The environment thread

[Balta1701]

I don't know how you can state that it is just standard operating procedure. They have tons of drilling stations and I'm sure they have corporate policies regarding safety and standard that they have to comply with and in this instance my guess is they just ignored some of the issues or just never thought it was near as big of a deal.

 

Its sad that it happened, but unfortunately no amount of controls will always prevent everything from happening.

Based on their discussions in that episode, and, if I'm ever allowed to allude to stuff I've heard privately, it sounds like "not thinking things were a big deal" is a pretty darn common problem for a lot of oil companies, BP in particular. Every hole they drill costs so much money that every day they have to wait to make sure things are safe costs them tens of millions of dollars.

 

Which is why active drilling safety regulations might be nice. Because, especially when you limit their liability to $75 million in the event of an accident, there are huge rewards for cutting corners.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't know how you can state that it is just standard operating procedure. They have tons of drilling stations and I'm sure they have corporate policies regarding safety and standard that they have to comply with and in this instance my guess is they just ignored some of the issues or just never thought it was near as big of a deal.

 

Its sad that it happened, but unfortunately no amount of controls will always prevent everything from happening.

Which is a damn good argument for getting away from oil and on to non-toxic renewable technologies (solar, wind, geo, tidal, hydro, bio) as soon as humanly possible.

 

[kapkomet]

Which is a damn good argument for getting away from oil and on to non-toxic renewable technologies (solar, wind, geo, tidal, hydro, bio) as soon as humanly possible.

 

 

*yawn*

[Y2HH]

Which is a damn good argument for getting away from oil and on to non-toxic renewable technologies (solar, wind, geo, tidal, hydro, bio) as soon as humanly possible.

 

If such a viable tech existed for my car, I'd probably already have it, but the alternatives that currently exist are just as expensive (if not more) than gasoline, and far less "real world" ready.

 

I have no need of a car that can only drive 50 miles and then need to be plugged in for hours to recharge...just as I have no need of a car that has almost no room in it. I go on many camping/road trips throughout the year, and I need space, and I need the ability to go where normal cars fear -- off road. For this, I use my Jeep -- and there is no viable alternative to a gasoline Jeep for this, as of yet.

 

I hope they invent something, someday, but even then...we're talking 10+ years before it's ready in a viable manner.

 

Sadly, if the lure of money for such patients and inventions isn't enough to get such things created, an oil spill won't be, either.

[lostfan]

He said "as soon as possible," he didn't say "now."

[NorthSideSox72]

He said "as soon as possible," he didn't say "now."

Never mind that, they're on a roll.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

*yawn*

Seriously, why bother posting?

 

Did you see me making some straw man argument? Did you see me regurgitating some talking point? No. You saw me simply point out one factor to consider when looking at the future in energy.

 

[StrangeSox]

Seriously, why bother posting?

 

Did you see me making some straw man argument? Did you see me regurgitating some talking point? No. You saw me simply point out one factor to consider when looking at the future in energy.

So, by adding a post to this thread acknowledging these guidelines, you are stating the following...

 

1. I will not insult other posters, directly or indirectly

2. I will not threaten anyone, even in jest

3. I will not bait people or push them over the line (a.k.a. pushing their buttons)

4. I will not post statements for the purpose of angering others

5. I will not prod posters repeatedly on a subject or chase them across topics to make a point

6. I will try to make posts that actually add to the discussion at hand

 

Please post your acknowledgements, and then enjoy posting in the Buster.

Edited May 19, 2010 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

He said "as soon as possible," he didn't say "now."

 

And I understand that -- but that was a repost of a repost of a repost...and it's old now. We get it already, all of us get it, we want an alternative means of energy, it's been said ad nauseam around here for months on end and nothings changed it...we're still waiting, we're still wanting...and it's still not here.

 

It's yet another post that does nothing but fuel the fire which generates responses exactly like he got.

 

Kap's absolutely right in this regard -- yet another f***ing post which invokes the tired keywords "wind, solar, etc.", where any of these technologies in regard to gas powered automobiles (the biggest reason big oil still exists), are DECADES away from reality.

 

So in that regard...

 

*yawn*

 

I'd like cancer cured while we're at it, since we're wishing for things.

 

The only way the auto industry changes -- and it will change, but only in response to this -- if when gasoline costs 10+$ per gallon. As long as they keep it under 5$, it's not changing...because people don't really care about anything other than their own convenience.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

I have no need of a car that can only drive 50 miles and then need to be plugged in for hours to recharge...just as I have no need of a car that has almost no room in it. I go on many camping/road trips throughout the year, and I need space, and I need the ability to go where normal cars fear -- off road. For this, I use my Jeep -- and there is no viable alternative to a gasoline Jeep for this, as of yet.

 

I hope they invent something, someday, but even then...we're talking 10+ years before it's ready in a viable manner.

Considering that China already has those vehicles on the market in car form and the U.S. will by the end of the year, and once those take off it'll only be a year or two before the SUV versions start hitting for you...stop yawning.

 

Hell, we'd be at the point you wanted already if we'd spent the last 5 years putting as much money into R&D as the chinese.

[Balta1701]

The only way the auto industry changes -- and it will change, but only in response to this -- if when gasoline costs 10+$ per gallon. As long as they keep it under 5$, it's not changing...because people don't really care about anything other than their own convenience.

There was a huge impact on driving habits when gas prices spiked in 2008, and that was only in the $3-$4 a gallon range.

[southsider2k5]

Considering that China already has those vehicles on the market in car form and the U.S. will by the end of the year, and once those take off it'll only be a year or two before the SUV versions start hitting for you...stop yawning.

 

Hell, we'd be at the point you wanted already if we'd spent the last 5 years putting as much money into R&D as the chinese.

 

Eh, maybe if our auto industry paid what the Chinese one paid, we could have done that much R&D.

[Balta1701]

Eh, maybe if our auto industry paid what the Chinese one paid, we could have done that much R&D.

Nice to see you finally admitting it and endorsing paying slave-labor level wages. The future of the American Worker according to Republicans? $2.50 an hour. You want a bathroom break? Here, let me shoot you in your bladder, that will drain it automatically.

[Y2HH]

Considering that China already has those vehicles on the market in car form and the U.S. will by the end of the year, and once those take off it'll only be a year or two before the SUV versions start hitting for you...stop yawning.

 

Hell, we'd be at the point you wanted already if we'd spent the last 5 years putting as much money into R&D as the chinese.

 

WTF cars are you even talking about? Please elaborate...

[Y2HH]

Eh, maybe if our auto industry paid what the Chinese one paid, we could have done that much R&D.

 

I need to see these "vehicles" so I can laugh at them...they're nothing like what I'm even describing I bet.

 

And btw, China is soon to be the #1 consumer of OIL...so for all this fabled technology they have (at least, according to you), they seem to also love that oil!

Edited May 19, 2010 by Y2HH

[Y2HH]

There was a huge impact on driving habits when gas prices spiked in 2008, and that was only in the $3-$4 a gallon range.

 

There was a temporary small impact...I wouldn't call it huge. I still drove, the expressways ACROSS AMERICA were still jammed...so um, just no.

[Y2HH]

Nice to see you finally admitting it and endorsing paying slave-labor level wages. The future of the American Worker according to Republicans? $2.50 an hour. You want a bathroom break? Here, let me shoot you in your bladder, that will drain it automatically.

 

I think that was his point -- in NOT endorsing it.

[Balta1701]

WTF cars are you even talking about? Please elaborate...

The Chevy Volt, first production plug-in hybrid will be out later this year in the U.S. Runs 40 miles on electric power, which, in most markets, will cost you the equivalent of $.80/a gallon and which produces vastly less CO2 than the inefficient internal combustion engine. Then, once you drain the initial batteries down to a certain evel, it switches over to a normal gasoline engine to allow you to run a full day trip if you need that distance.

 

The Chinese got their version to the market 2 years before the U.S.

 

 

Yes, it's just a passenger vehicle and you said you needed an SUV. I have no problem with that; the distance on the battery is all about weight. If you double the weight, perhaps the battery only lasts you 20 miles instead of 40.

 

People have done the math on this actually. ON average, if you can give most American drivers 40 miles on battery power, you eliminate 90% of American's need for oil and you can do all of that off of the electric grid. If you give them about 20 miles, you eliminate about 80%, because most trips to work, the store, etc., are less than 10 miles and a lot of the gasoline is wasted while sitting in traffic or stopping and going. And, you can power it with wind power all you want, because wind keeps blowing at night.

[Y2HH]

The Chevy Volt, first production plug-in hybrid will be out later this year in the U.S. Runs 40 miles on electric power, which, in most markets, will cost you the equivalent of $.80/a gallon and which produces vastly less CO2 than the inefficient internal combustion engine. Then, once you drain the initial batteries down to a certain evel, it switches over to a normal gasoline engine to allow you to run a full day trip if you need that distance.

 

The Chinese got their version to the market 2 years before the U.S.

 

 

Yes, it's just a passenger vehicle and you said you needed an SUV. I have no problem with that; the distance on the battery is all about weight. If you double the weight, perhaps the battery only lasts you 20 miles instead of 40.

 

People have done the math on this actually. ON average, if you can give most American drivers 40 miles on battery power, you eliminate 90% of American's need for oil and you can do all of that off of the electric grid. If you give them about 20 miles, you eliminate about 80%, because most trips to work, the store, etc., are less than 10 miles and a lot of the gasoline is wasted while sitting in traffic or stopping and going. And, you can power it with wind power all you want, because wind keeps blowing at night.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about NOT needing.

 

These are garbage. They don't go far enough...they take too long to recharge...and they don't have enough HP or torque.

 

Move along now.

[Balta1701]

This is exactly what I'm talking about NOT needing.

 

These are garbage. They don't go far enough...they take too long to recharge...and they don't have enough HP or torque.

 

Move along now.

Did you even read my post?

Then, once you drain the initial batteries down to a certain evel, it switches over to a normal gasoline engine to allow you to run a full day trip if you need that distance.

So, "Don't go far enough" = can't go to the moon.

[Y2HH]

Did you even read my post?

 

Yes, I did.

[Y2HH]

If this engine is electric, runs only 50 miles, dies out -- then switches to conventional gasoline -- this is NOT an alternative technology at all.

 

It's a crappy stopgap, nothing more.

 

It's another version of a hybrid...it's NOT the answer.

 

Let's stop talking about nickle and diming our way with expensive crappy cars like this one -- we want alternative means that WORKS. How about an electric car that recharges in 5 minutes and can drive 300+ miles on a single charge that has 300HP and 300FPT, able to carry loads upwards of 2500+lbs?! THAT'S a viable alternative...

 

This?!

 

Give me a break.

 

Like I said in my original post -- the reality is that this is 10+ years off still...so please, don't respond with some retarded little electric car that can carry 90 lbs and drive 50 miles before becoming an underpowered rice burner.

[Balta1701]

Thread cleaned up and temporarily closed.

[Balta1701]

And, thread re-opened after a calming down/cleanup period.

 

As a reminder, even in this forum, there's a line.

[BigSqwert]

If this engine is electric, runs only 50 miles, dies out -- then switches to conventional gasoline -- this is NOT an alternative technology at all.

 

It's a crappy stopgap, nothing more.

 

It's another version of a hybrid...it's NOT the answer.

 

Maybe not for your needs but I'd bet an overwhelming majority of people would benefit from this.

 

 

Let's stop talking about nickle and diming our way with expensive crappy cars like this one -- we want alternative means that WORKS. How about an electric car that recharges in 5 minutes and can drive 300+ miles on a single charge that has 300HP and 300FPT, able to carry loads upwards of 2500+lbs?! THAT'S a viable alternative...

 

Again, most people don't need something like that.