The environment thread

[kapkomet]

Ah yes, the paranoia from the right begins. Fuel efficiency does not mean sacrificing safety. In fact, fewer gigantic, heavy SUV's on the road will probably decrease traffic deaths. So even if an increase in smaller lighter cars ends up increasing traffic deaths (which I think is not really likely, as lighter cars are better at avoiding accidents), you have the offset on the other side.

If people wanted these damn cars, they would be selling now.

[NorthSideSox72]

If people wanted these damn cars, they would be selling now.

They are.

 

Look, here is the deal. Because oil is a finite, non-renewable resource, you have two choices. You can allow the natural flow of business to deal with it, or you acn force the issue. Under about 99% of situations, I tend to want to leave business alone. But the exception is when there is some huge risk on the horizon that private business will not, or cannot, adjust to properly. I don't want to drive off that cliff. So, I am in favor of doing a lot to accelerate the already-occuring process of reducing oil consumption in this country.

 

Now, if you are going to do that, then it makes sense to use this approach. You know oil will go up in price, you require increased mileage, which will get us off oil faster and save money. The offset is of course the increased cost of vehicle production. Ultimately, we as consumers will spend this money anyway. The question you need to ask yourself is, where do you want that money to go? Overseas for oil, or domestically for at least some jobs here? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

 

[kapkomet]

There's other technology besides oil - that can and would support "big" cars, not these damn (stupid) (sic) cars.

 

True story - sort of off topic. We were sitting in a Walgreens parking lot the other day. A (stupid) car drives by, and Alissa starts talking about how she wanted to go roller skating.

[NorthSideSox72]

There's other technology besides oil - that can and would support "big" cars, not these damn (stupid) (sic) cars.

 

True story - sort of off topic. We were sitting in a Walgreens parking lot the other day. A (stupid) car drives by, and Alissa starts talking about how she wanted to go roller skating.

That particular car, the smart car, isn't a great example anyway. The mileage it gets is only a few clicks better than I get with a Ford Escape Hybrid. I think that car will continue to have a hard time selling, unless it gets far better mileage than regular cars.

 

And your first sentence makes my point - we need other technologies to grow up quickly.

 

[BigSqwert]

That particular car, the smart car, isn't a great example anyway. The mileage it gets is only a few clicks better than I get with a Ford Escape Hybrid. I think that car will continue to have a hard time selling, unless it gets far better mileage than regular cars.

 

And your first sentence makes my point - we need other technologies to grow up quickly.

Hard time selling? I read that there's a 1 year waiting list.

[Kyyle23]

that smart car is a golf cart with windows. It makes me nervous seeing those guys on the highway

[NorthSideSox72]

Hard time selling? I read that there's a 1 year waiting list.

Sorry, what I mean is, hard time becoming a major market player.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

that smart car is a golf cart with windows. It makes me nervous seeing those guys on the highway

Yeah, they really are only practical for being a city car. I wouldn't drive one on the highway.

 

[BigSqwert]

Sorry, what I mean is, hard time becoming a major market player.

It's definitely fills a niche market. Dense urban areas.

[kapkomet]

I'm not saying the technology is a bad thing, I'm talking specifically these roller skates on wheels, as my 3 year old daughter could equate the cars to.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm not saying the technology is a bad thing, I'm talking specifically these roller skates on wheels, as my 3 year old daughter could equate the cars to.

Yeah, I don't get that either - not in its current form. I saw them in Europe, where having a much smaller car, in the cities, made a lot of sense. But people didn't use them out in the country. And if you are going to have a car that small, you'd better give me like 80 mpg or something ridiculous - not 33/40 like they get, which you can more ore less match or beat in a lot of regular passenger cars.

 

[Balta1701]

If people wanted these damn cars, they would be selling now.

If we made it so that the market priced in the negative externalities of their use, then no one would ever buy a car that got less than 40 MPG.

[kapkomet]

If we made it so that the market priced in the negative externalities of their use, then no one would ever buy a car that got less than 40 MPG.

You may have not read all the way through - I clarified that I'm not talking about the technology, I'm talking about the floating turds rolling down the highway. (i.e. these little crackerbox cars).

 

[BigSqwert]

Off topic...

This is pretty neat.

[kapkomet]

Off topic...

This is pretty neat.

Optimus Prime of Packaging.

 

 

Nice.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Off topic...

This is pretty neat.

I like it - true conservationism at work.

 

[southsider2k5]

Hard time selling? I read that there's a 1 year waiting list.

 

Sales of Hybrid's are down about 2/3's.

[BigSqwert]

Sales of Hybrid's are down about 2/3's.

I was referring to the Smart Car. But I'm not sure if you just wanted to add this as a side note.

 

EDIT: Also, are there any cars that are actually selling really well right now?

Edited May 20, 2009 by BigSqwert

[NorthSideSox72]

Sales of Hybrid's are down about 2/3's.

Seems about right. Hybrids will, as long as they continue to be a small part of the market, have more volatile sales than other vehicles. Most vehicle types have dropped in sales by half, hybrids have dropped 32% more than that. When they were hot, their growth rate was off the charts.

 

Since gas prices are up the last month or two (since that article was written), and more people are opting for road trips this summer instead of the absurd hassle of flying, they'll pick up pace again.

 

[Balta1701]

Seems about right. Hybrids will, as long as they continue to be a small part of the market, have more volatile sales than other vehicles. Most vehicle types have dropped in sales by half, hybrids have dropped 32% more than that. When they were hot, their growth rate was off the charts.

 

Since gas prices are up the last month or two (since that article was written), and more people are opting for road trips this summer instead of the absurd hassle of flying, they'll pick up pace again.

It's also worth noting that there's been some significant overhaul in the Hybrid market in the last 2 months. The Honda Insight has premiered in the U.S., as has the new Prius, and people knew these were coming. If I was in the hybrid market 2 months ago I'd have waited to see what the Insight had to offer. In Japan, the Insight hybrid is already the first hybrid car ever to lead that nation in sales for a month.

 

Of course, I'm still hoping for a Chevy Volt.

[Balta1701]

One of the potential Republican stalling techniques on the Climate Change bill is to force the Dems to have to read the bill aloud in committee, all 900 pages, plus the 450+ amendments.

 

In response...Henry Waxman has hired a speed reader. I'm not joking.

 

[StrangeSox]

That's fantastic. Good move.

[Y2HH]

That's fantastic. Good move.

 

That's not fantastic, what it does show, however, is that politics is still business as usual. And I don't care which side of the idiot dividing fence a person stands on -- these bills being upwards of 800 pages is downright corrupt. They're 800 pages because 90% of the contents of the bill have almost nothing to do with the title of the bill itself. This is sneaky, common practice in Washington, always has been, and still is.

 

I call the fence dividing the dummy-craps from the republi-cant's the idiot dividing fence because anyone standing on either side of it is just that...an idiot. Until both sides comes to the realization that both parties have their merits AND flaws, we will continue to play this game, and it infuriates me.

 

Them doing stupid juvenile s*** like hiring a speed reader which is meant to be nothing more than a huge LOL to the Republicans shows they think this thing is a f***ing joke. And on the flip side, the Republicans asking them to read this aloud, after the hundreds upon hundreds of similar bills they pushed through without having to read them aloud is equally ignorant.

 

I'm tired of them (both sides) treating the country I live in like a joke for their own personal gain while their sheep followers watch on and take it all in as some form of f***ing entertainment.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Y2HH

[kapkomet]

That's not fantastic, what it does show, however, is that politics is still business as usual. And I don't care which side of the idiot dividing fence a person stands on -- these bills being upwards of 800 pages is downright corrupt. They're 800 pages because 90% of the contents of the bill have almost nothing to do with the title of the bill itself. This is sneaky, common practice in Washington, always has been, and still is.

 

I call the fence dividing the dummy-craps from the republi-cant's the idiot dividing fence because anyone standing on either side of it is just that...an idiot. Until both sides comes to the realization that both parties have their merits AND flaws, we will continue to play this game, and it infuriates me.

 

Them doing stupid juvenile s*** like hiring a speed reader which is meant to be nothing more than a huge LOL to the Republicans shows they think this thing is a f***ing joke. And on the flip side, the Republicans asking them to read this aloud, after the hundreds upon hundreds of similar bills they pushed through without having to read them aloud is equally ignorant.

 

I'm tired of them (both sides) treating the country I live in like a joke for their own personal gain while their sheep followers watch on and take it all in as some form of f***ing entertainment.

[NorthSideSox72]

That's not fantastic, what it does show, however, is that politics is still business as usual. And I don't care which side of the idiot dividing fence a person stands on -- these bills being upwards of 800 pages is downright corrupt. They're 800 pages because 90% of the contents of the bill have almost nothing to do with the title of the bill itself. This is sneaky, common practice in Washington, always has been, and still is.

 

I call the fence dividing the dummy-craps from the republi-cant's the idiot dividing fence because anyone standing on either side of it is just that...an idiot. Until both sides comes to the realization that both parties have their merits AND flaws, we will continue to play this game, and it infuriates me.

 

Them doing stupid juvenile s*** like hiring a speed reader which is meant to be nothing more than a huge LOL to the Republicans shows they think this thing is a f***ing joke. And on the flip side, the Republicans asking them to read this aloud, after the hundreds upon hundreds of similar bills they pushed through without having to read them aloud is equally ignorant.

 

I'm tired of them (both sides) treating the country I live in like a joke for their own personal gain while their sheep followers watch on and take it all in as some form of f***ing entertainment.

Good post, sir.