Lance Broadway

[Chisoxfn]

Broadway made his first major league start tonight and I must say that my opinion of him has changed massively to what it was prior to the start. Prior to the start I had him pencilled in as a guy that I'd trade in a heartbeat but now I feel most confident in him being our 5th starter next season (heck, I'm as confident in him as I am in Danks).

 

I also think the Sox brass all had there eyes on this start and while it is unwise to evaluate a guy based on one game, its hard not to look at this game and his prior relief outings and not come off impressed.

 

Broadway doesn't posses dominant major league stuff, but we all knew that. Hell, we knew that when he was drafted in the first round and while there were some that felt the Sox made it a reach, he was still wideley considered a first round to supplemental round talent based on his curve ball. However, you also have to factor in his movement and I barely saw a ball out of Lance's hand that came out straight. He was able to run the ball in and out of the zone & up and down the zone all night long.

 

You don't see that type of ability out of many young pitchers. He still has a pedestrian change-up, imo as well as a pedestrian slider (which I think is more of a cutter than a slider) but that spike curve looks like a great out pitch (especially if he can throw strikes as hitters will chase that curve all day long).

 

Right now I think Broadway has tremendous mound comparison, great movement, a good curve and the ability to become a good #3 pitcher with improved command. The best part is he seems to have a very fluid delivery and that should make it easier for his command to improve with experience (and just him getting more and more used to that new 2 seamer).

 

This guy, along with Danks/Floyd/Gio/Egbert are the reason why the Sox are going to move both Garland and Contreras this off-season. In fact, with time, I think Broadway has the ability to have a career similar to Jon (although Broadway is obviously a bit older than Jon was when he first reached the majors).

[greg775]

This guy, along with Danks/Floyd/Gio/Egbert are the reason why the Sox are going to move both Garland and Contreras this off-season

 

Great post. Very informative on what you saw out of Broadway.

I think it's dangerous to deal Jon, but that's just me.

I would not trust Danks/Flod/Gio/Egbert. Hopefully we'll get some new long relievers if our rotation consists of just 2 reliable starters and a bunch of unknowns.

[Jack Parkman]

What was the FB like 91-94? 89-92? I really want to know.

[whitesoxfan101]

With what I saw of Broadway, it was mostly 90 or 91 MPH on the fastball, his slider was 84 or 85 that often moved more like a cutter, and he threw an occasional changeup that was in the 79 to 81 range and an occasional curveball that was at about the same speed, but really dove downward. I'd tell you what kind of fastball he has, but man it had a lot of different kinds of movement. Some cutters, but a lot of sinking movement on his pitches. The velocity was pedestrian, but he just had a boatload of movement on all of his pitches, which led to a lot of strikeouts and the Royals just could not center the ball. Maybe the walks at AAA were due to the movement being a bit unpredictable for all I know, but he was impressive tonight at least. Interesting to see what happens with Lance next March.

Edited September 28, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Chisoxfn]

What was the FB like 91-94? 89-92? I really want to know.

The Comcast gun never reached higher than 89 and for the most part was 86-87. I have no idea if that gun was accurate at all though. Hell the Comcast gun is probably the worse gun in sports. That said I know he can't really top 92-93 (and even that may be a bit of a stretch).

 

I will say this...if the gun wasn't on (and I was purely guessing speed based on the hitters reactions) I'd have said he hit 93-94 at least a couple of times. The ball really seemed to explode into the mitt and you could see he blew at least a few guys away with fastballs (Gaithright on a fastball coming in on his hands...Buck on a high fastball).

[Chisoxfn]

With what I saw of Broadway, it was mostly 90 or 91 MPH on the fastball, his slider was 84 or 85 that often moved more like a cutter, and he threw an occasional changeup that was in the 79 to 81 range and an occasional curveball that was at about the same speed, but really dove downward. I'd tell you what kind of fastball he has, but man it had a lot of different kinds of movement. Some cutters, but a lot of sinking movement on his pitches. The velocity was pedestrian, but he just had a boatload of movement on all of his pitches, which led to a lot of strikeouts and the Royals just could not center the ball. Maybe the walks at AAA were due to the movement being a bit unpredictable for all I know, but he was impressive tonight at least. Interesting to see what happens with Lance next March.

Ya, that movement was ridiculous. He could run it in and out all day long and that should bode well with him being able to get lefties and righties out. Plus he could throw it up and down in the zone (he had a nice one on Buck, got Gaithright on an elevated fastball) and than down in the zone he got a good number of grounders with some nice sink.

 

Hell, all that movement almost acts as a few different pitches as opposed to just a fastball. This is a guy that if he improves his command could really be a solid starter.

[whitesoxfan101]

I don't trust the comcast gun, ever. I was on gamecast on mlb's site throughout the game, and that is where I got the velocities from that are in my last post, and gameday's velocity is usually dead on and it was matching what my eyes told me as the game went on.

[fathom]

The Comcast gun never reached higher than 89 and for the most part was 86-87. I have no idea if that gun was accurate at all though. Hell the Comcast gun is probably the worse gun in sports. That said I know he can't really top 92-93 (and even that may be a bit of a stretch).

 

I will say this...if the gun wasn't on (and I was purely guessing speed based on the hitters reactions) I'd have said he hit 93-94 at least a couple of times. The ball really seemed to explode into the mitt and you could see he blew at least a few guys away with fastballs (Gaithright on a fastball coming in on his hands...Buck on a high fastball).

 

The gun seemed accurate based on the other pitchers in the game. I'd say he was at 87 consistently. I wonder how he'd do against a patient team, as the Royals weren't exactly working the count. The best thing that could come out of this is if his trade value increases, as he's not an AL starting pitcher, IMO.

[fathom]

Hell, all that movement almost acts as a few different pitches as opposed to just a fastball. This is a guy that if he improves his command could really be a solid starter.

 

I do agree with this....guys who don't throw over 90 mph need to have pinpoint control. I was surprised at his comments yesterday about how bad his 2-seam command is.

[Chisoxfn]

Great post. Very informative on what you saw out of Broadway.

I think it's dangerous to deal Jon, but that's just me.

I would not trust Danks/Flod/Gio/Egbert. Hopefully we'll get some new long relievers if our rotation consists of just 2 reliable starters and a bunch of unknowns.

I'd really like to keep Garland too, but If the Sox aren't interested in resigning him (and are already maxed out payroll wise with Buehrle/Javier in the rotation) than I would have no problem moving him and Contreras. I do think if you did that you'd have to get at least one starter from somewhere else and than pencil two young guys into the back spot.

 

I have zero interest in bringing back the 45 year old Contreras and I just hope his good pitching down the stretch leads to the Sox being able to get a good prospect for him or a guy like Furcal (really good player that makes a decent amount of dough). Than you parlay Garland into more wiggle room financially (which could go to the club acquiring a position star) as well as some good prospects (hopefully a promising starting pitcher and position player).

[whitesoxfan101]

The one thing that concerns me about Lance is going against patient teams (Cleveland, New York, Boston), but in our division, 3 of the 4 opponents are free swingers in KC, Detroit, and Minnesota and I could see him having a lot of success against them.

[NorthSideSox72]

There was an article in the last couple days in one of the papers, saying that Broadway was learning two new pitches this year. I'd guess his walk total may be somewhat related to that.

 

The Comcast gun was showing 88-89 for the FB, but, it also showed Riske not getting above 88 or 89, and I know he can throw low 90's. So I'd guess Broadway was about where the scouting reports put him - 90-91 FB.

 

[Chisoxfn]

The gun seemed accurate based on the other pitchers in the game. I'd say he was at 87 consistently. I wonder how he'd do against a patient team, as the Royals weren't exactly working the count. The best thing that could come out of this is if his trade value increases, as he's not an AL starting pitcher, IMO.

The Royals did work the count early in the game. The Royals obviously aren't a good hitting team, but with his movement he can get anyone out and there is no reason not to be surprised with his lack of confidence in the command of the 2 seamer (its what led to all the walks and its a completely new pitch).

 

I've heard from a couple people that I trust down in the minors who indicated how his control problems were directly tied to him working really really hard on getting his 2 seamer down. I don't feel its unrealistic (considering he has always had pretty solid control prior to adding this pitch) that he will get more used to the pitch and movement and really turn into a guy that has good command.

 

If you can have good command of an 87-89 MPH (with that sort of movement and the ability to move it every freaking way) and that curve (plus a mediocre change/slider) than you will have a long career in the AL or NL.

[whitesoxfan101]

Broadway was 90 and 91 on almost every fastball he threw on the mlb gameday gun, which I repeat is very accurate. He had a couple 89's and 92's, but it was 90-91 all night. The slider/cutter thing he threw was 84 to 85 all night as well, and the very few diving curveballs and changeups he threw were 79 to 81. His velocity was very consistent for all his pitches on gameday, and his movement was very consistent and found in all his pitches in terms of what I saw, which was nice.

Edited September 28, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[knightni]

I'd like to see him after a month of starting before I totally believe.

 

I think the Royals didn't have the book on him so, he surprised them.

[Chisoxfn]

There was an article in the last couple days in one of the papers, saying that Broadway was learning two new pitches this year. I'd guess his walk total may be somewhat related to that.

 

The Comcast gun was showing 88-89 for the FB, but, it also showed Riske not getting above 88 or 89, and I know he can throw low 90's. So I'd guess Broadway was about where the scouting reports put him - 90-91 FB.

I'm not sure if the slider or changeup is the other pitch as I always thought he had thrown the change in the past (although I briefly recall hearing something about him changing grips on his change so that could very well be it).

 

I do know he worked very very hard on his 2 seamer this year (which was a new pitch for him in 07).

[fathom]

The Royals did work the count early in the game. The Royals obviously aren't a good hitting team, but with his movement he can get anyone out and there is no reason not to be surprised with his lack of confidence in the command of the 2 seamer (its what led to all the walks and its a completely new pitch).

 

I've heard from a couple people that I trust down in the minors who indicated how his control problems were directly tied to him working really really hard on getting his 2 seamer down. I don't feel its unrealistic (considering he has always had pretty solid control prior to adding this pitch) that he will get more used to the pitch and movement and really turn into a guy that has good command.

 

If you can have good command of an 87-89 MPH (with that sort of movement and the ability to move it every freaking way) and that curve (plus a mediocre change/slider) than you will have a long career in the AL or NL.

 

It's too bad he didn't get more starts over the last month or so.

[whitesoxfan101]

I know Floyd has shown some signs, but I saw more I liked tonight from Lance than I did in Floyd's great start at Detroit. It just seems like Gavin can't consistently keep the ball down, and his movement is erratic. I wish Lance had been given a few more starts this month.

Edited September 28, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[fathom]

I know Floyd has shown some signs, but I saw more I liked tonight from Lance than I did in Floyd's great start at Detroit. It just seems like Gavin can't consistently keep the ball down, and his movement is erratic. I wish Lance had been given a few more starts this month.

 

I think the more effective one will be whoever gets better command sooner. I definitely don't think having both in the same rotation would be a winning combination.

[whitesoxfan101]

I think the more effective one will be whoever gets better command sooner. I definitely don't think having both in the same rotation would be a winning combination.

 

I agree with part 2, but at least with Lance, if his command isn't perfect he still has a lot of movement on his pitches. If Floyd's command is off, he falls behind, gets pitches up in the zone, and gives up home runs on pitches with no movement and modestly above average velocity.

[Chisoxfn]

It's too bad he didn't get more starts over the last month or so.

I still think Floyd needed starts as did Danks (just to see if he could recover). I wouldn't have minded not starting Contreras (hell I'd have waived his ass) but it turns out that ended up working out pretty well (as he may just have some trade value after all).

 

In fact, I dont' know if Jose has another start left, but if it were me, his season would be over and we'd see Heath Phillips or someone else go (just to make sure Jose's season ends on a positive and the club can try selling his last 8 starts ERA and what he did last year and the year before that).

[Chisoxfn]

I think the more effective one will be whoever gets better command sooner. I definitely don't think having both in the same rotation would be a winning combination.

Gavin has a better FB and curve, but Broadway has much better mechanics and movement and will be the better long term pitcher. I do think Floyd can be a solid 4th or 5th though but he won't be an ace.

[fathom]

I still think Floyd needed starts as did Danks (just to see if he could recover). I wouldn't have minded not starting Contreras (hell I'd have waived his ass) but it turns out that ended up working out pretty well (as he may just have some trade value after all).

 

In fact, I dont' know if Jose has another start left, but if it were me, his season would be over and we'd see Heath Phillips or someone else go (just to make sure Jose's season ends on a positive and the club can try selling his last 8 starts ERA and what he did last year and the year before that).

 

I agree with everything you said here.

[SoxAce]

Gavin has a better FB and curve, but Broadway has much better mechanics and movement and will be the better long term pitcher. I do think Floyd can be a solid 4th or 5th though but he won't be an ace.

 

Agreed. And I just saw the highlights. His fastball had damn good movement. I'll probably watch the sox replay later tonight (I believe they will show the game again) and see Broadway's pitching then.

[Gene Honda Civic]

Before the beginning of the season, I told myself I was giving Broadway a free pass in the first half. He had a decent ERA, but his peripherals were garbage. But I'm not going to hold that against him. He was learning to control a new pitch, and he'll need to be a control pitcher to survive at the big league level.

 

So... He improved in the second half, even though the ERA didn't show it, he had a K/BB ratio of exactly 2:1, and was striking out near 1 batter per inning. There was improvement, but not nearly enough to suggest that he was ready to consistently get major league hitters out.

 

Even if Coop come out and says something about how they worked really hard and refined some of his mechanics/control, I still need to see more from him on the minor league level. If he true ability was what we saw tonight (6IP 0R 8K), he'd be able to consistently post those numbers in the minors. As it was, only one of his last 10 starts in Charlotte was that good, and there were 4 starts that could be considered disasters.

 

The only way I can picture him in the opening day rotation is through a slough of pitching injuries along with a trade or two.