The environment thread

[YASNY]

Yeah I can't imagine why people would get the idea that some people would exploit the global warming debate for their own gains and profits...

 

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash6.htm

 

Imagine that!

[NorthSideSox72]

Yeah I can't imagine why people would get the idea that some people would exploit the global warming debate for their own gains and profits...

 

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash6.htm

For the record, I am not at all surprised that a media organization would use a disaster to further its agenda. That's what they all do. Why all the sarcasm? Has anyone ever said that CNN or other MSM outlets wouldn't do this at every chance they could?

 

[mr_genius]

They also need to somehow tie the GW Bush regime to this

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

 

C'mon CNN, you can do it. Just be creative.

[NorthSideSox72]

So, sure enough, as predicted via memo here on Soxtalk recently... CNN publishes an article connecting the fires out west to CCGW.

 

Now, there is one thing in there that does make sense - if the fire season is longer, because spring comes earlier and first frost later... then yes, I'd say that's a good contributing factor to more fires. And since the season HAS been longer since the 80's more often than not, there have been more fires. I wouldn't really debate that.

 

But, I have to call B.S. on the idea that it is necessarily caused by CCGW. One could say that, if CCGW results in longer fire seasons long term (like for many decades), then obviously there is a causation there. But since the spike in fires is only since the 80's, I think there are way, way, way too many polluting factors (in the statistical sense, not actual pollution) there to establish a link. I'd call that a big stetch.

 

[southsideirish71]

So, sure enough, as predicted via memo here on Soxtalk recently... CNN publishes an article connecting the fires out west to CCGW.

 

Now, there is one thing in there that does make sense - if the fire season is longer, because spring comes earlier and first frost later... then yes, I'd say that's a good contributing factor to more fires. And since the season HAS been longer since the 80's more often than not, there have been more fires. I wouldn't really debate that.

 

But, I have to call B.S. on the idea that it is necessarily caused by CCGW. One could say that, if CCGW results in longer fire seasons long term (like for many decades), then obviously there is a causation there. But since the spike in fires is only since the 80's, I think there are way, way, way too many polluting factors (in the statistical sense, not actual pollution) there to establish a link. I'd call that a big stetch.

 

 

Its great when they can't get it straight.

 

Harry Reid, the fires are from global warming. Then he states that he didnt say that, in the same interview. LOL

Edited October 25, 2007 by southsideirish71

[FlaSoxxJim]

Scientists denounce White House censoring.

 

Scientists and public and environmental health experts today “overwhelmingly denounced” the White House’s editing of CDC director Dr. Julie Gerberding’s congressional testimony on global warming. They called the edits “frustrating,” “terrible” and “appalling,” and acknowledged that the White House is denying widely accepted scientific conclusions:

 

“What was removed was an uncontroversial report of what is currently known and believed about the fact of climate change, its health effects and its likely impacts on the United States.” — Dale Jamieson, director of environmental studies at New York University

 

“All of these [topics] are routinely mentioned in public health coursework across the nation. Each can be found in the pages of leading journals, such as Science and Nature. If anything, they understate the problem.” — Dr. Alan Ducatman, a professor of community medicine at the West Virginia University School of Medicine

 

“We talk of the politicization of science. In the politicization of this topic — the science wasn’t changed, it was deleted.” — Dr. Linda Rosenstock, dean of the UCLA School of Public Health

 

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/GlobalHea...5766&page=1

[BigSqwert]

New plastic could reduce greenhouse gases

 

Updated: 10:29 a.m. CT Oct 24, 2007

 

A plastic tweaked to mimic cellular membranes can separate carbon dioxide from natural gas and could help reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, scientists say.

 

The technology, detailed in the Oct. 12 issue of the journal Science, might also be modified to isolate natural gas from decomposing garbage or filter impurities from water, the researchers say.

 

Like a selective sponge, the new plastic allows carbon dioxide or other small molecules to pass through its hourglass-shaped pores but blocks the passage of methane, the primary molecule in natural gas.

 

Full article

[BigSqwert]

This one is about more than climate change...

 

U.N.: World often 'slow' to help environment

'Remarkable lack of urgency' on climate change, report adds

 

Updated: 11:15 a.m. CT Oct 25, 2007

 

LONDON - The international community must respond more quickly to climate change, species extinction, dwindling supplies of fresh water and other threats to the planet, the U.N. Environment Program warned Thursday.

 

The U.N. agency said in a report that nations still fail to recognize the seriousness of environmental threats to the planet.

 

Prepared by 390 experts over five years, the report reviews progress made since a similar one in 1987.

 

The global response in the two decades since "has in some cases been courageous and inspiring," UNEP Executive Director Achim Steiner said before the report's release in London.

 

"But all too often it has been slow and at a pace and scale that fails to respond to or recognize the magnitude of the challenges facing the people and the environment of the planet."

 

Climate change is a global priority that demands political leadership, but there has been "a remarkable lack of urgency" in the response, which the report characterized as "woefully inadequate."

 

The report outlined other global problems, including declining fish stocks and the loss of fertile land through degradation.

 

Human activity has reached an unsustainable level, outstripping available resources, the report said.

 

But it also found progress in some areas since the 1987 report.

 

"Over the past 20 years, the international community has cut, by 95 percent, the production of ozone-layer damaging chemicals," Steiner said. There has also been the creation of "a greenhouse-gas emission reduction treaty along with innovative carbon trading and carbon offset markets."

 

The British branch of environmental group Friends of the Earth welcomed the report, calling it an "important call for global political leadership in a fast degrading world."

 

The group's campaign director, Mark Childs, said "it is now clearer than ever that we need concerted international political action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and halt the loss of wildlife and ecosystems."

 

The full report is online at www.unep.org/geo/geo4/media.

[mr_genius]

Its great when they can't get it straight.

 

Harry Reid, the fires are from global warming. Then he states that he didnt say that, in the same interview. LOL

 

 

[rockren]

 

You didn't honestly keep a straight face when you typed that, did you?

 

I hate to step into these threads because no one really wins these arguments, which are ALL subjective.

 

But when you have to poke fun at someone for making a statement....maybe you're the one being laughed at?

[southsider2k5]

2007 was the slowest years for tropical cyclone activity in the last 30 years.

 

There are a bunch more charts and graphs at the link.

http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/~maue/tropical/

 

 

Unless a dramatic and perhaps historical flurry of activity occurs in the next 9 weeks, 2007 will rank as a historically inactive TC year for the Northern Hemisphere as a whole. During the past 30 years, only 1977, 1981, and 1983 have had less activity to date (January-TODAY, Accumulated Cyclone Energy). However, the year is not over...

2007 lowest September activity on record since 1977

 

2006 and 2007 lowest October activity on record since 1976 and 1977

 

For the period of June 1 - TODAY, only 1977 has experienced LESS tropical cyclone activity than 2007.

There are currently two worldwide tropical cyclones: Tropical Storm Noel and Unnamed Arabian Sea TS...

 

On average to date (1970-2006), the Eastern Pacific season is 97% completed, Western Pacific 82%, North Atlantic 93% and overall Northern Hemisphere 87%.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

dang you beat me by like 4 minutes.

[NorthSideSox72]

And just like the people who pick an active hurricane year and shout "global warming!", this is an utterly useless argument for or against CCGW.

 

CCGW may cause more hurricanes, but we won't know it until there have been a few decades' worth of data to analyze. I mean, unless we suddenly start getting 40 or 50 named storms a year, then maybe it will take just a few years. But barring that, you cannot look at something with such a small N value as hurricanes in a given year, and take anything from it.

 

[kapkomet]

And just like the people who pick an active hurricane year and shout "global warming!", this is an utterly useless argument for or against CCGW.

 

CCGW may cause more hurricanes, but we won't know it until there have been a few decades' worth of data to analyze. I mean, unless we suddenly start getting 40 or 50 named storms a year, then maybe it will take just a few years. But barring that, you cannot look at something with such a small N value as hurricanes in a given year, and take anything from it.

So exactly why did we get the barrage of GLOBAL WARMING stories after the 2005 hurricane season? It seems to me the loudness factor of that bit of data was just a wee bit higher on the decibel level then the lack of hurricanes the last two years. I wonder why that is?

 

[southsideirish71]

And just like the people who pick an active hurricane year and shout "global warming!", this is an utterly useless argument for or against CCGW.

 

CCGW may cause more hurricanes, but we won't know it until there have been a few decades' worth of data to analyze. I mean, unless we suddenly start getting 40 or 50 named storms a year, then maybe it will take just a few years. But barring that, you cannot look at something with such a small N value as hurricanes in a given year, and take anything from it.

 

Tell the Goracle that.

 

Katrina, Global Warming

[Balta1701]

Didn't someone post an anti-Gore screed by the person who actually makes the predictions that get publicized each year a couple days ago?

[NorthSideSox72]

So exactly why did we get the barrage of GLOBAL WARMING stories after the 2005 hurricane season? It seems to me the loudness factor of that bit of data was just a wee bit higher on the decibel level then the lack of hurricanes the last two years. I wonder why that is?

Because it was a sensational thing. Its the media. What did you expect?

 

I am not the media.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Tell the Goracle that.

 

Katrina, Global Warming

I am also not Al Gore. But, here is his quote on Katrina from that speech...

 

We're told this is not a time to hold our national government accountable because there are more important matters that confront us. This is not an either/or choice. They are linked together. As our nation belatedly finds effective ways to help those who have been so hard hit by Hurricane Katrina, it is important that we learn the right lessons of what has happened, lest we are spoon-fed the wrong lessons from what happened. If we do not absorb the right lessons, we are, in the historian's phrase, doomed to repeat the mistakes that have already been made. All of us know that our nation - all of us, the United States of America - failed the people of New Orleans and the gulf coast when this hurricane was approaching them, and when it struck. When the corpses of American citizens are floating in toxic floodwaters five days after a hurricane strikes, it is time not only to respond directly to the victims of the catastrophe but to hold the processes of our nation accountable, and the leaders of our nation accountable, for the failures that have taken place.

 

And this...

 

There are scientific warnings now of another onrushing catastrophe. We were warned of an imminent attack by Al Qaeda; we didn't respond. We were warned the levees would break in New Orleans; we didn't respond. Now, the scientific community is warning us that the average hurricane will continue to get stronger because of global warming. A scientist at MIT has published a study well before this tragedy showing that since the 1970s, hurricanes in both the Atlantic and the Pacific have increased in duration, and in intensity, by about 50 %. The newscasters told us after Hurricane Katrina went over the southern tip of Florida that there was a particular danger for the Gulf Coast of the hurricanes becoming much stronger because it was passing over unusually warm waters in the gulf. The waters in the gulf have been unusually warm. The oceans generally have been getting warmer. And the pattern is exactly consistent with what scientists have predicted for twenty years. Two thousand scientists, in a hundred countries, engaged in the most elaborate, well organized scientific collaboration in the history of humankind, have produced long-since a consensus that we will face a string of terrible catastrophes unless we act to prepare ourselves and deal with the underlying causes of global warming. [applause] It is important to learn the lessons of what happens when scientific evidence and clear authoritative warnings are ignored in order to induce our leaders not to do it again and not to ignore the scientists again and not to leave us unprotected in the face of those threats that are facing us right now.

 

In the first section, he makes no connection whatsoever between Katrina and CCGW. In fact, he is talking about the failed disaster response. In the second, he talks about a study of hurricane frequency since the 1970's - a much better attempt at real analysis over an appropriate time span. He then cites Katrina's path being dictated by ocean warmth, which is true. So, again, he says nothing about CCGW being responsible for Katrina. What he says, rightly I believe, is that warmer oceans seem to dictate more frequent and stronger hurricanes.

 

Unless there is some other text in the article I am missing referring to Katrina? If there is, please do point it out.

 

[BigSqwert]

Recycler is accused of polluting

Suburb goes after contractor's storage of mercury-filled bulbs

 

By Ray Gibson | Tribune staff reporter

October 29, 2007

 

A company that won City of Chicago contracts and was told it would receive state grants to recycle fluorescent light bulbs instead left thousands of the mercury-laden lamps inside a Riverdale warehouse, and officials there contend that the building has now become a hazardous-waste site.

 

Last week, the village began notifying federal and state environmental officials that it will seek to file a federal lawsuit over the alleged illegal storage of the light bulbs, which sit in the warehouse by the thousands and were never recycled.

 

Inspectors discovered significant levels of poisonous mercury from the light bulbs and other hazardous waste during two inspections of the building in recent weeks, said Michael Blazer, a village attorney who filed the notices.

 

Full article

[mr_genius]

So exactly why did we get the barrage of GLOBAL WARMING stories after the 2005 hurricane season? It seems to me the loudness factor of that bit of data was just a wee bit higher on the decibel level then the lack of hurricanes the last two years. I wonder why that is?

 

because they were busy working on their "forest fires are a result of global warming" stories. that and they're probably getting an early start on putting together their forged documents to go after Giuliani with

[BigSqwert]

because they were busy working on their "forest fires are a result of global warming" stories. that and they're probably getting an early start on putting together their forged documents to go after Giuliani with

Finding dirt on Giuliani does not require forging anything. He has plenty of dirt on him from his own doing.

[mr_genius]

Finding dirt on Giuliani does not require forging anything. He has plenty of dirt on him from his own doing.

 

pfft, all the candidates do. it will just be an issue of the MSM using restraint when reporting. they will definitely be pushing for Clinton, but if they're smart they won't go overboard.

[kapkomet]

pfft, all the candidates do. it will just be an issue of the MSM using restraint when reporting. they will definitely be pushing for Clinton, but if they're smart they won't go overboard.

They won't be able to help themselves - they have an orgasm every time they think of "Hillary Clinton - President".

[Texsox]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/30/...in3428882.shtml

 

Interesting story on leaving products on "stand by"

[BigSqwert]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/30/...in3428882.shtml

 

Interesting story on leaving products on "stand by"

I have become notorious for unplugging things when not in use.