The environment thread

[Balta1701]

The EPA knows it can't do any better, so it is cowering in a corner somewhere.

Actually, it could.

[kapkomet]

Actually, it could.

 

That's bulls*** and you know it. If they could, they would be.

[Balta1701]

That's bulls*** and you know it. If they could, they would be.

There hasn't even been an attempt to do proper booming work around the Gulf, and right now, if you had the money to pay for 10x the number of workers to shovel up oil on the beaches, you still wouldn't have enough people.

 

The EPA could have done better if it took about 30 minutes to hire people who knew how to do booming. Or if it was willing to spend BP's money.

 

They could also find work for about 20+ oil tanker vessels vacuuming up the stuff.

[kapkomet]

There hasn't even been an attempt to do proper booming work around the Gulf, and right now, if you had the money to pay for 10x the number of workers to shovel up oil on the beaches, you still wouldn't have enough people.

 

The EPA could have done better if it took about 30 minutes to hire people who knew how to do booming. Or if it was willing to spend BP's money.

 

They could also find work for about 20+ oil tanker vessels vacuuming up the stuff.

 

 

So, that's either George W. Bush's fault, or it's BP. Got it.

[StrangeSox]

Uh, yeah, Kap. It is BP's fault.

[kapkomet]

Uh, yeah, Kap. It is BP's fault.

 

No, no... the EPA could nail their balls to the wall, according to Balta (which is a true statement... ironically enough). So, it's the EPA's fault because they refuse to act. But I'm sure George W. Bush told BP to blow up a well, you know, because every policy he had, or did not have, has led to the destruction of the world.

[Balta1701]

No, no... the EPA could nail their balls to the wall, according to Balta (which is a true statement... ironically enough). So, it's the EPA's fault because they refuse to act. But I'm sure George W. Bush told BP to blow up a well, you know, because every policy he had, or did not have, has led to the destruction of the world.

I don't really care whether or not the EPA nails them to the wall right now, what I'd like to see is an effective containment and cleanup strategy rather than the joke we've seen for the last month.

[kapkomet]

I don't really care whether or not the EPA nails them to the wall right now, what I'd like to see is an effective containment and cleanup strategy rather than the joke we've seen for the last month.

 

Yea, we all would, but you know this is George W. Bush's fault.

[Balta1701]

Yea, we all would, but you know this is George W. Bush's fault.

For it happening, for the drilling in deep water and not even employing the safeguards the rest of the world employs I can come up with plenty of blame (the 2001 Cheney task force wouldn't have had it any other way). For the current response, the only way I could come up with blame is that they didn't require adequate boom stored nearby prior to approving the drilling. But...considering that the guys deploying it have no idea or plan for how they're doing it, and the government isn't bothering to force them to do it right, that really wouldn't have mattered.

[SouthsideDon48]

No, no... the EPA could nail their balls to the wall, according to Balta (which is a true statement... ironically enough). So, it's the EPA's fault because they refuse to act. But I'm sure George W. Bush told BP to blow up a well, you know, because every policy he had, or did not have, has led to the destruction of the world.

Actually, Bush's policies very well could have led to the oil disaster in the Gulf.

 

After all, Bush and Cheney wanted to deregulate everything. They even deregulated the oil industry, and that's why there's so many lax quality controls in this disaster. BP was basically allowed to drill a well without any regulations by the government to ensure no disasterous oil leaks would happen, and this is all because of Bush's business-first policies.

[Balta1701]

Actually, Bush's policies very well could have led to the oil disaster in the Gulf.

 

After all, Bush and Cheney wanted to deregulate everything. They even deregulated the oil industry, and that's why there's so many lax quality controls in this disaster. BP was basically allowed to drill a well without any regulations by the government to ensure no disasterous oil leaks would happen, and this is all because of Bush's business-first policies.

Policies which, I might add, the Obama administration has adopted, publicly supported, and continued.

[mr_genius]

Obama lifts whaling ban.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/05...ercial-whaling/

 

Environmentalists, already peeved with the administration’s handling of the Gulf oil spill, are accusing President Obama of breaking his campaign pledge to end the slaughter of whales.

[Balta1701]

Obama lifts whaling ban.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/05...ercial-whaling/

Take that ocean!!!!

[southsider2k5]

Take that ocean!!!!

 

Well too be fair, once the oil gets them, it won't be much of a challenge.

[Rex Kickass]

Take that ocean!!!!

 

To be fair, Iceland does commercially hunt whales under very strict limitations, and the market is so small that they don't even fill their annual cap of 30-35 whales per year. There are about 250,000 whales in the waters surrounding Iceland, IIRC, and limited hunting would be sustainable.

[NorthSideSox72]

To be fair, Iceland does commercially hunt whales under very strict limitations, and the market is so small that they don't even fill their annual cap of 30-35 whales per year. There are about 250,000 whales in the waters surrounding Iceland, IIRC, and limited hunting would be sustainable.

This seems like pretty much classic Obama environmental policy, thus far. Its the halfway answer. Offer the olive branch of allowing a very small number to be taken over 10 years at reducing levels, and in exchange get transparency to keep illegal operations better in check. In the long run, its probably a positive net effect.

 

[kapkomet]

This seems like pretty much classic Obama environmental policy, thus far. Its the halfway answer. Offer the olive branch of allowing a very small number to be taken over 10 years at reducing levels, and in exchange get transparency to keep illegal operations better in check. In the long run, its probably a positive net effect.

 

 

When you look into your sunglasses, a reflection of Obama appears. True story.

[Balta1701]

When you look into your sunglasses, a reflection of Obama appears. True story.

Same with yours.

 

Except...there's a lot of fire. Bunch of crucifixes and pitchforks. And scrolling profanity in the background.

[BigSqwert]

Obama lifts whaling ban.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/05...ercial-whaling/

f*** him. I'm through with that f***er.

[kapkomet]

Same with yours.

 

Except...there's a lot of fire. Bunch of crucifixes and pitchforks. And scrolling profanity in the background.

 

 

Right. We all know I'm a bigoted, racist f***er, because I'm conservatove.

[NorthSideSox72]

When you look into your sunglasses, a reflection of Obama appears. True story.

On stuff like this, I'll wear it. I'm fine with this decision, as I agree that in the long run its probably for the best.

 

I've not been ecstatic with Obama thus far, but I think he's taken the right approach on most environmental issues. He knows you can't just go in and lay down the law about alt energy and wild lands/animal protections, especially with the economy in the s***ter. But instead of abandoning ship entirely on the matter (ala Bush), he's trying to get done what he can get done.

 

[Balta1701]

I'm hoping the swear filter cleans this up appropriately.

The sailor, who Buzbee refuses to name for fear of costing him his job, was on the ship's bridge when Deepwater Horizon installation manager Jimmy Harrell, a top employee of rig owner Transocean, was speaking with someone in Houston via satellite phone. Buzbee told Mother Jones that, according to this witness account, Harrell was screaming, "Are you f***ing happy? Are you f***ing happy? The rig's on fire! I told you this was gonna happen."

 

Whoever was on the other end of the line was apparently trying to calm Harrell down. "I am f***ing calm," he went on, according to Buzbee. "You realize the rig is burning?"

Tony Buzbee is an attorney representing 15 of the rig workers and several fisherman/residents.

[Balta1701]

Fish.

[StrangeSox]

Thanks for ruining my day, Balta.

[Balta1701]

It sure sounds like the actual attempt to build a clean energy economy is going to get stripped out of any energy bill that goes before the Senate this year.

And now it's starting to look like a smaller bill may, in fact, be in the offing. Earlier today, Chuck Schumer was on MSNBC and said that the legislation Reid was assembling would resemble the (weak) energy-only bill passed by Jeff Bingaman's committee back in June. In other words, there'd be some renewable-power mandates, some incentives for nuclear, some funds to kick-start new transmission lines, and some new regulations on oil companies. If Kerry and Lieberman want to tack on a cap-and-trade scheme on top of all that, Schumer said, they'll "get a chance to add it in the form of an amendment."

 

If Schumer's right, this would certainly lower the odds that Congress will pass a carbon-pricing scheme this year. The logic behind combining everything into one big bill, as Kerry and Lieberman did, was so that the items that were popular with senators (like oil regulations or financial support for nuclear utilities) were mashed together with the unpopular items (cap-and-trade), and there'd be one big up-or-down vote on the whole enchilada. If energy and climate get separated out, then it's less likely the latter can survive.

So NSS and others, your grand bargain, where we give up enormous amounts of money to coal, nuclear, and oil interests in order to buy them off so that they won't complain too much about cap and trade of CO2 emissions is likely to be replaced by giving enormous amounts of money to coal, nuclear, and oil interests, so that they won't be too mad if we give much less money to renewable energy companies.