The environment thread

[Balta1701]

No, but everything you post is how great their system is, more or less, because you want the same regulations and government control. So, just go live there.

So...you're admitting...you think China is what an economy with regulations on it looks like. And you wonder why we don't respect your opinions of what is "Socialism"?

[kapkomet]

So...you're admitting...you think China is what an economy with regulations on it looks like. And you wonder why we don't respect your opinions of what is "Socialism"?

 

 

No, I don't admit that. YOU are the one that runs around claiming we need more regulation and government control on everything. You even posted how great their economy is. I'm claiming no such thing, you are.

[kapkomet]

F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** *F*** F*** F*** F***.

 

Really, there are no other options. They'll try stuff, but this was the one that had to work. This will be going until the relief wells hit. This one was a 50/50 shot at worst. The rest of them are 10 to 1 chances; it doesn't hurt to try, but they tried this one first for a reason.

 

 

Well, I don't think any of us can disagree with this sentiment.

[Balta1701]

Well, I don't think any of us can disagree with this sentiment.

If the government-done estimate of 2-4 Exxons was right (and frankly I'm still skeptical but I can believe that more than BP's number), I was somewhat hopeful it might be still small enough for Florida to be somewhat safe. If it keeps rolling for several more months at that rate, or even worse if the mix becomes more oil and less gas as the reservoir starts to deplete, then it's gonna coat the whole bloody coast. Losing Louisiana is bad enough, but I really liked Florida too. I once watched a Shuttle launch across the Gulf from a west-facing beach near Panama City at 6:00 a.m. on a Geology trip. Sigh. That beach is gonna be lost.

[kapkomet]

If the government-done estimate of 2-4 Exxons was right (and frankly I'm still skeptical but I can believe that more than BP's number), I was somewhat hopeful it might be still small enough for Florida to be somewhat safe. If it keeps rolling for several more months at that rate, or even worse if the mix becomes more oil and less gas as the reservoir starts to deplete, then it's gonna coat the whole bloody coast. Losing Louisiana is bad enough, but I really liked Florida too. I once watched a Shuttle launch across the Gulf from a west-facing beach near Panama City at 6:00 a.m. on a Geology trip. Sigh. That beach is gonna be lost.

 

This goes from bad to worse.

[Balta1701]

This goes from bad to worse.

Maybe we'll get lucky on one of these next options. We have to be due for some luck down there.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, I read about the army of cleanup workers who magically appeared when the President showed up and then immediately vanished after he left, but I didn't want to post it off of just bloggity sources, it's now gotten talk on CNN.

 

It's still crap when it happens. There ought to be that many people constantly out there, in safety gear. They could use a ton more manpower right now on those beaches, but BP's in charge, so why should they spend that kind of money?

 

Edit: NBC in NOLA is calling BS as well. Abbreviate that!

Officials from Jefferson Parish claim BP bused 400 cleanup workers into Grand Isle on Friday in time for a visit from President Barack Obama.

Jefferson Parish Councilman John Young said the workers were brought in to clean oil off Grand Isle's beaches.

 

The extra workers were brought in for Friday only, at a rate of $12 an hour, officials told WDSU. They were mostly from Terrebonne and Lafourche parishes.

 

Jefferson Parish Councilman Chris Roberts didn’t buy into the cleanup effort.

 

"They must think we're all fools," he said.

[kapkomet]

BP's not in charge, your president told me so.

 

[Balta1701]

BP's not in charge, your president told me so.

I believe he also said they were doing everything they could, right?

 

So, if that's true, he needs to never leave the coast, because that's the only way BP will keep paying the cleanup people.

[kapkomet]

I believe he also said they were doing everything they could, right?

 

So, if that's true, he needs to never leave the coast, because that's the only way BP will keep paying the cleanup people.

 

Really? They can't do anything without approval from our "boot on the neck" Obama administration. Your president told us so.

[StrangeSox]

No, I don't admit that. YOU are the one that runs around claiming we need more regulation and government control on everything. You even posted how great their economy is. I'm claiming no such thing, you are.

:lolhitting :lolhitting

 

Yeah, when I think Chinese industrial power, I think strict government regulations!

 

 

[southsider2k5]

:lolhitting :lolhitting

 

Yeah, when I think Chinese industrial power, I think strict government regulations!

 

Because we always execute executives for their corporate malfeasance....

[StrangeSox]

Balta's got some safe, clean toothpaste and children's toys to sell you. Oh, and some great land by an electronics recycling facility. And some food for your dogs and cats. Also, employment opportunities for your small child.

 

kap is equating China with socialism and then trying to tar balta's position as "you want us to be China!"

Edited May 30, 2010 by StrangeSox

[kapkomet]

Balta's got some safe, clean toothpaste and children's toys to sell you. Oh, and some great land by an electronics recycling facility. And some food for your dogs and cats. Also, employment opportunities for your small child.

 

kap is equating China with socialism and then trying to tar balta's position as "you want us to be China!"

 

 

He does. Their system works better, he said so. Our market is obviously too greedy.

[southsider2k5]

Balta's got some safe, clean toothpaste and children's toys to sell you. Oh, and some great land by an electronics recycling facility. And some food for your dogs and cats. Also, employment opportunities for your small child.

 

kap is equating China with socialism and then trying to tar balta's position as "you want us to be China!"

 

And when BP's CEO gets the needle, I will believe it. Then again, it is all proof that more government and more rules really doesn't work.

[Balta1701]

This is the most honest statement I think I've heard anyone in BP or the government make since this started.

"This scares everybody — the fact that we can't make this well stop flowing or the fact that we haven't succeeded so far."

-BP's COO.

[KipWellsFan]

Really? They can't do anything without approval from our "boot on the neck" Obama administration. Your president told us so.

 

5. I will not prod posters repeatedly on a subject or chase them across topics to make a point

6. I will try to make posts that actually add to the discussion at hand

[kapkomet]

 

 

[kapkomet]

They had a graphic on saying if there is a big hurricane to go east of the oil spill site, it could be the best thing that happens as it would blow a huge offshore flow and disperse a lot of the oil.

 

On the other hand, if there is a big one that goes west of the slick, it would push the flow right on shore.

 

I think we all need to hope we get enough of one that limits damage but goes east of the spill (that would be the Fla. panhandle).

 

 

[kapkomet]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill_plumes

 

Ok, I say he's full of s***, yet, I can't disagree with the density of oil. Question is, though, are they changing the density and/or chemical composition with the dispersants?

 

[southsider2k5]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill_plumes

 

Ok, I say he's full of s***, yet, I can't disagree with the density of oil. Question is, though, are they changing the density and/or chemical composition with the dispersants?

 

I am self admittedly not a scientist, but doesn't oil float on top of water?

[kapkomet]

I am self admittedly not a scientist, but doesn't oil float on top of water?

 

Yea, that's his point, but then why are we having all these studies that is saying oil is staying well below the surface?

 

Even "heavy oil" would come up I would think.

[Balta1701]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill_plumes

 

Ok, I say he's full of s***, yet, I can't disagree with the density of oil. Question is, though, are they changing the density and/or chemical composition with the dispersants?

Yes, that is the first thing that is happening. Go back 5 pages or so where I posted the Good Morning America dive video...they're not just changing the density, they're changing the grain size with these dispersants.

 

They're chemically doing what you do when you shake up a bottle of italian dressing, making the oil particles small enough that they can be suspended. But, because they're doing that, the difference in density between the oil and the water might still exist, but the force on each particle is not large enough to overcome the mixing energy of the waves.

 

Same basic idea as putting your foot into mud at the bottom of a lake and watching silt get kicked up around it. The silt is still heavier than the water, but because the stuff is so small, it's able to get mixed up by the smallest input of energy, such as a wave or eddy current, or any of the deeper water plumes/currents in the Gulf.

 

On top of that, yes, you're right, this is also heavy oil. It's not like vegetable oil, it's more like the consistency of tar, and its erupting on the bottom of the ocean, 5000 feet down.

 

Think for a moment about what happens on the way up...there's 5000 feet of density separation through layers of varying density, temperature, salinity. The oil that is coming out is not a single component, it's a mixture of things like toluene, benzene, ethylene, and literally hundreds of other components, in addition to the dirt/mud from the reservoir.. Each of those components on its own has its own density; some are lighter and some are heavier. The lighter ones are going to get separated; it's also entirely possible that the heavier ones could slow down while the lighter components form the sheen at the surface.

 

If you dumped everything onto the surface in a spill, you might not be able to get it to go down because it would stay as a mixture that wanted to float. But, you've erupted it in a highly energetic way, shoving it at pressure into the ocean, and then applying an intense density filter. In that case, separation of components is going to be much more likely.

 

There's lots of ways for it to make sense that there is a huge amount underwater, including both the dispersants and the method of entry into the ocean. The BP CEO obviously ought to know all of this.

[Balta1701]

BTW, I bash drudge enough for ridiculous headlines. This qualifies.

 

Katrina killed nearly 2000 people. What moron came up with that page.

[Balta1701]