Billing cycles. I don't really see the benefits of it from the consumer side.

I really don't either, unless you are cash-strapped...apparently there are a lot of people that pay their bill in cash and struggle to pay their bill...which means it then gets disconnected. In order to get it re-connected, they have to pay a pretty sizable deposit. This allows them to have more control over the entire process.

 

However, electricity is not like cell phone minutes. It's pretty much a necessity in modern industrial society. I don't think the majority of people are going to want to deal with the potential of having their electricity turned off because they ran out of kilowatt hours...even though service can be returned in minutes by putting more money in your "account."

 

But the programs have gotten a lot of positive feedback in other areas.

[Balta1701]

You use your smartphone, or you don't wait until you actually use up all your money?

 

The benefit is you don't have to pay large deposits. Consumers also seem to enjoy having the ability to track and control their spending better.

 

The analogy used by the power companies is usually to gasoline in your car...would you want to pay for electricity similarly to how you pay for gasoline? Apparently consumers in prepay programs use 10% less power on average...

People pay large deposits? Is that something heavy users or businesses do? I've known that there were some pre-pay options but never felt a need to do anything about it since my electric bill doesn't change all that much from month to month.

[iamshack]

People pay large deposits? Is that something heavy users or businesses do? I've known that there were some pre-pay options but never felt a need to do anything about it since my electric bill doesn't change all that much from month to month.

Yeah, if you have bad credit or a history of not paying your bill...

 

I think in the southwest and the south, where there is a lot of menial labor and a cash economy, as well as big swings in utility bills because of the oppressive summer heat and the mild winter temps, some lower income folks struggle with it.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, if you have bad credit or a history of not paying your bill...

 

I think in the southwest and the south, where there is a lot of menial labor and a cash economy, as well as big swings in utility bills because of the oppressive summer heat and the mild winter temps, some lower income folks struggle with it.

All right...well let me put it this way, the only thing I have a problem with is the actual turning the power off if that's done in an inappropriate way...because 90% of the time that'll go fine and then occasionally you'll kill someone. The "occasionally killing someone from heatstroke/freezing" is the part that the utility pulling the plug on people would need to proactively avoid. How they do that is up to them, but overall, I'm very much a fan of smart meters and wider deployment of them.

[Jenksismyhero]

Speaking of electricity, apparently I've been chosen to participate in an "electric aggregation" program, whatever the hell that means. The Village I live in has signed a one year deal with another electric company whose rates are approx. 20% less than ComEd. I also have the option to pay slightly more and the company will buy Renewable Energy Certificates to cover 100% of my electricity usage.

 

I don't really understand how or why the Village or the electric company are doing this.

[StrangeSox]

I really don't either, unless you are cash-strapped...apparently there are a lot of people that pay their bill in cash and struggle to pay their bill...which means it then gets disconnected. In order to get it re-connected, they have to pay a pretty sizable deposit. This allows them to have more control over the entire process.

 

However, electricity is not like cell phone minutes. It's pretty much a necessity in modern industrial society. I don't think the majority of people are going to want to deal with the potential of having their electricity turned off because they ran out of kilowatt hours...even though service can be returned in minutes by putting more money in your "account."

 

But the programs have gotten a lot of positive feedback in other areas.

 

I don't see any problem with it being an option, I just don't understand why someone would take it. Is it offered at a discount, like pre-paying for a rental car is?

 

Is there any buffer or warning, or do you just hit your quota and bam--the lights shut off?

[Balta1701]

Speaking of electricity, apparently I've been chosen to participate in an "electric aggregation" program, whatever the hell that means. The Village I live in has signed a one year deal with another electric company whose rates are approx. 20% less than ComEd. I also have the option to pay slightly more and the company will buy Renewable Energy Certificates to cover 100% of my electricity usage.

 

I don't really understand how or why the Village or the electric company are doing this.

Guessing that they're getting lower rates by negotiating for rates as a group rather than as a series of individuals?

[StrangeSox]

Speaking of electricity, apparently I've been chosen to participate in an "electric aggregation" program, whatever the hell that means. The Village I live in has signed a one year deal with another electric company whose rates are approx. 20% less than ComEd. I also have the option to pay slightly more and the company will buy Renewable Energy Certificates to cover 100% of my electricity usage.

 

I don't really understand how or why the Village or the electric company are doing this.

A few years ago Illinois changed the rules and allowed multiple electricity resellers to come in instead of everyone having to buy from ComEd. Woodridge has done something similar. The cities/towns/villages are acting like single-payers to get a better rate through volume. Electricity is just another utility service like water or garbage collection.

[StrangeSox]

All right...well let me put it this way, the only thing I have a problem with is the actual turning the power off if that's done in an inappropriate way...because 90% of the time that'll go fine and then occasionally you'll kill someone. The "occasionally killing someone from heatstroke/freezing" is the part that the utility pulling the plug on people would need to proactively avoid. How they do that is up to them, but overall, I'm very much a fan of smart meters and wider deployment of them.

FWIW this has happened before with gas companies and turning off people's heat around here. IIRC four or five years ago a 90+ year old man froze to death in Indiana because his gas was turned off after several months of non-payment.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, if you have bad credit or a history of not paying your bill...

 

I think in the southwest and the south, where there is a lot of menial labor and a cash economy, as well as big swings in utility bills because of the oppressive summer heat and the mild winter temps, some lower income folks struggle with it.

 

I know gas companies allow customers around Chicago to spread out costs over the year instead of having huge bills in the winter and low bills in the summer. Do the electric companies not offer those types of plans?

[Balta1701]

FWIW this has happened before with gas companies and turning off people's heat around here. IIRC four or five years ago a 90+ year old man froze to death in Indiana because his gas was turned off after several months of non-payment.

Yeah, we had a thread on it here at ST. I'm sure you and I posted in it, that's what I was referencing.

[Balta1701]

A few years ago Illinois changed the rules and allowed multiple electricity resellers to come in instead of everyone having to buy from ComEd. Woodridge has done something similar. The cities/towns/villages are acting like single-payers to get a better rate through volume. Electricity is just another utility service like water or garbage collection.

(As long as Medicare doesn't do that. Because Freedom!)

[Jenksismyhero]

FWIW this has happened before with gas companies and turning off people's heat around here. IIRC four or five years ago a 90+ year old man froze to death in Indiana because his gas was turned off after several months of non-payment.

 

It happens, but it's rare. I'd guess more people actually get killed trying to reconnect the power after ComEd disconnects it (you'd be amazed the balls/stupidity people have around electrical equipment) than people dying because they have no power.

 

[iamshack]

I don't see any problem with it being an option, I just don't understand why someone would take it. Is it offered at a discount, like pre-paying for a rental car is?

 

Is there any buffer or warning, or do you just hit your quota and bam--the lights shut off?

Yes, we are required by law to provide at least three warnings.

 

I believe you would get a message when you've used half, 3/4, and then closing in on 100%...you could also get daily updates or up to the minute updates via cellphone or computer.

 

There is no discount, they pay the same rate as regular customers...I guess the discount is in the form of no deposits and no re-startup fees or whatever.

[StrangeSox]

Lower-income people might not have regular internet access, cellphones or smartphones (to reactivate if it goes out).

 

Like I said I don't see anything wrong or malicious about it. It's not an option I'd take but maybe it is advantageous for some.

[iamshack]

I know gas companies allow customers around Chicago to spread out costs over the year instead of having huge bills in the winter and low bills in the summer. Do the electric companies not offer those types of plans?

Yes, we offer basically every kind of plan there is. And we are not allowed to turn off the power of people using medical devices which require electricity...I think there are some other regulations in place which protect the elderly and children, but I am not exactly sure on that.

[iamshack]

Lower-income people might not have regular internet access, cellphones or smartphones (to reactivate if it goes out).

 

Like I said I don't see anything wrong or malicious about it. It's not an option I'd take but maybe it is advantageous for some.

That was my response as well...these people are going to be checking their usage with their prepaid cell phones or what?

 

I guess if I was a single mom and I had to decide between food and electricity sometimes, this might allow me to have more flexibility with my cash, rather than running my air conditioner all month, then getting a bill for $300, having to fork over all of it to keep the power on, and then not having money to buy groceries...

 

 

Apparently the data we have does suggest though that users that pay this way tend to use less energy than when paying traditionally.