The environment thread

[EvilMonkey]

Not going back thru the gazillion pages, so if any of these posted already, sorry.

 

Seems Obama top recipient of BP campaign donations.

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/05/01

The top recipient of BP-related donations during the 2008 cycle was President Barack Obama himself, who collected $71,000.

 

In all fairness, Obama hasn't caught up to these 5 yet.

In addition, five of the all-time top 10 recipients of BP money in the House of Representatives sit on the House Energy Committee: John D. Dingell (D-Mich.) Joe Barton (R-Tex.), Ralph M. Hall (R-Tex.), Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) and Fred Upton, (R-Mich.).

 

The OBAMA administration exempted the BP gulf drilling operations from a detailed environmental impact analysis last year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0050404118.html

The decision by the department's Minerals Management Service (MMS) to give BP's lease at Deepwater Horizon a "categorical exclusion" from the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) on April 6, 2009 -- and BP's lobbying efforts just 11 days before the explosion to expand those exemptions -- show that neither federal regulators nor the company anticipated an accident of the scale of the one unfolding in the gulf.

 

Seems like that happened under Obama's watch, not Bush. The explosion was an accident, not because of deregulations. the resultant spills were because of safety items not working, things that prehaps should have been caught in an inspection, that never happened during Obama's watch. While oil flowed, Obama played golf. Time to stop the leak, clean it up, enforce the regulations you have and stop blaming Bush.

[Balta1701]

The explosion was an accident, not because of deregulations. the resultant spills were because of safety items not working, things that prehaps should have been caught in an inspection, that never happened during Obama's watch. While oil flowed, Obama played golf. Time to stop the leak, clean it up, enforce the regulations you have and stop blaming Bush.

But you just demonstrated that lack of regulation you said wasn't at fault!

[StrangeSox]

Which is why I had my post earlier about the conundrum we have:

 

Deregulation clearly does not work.

Regulation doesn't work when its not effectively enforced.

 

What is the public left to do?

[Balta1701]

What is the public left to do?

Bathe in oil. It's fun.

[EvilMonkey]

But you just demonstrated that lack of regulation you said wasn't at fault!

I said lack of regulations didnt cause the explosion. Lack of enforcement of the current regulations (you surely can't be arguing that there are NONE) caused the oversight of the non-working systems, which happened under a Democratic admin, not Bush.

[EvilMonkey]

Which is why I had my post earlier about the conundrum we have:

 

Deregulation clearly does not work.

Regulation doesn't work when its not effectively enforced.

 

What is the public left to do?

Deregulation doesn't mean the removal of ALL regulations. You can't accurately tell if the ones in place work because they are not properly enforcing them. Enforce the ones you have first, THEN you can assess if you need more. But you can't just say the current rules don't work because we aren't enforcing them.

[Balta1701]

Deregulation doesn't mean the removal of ALL regulations. You can't accurately tell if the ones in place work because they are not properly enforcing them. Enforce the ones you have first, THEN you can assess if you need more. But you can't just say the current rules don't work because we aren't enforcing them.

In either case...BP and the people supporting offshore drilling (which, as the President said, is now perfectly safe) have no interest in regulation. They have no interest in meeting the required environmental statements right now, they have no interest in new regulations like the up-to-date blowout preventers that the rest of the world uses which the 2001 energy task force decided were unnecessary.

 

Either one could have done it. Both would have been better. If you proposed new regulations, BP would have lobbied against them. If you tried to enforce the current regulations, BP would lobby against it. We're seeing EXACTLY that as the labor department tries to enforce rules that are already on the books about workplace safety and the Chamber of Commerce is furious and loading up to elect Republicans so that doesn't happen.

[EvilMonkey]

In either case...BP and the people supporting offshore drilling (which, as the President said, is now perfectly safe) have no interest in regulation. They have no interest in meeting the required environmental statements right now, they have no interest in new regulations like the up-to-date blowout preventers that the rest of the world uses which the 2001 energy task force decided were unnecessary.

 

Either one could have done it. Both would have been better. If you proposed new regulations, BP would have lobbied against them. If you tried to enforce the current regulations, BP would lobby against it. We're seeing EXACTLY that as the labor department tries to enforce rules that are already on the books about workplace safety and the Chamber of Commerce is furious and loading up to elect Republicans so that doesn't happen.

So because they would lobby against it if you DID enforce regulations that do exist, you shouldn't enforce them at all? That sure sounds like what you are saying. Why try to enforce them since they wil fight it anyway. Enforce what you have first. Then, if that doesn't work, go on to plan B. And did you conveniently miss the point where Obama was BP's biggest recipient the last few years? How's that working out for him and BP? Seems like BP got excused from a lot of the existing rules while under Obama';s watch, rules which just may have prevented this. Sounds like Freddie and Fanny but with oil instead of junk mortgages.

 

On a different note, anyone here ever try to type on a netbook after typing on a regular laptop or keyboard? My typing is bad enough, these posts take 3x as long having to go back and fix all the red-lined words when I use this little thing.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Man oh man, 60 minutes just absolutely ripped apart BP and Transocean.

 

The blowout preventer has a large rubber gasket that is a key part of it. a month before the explosion, there was an accident that damaged the gasket. One of their workers reported rubber shards coming back up in the drilling mud. Those shards were ignored.

 

One of the control boxes on the blowout preventer was having issues the whole month, that should have had the company shut down drilling and repair it. They chose not to.

 

Safety doors on the rig that were supposed to contain explosions were ripped off their hinges by explosions.

 

The day of the explosion, BP decided to cut corners and pull back on the drilling mud pressure in the well to make it faster and more cost-effective to access the oil.

 

They had on a whistleblower discussing a different BP platform in the gulf, and he was reporting, based on documentation, that 95% of the plans for that rig were inappropriately handled and he was fired for trying to make an issue of it.

 

If a company is cutting corners and covering it up and it is standard operating procedure...then, yeah.

[StrangeSox]

Which is why the "Accident" or "act of god" excuses don't stand up to a trivial amount of scrutiny. This should be criminal negligence.

[kapkomet]

Too bad 60 minutes couldn't do some real investigative journalism on say, the health care boondoggle, as well.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Main power to the front deflector shields!

Edited May 17, 2010 by StrangeSox

[EvilMonkey]

Man oh man, 60 minutes just absolutely ripped apart BP and Transocean.

 

The blowout preventer has a large rubber gasket that is a key part of it. a month before the explosion, there was an accident that damaged the gasket. One of their workers reported rubber shards coming back up in the drilling mud. Those shards were ignored.

 

One of the control boxes on the blowout preventer was having issues the whole month, that should have had the company shut down drilling and repair it. They chose not to.

 

Safety doors on the rig that were supposed to contain explosions were ripped off their hinges by explosions.

 

The day of the explosion, BP decided to cut corners and pull back on the drilling mud pressure in the well to make it faster and more cost-effective to access the oil.

 

They had on a whistleblower discussing a different BP platform in the gulf, and he was reporting, based on documentation, that 95% of the plans for that rig were inappropriately handled and he was fired for trying to make an issue of it.

 

If a company is cutting corners and covering it up and it is standard operating procedure...then, yeah.

So they had rules and procedures in place, they weren't followed and were blatantly ignored, so the answer is to create even more rules for them to ignore and not follow!

 

if the negligence parts are true, I agree, time for some massive criminal prosecution to occur. (see, it does happen once in a while)

 

[lostfan]

On a different note, anyone here ever try to type on a netbook after typing on a regular laptop or keyboard? My typing is bad enough, these posts take 3x as long having to go back and fix all the red-lined words when I use this little thing.

Yes

[Balta1701]

if the negligence parts are true, I agree, time for some massive criminal prosecution to occur. (see, it does happen once in a while)

If course...let's also remember that the punitive damages BP could face over that criminal negligence is limited to $75 million.

[Balta1701]

This guy is probably sad the spill didn't happen 2 years ago. He could have walked away with a medal.

The top Interior Department official who oversees offshore oil and gas drilling for the Minerals Management Service will retire on May 31, The Washington Post has learned.

 

Chris Oynes, who oversaw oil and gas leasing in the Gulf of Mexico for 12 years before being promoted in 2007 to associate director for offshore energy and minerals management, informed colleagues in an e-mail that he will step down. He has come under fire from former MMS officials for being too close to the industry he regulated.

[Balta1701]

Oil is washing up in Key West. That means it's gotten into the Gulf Stream, and it's going to go the whole way round Florida.

 

Hope you took your Florida vacations already, you won't be wanting to take another.

[BigSqwert]

Oil is washing up in Key West. That means it's gotten into the Gulf Stream, and it's going to go the whole way round Florida.

 

Hope you took your Florida vacations already, you won't be wanting to take another.

 

Yay. I'll be there next week screaming "where's the oil?!" like that idiot on Fox.

[Balta1701]

Yay. I'll be there next week screaming "where's the oil?!" like that idiot on Fox.

Now's probably your best time to go, it'll take a couple months before it really starts finding everywhere it's going to hit, and maybe a year or two before the full ecological hit is on.

 

I wouldn't recommend scuba diving any more though.

[StrangeSox]

Yay. I'll be there next week screaming "where's the oil?!" like that idiot on Fox.

 

Link?

 

edit: Sounds like the idiots with videos of plants growing better in CO2-rich environments and therefore more CO2 is actually good for everyone!

Edited May 18, 2010 by StrangeSox

[BigSqwert]

Link?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/b...i_n_578803.html

[StrangeSox]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/b...i_n_578803.html

Wow. I would have guessed one of the F&F retards or just some random person-on-the-street, not Brit Hume.

 

Glad they've got their next narrative lined up, though. It's not even as bad as natural seepage! It's not even that bad at all! Identical in style to the volcanoes-CO2 canard.

 

[Chisoxfn]

Man oh man, 60 minutes just absolutely ripped apart BP and Transocean.

 

The blowout preventer has a large rubber gasket that is a key part of it. a month before the explosion, there was an accident that damaged the gasket. One of their workers reported rubber shards coming back up in the drilling mud. Those shards were ignored.

 

One of the control boxes on the blowout preventer was having issues the whole month, that should have had the company shut down drilling and repair it. They chose not to.

 

Safety doors on the rig that were supposed to contain explosions were ripped off their hinges by explosions.

 

The day of the explosion, BP decided to cut corners and pull back on the drilling mud pressure in the well to make it faster and more cost-effective to access the oil.

 

They had on a whistleblower discussing a different BP platform in the gulf, and he was reporting, based on documentation, that 95% of the plans for that rig were inappropriately handled and he was fired for trying to make an issue of it.

 

If a company is cutting corners and covering it up and it is standard operating procedure...then, yeah.

Clearly BP didn't perform the necessary actions based upon the tests and data they have. That is just ignorance and no amount of controls, etc will prevent something like that, unfortunately.

[Balta1701]

Clearly BP didn't perform the necessary actions based upon the tests and data they have. That is just ignorance and no amount of controls, etc will prevent something like that, unfortunately.

But you know what? It certainly sounded like standard operating procedure for them.

[Chisoxfn]

But you know what? It certainly sounded like standard operating procedure for them.

I don't know how you can state that it is just standard operating procedure. They have tons of drilling stations and I'm sure they have corporate policies regarding safety and standard that they have to comply with and in this instance my guess is they just ignored some of the issues or just never thought it was near as big of a deal.

 

Its sad that it happened, but unfortunately no amount of controls will always prevent everything from happening.