Lance Broadway

[RockRaines]

Kudos for Broadway for a great start, however I'm not putting any stock into one start against the KC Royals on Sept. 27th in a battle for last place. Hopefully he can keep it up and next spring and summer justify his being a first round draft pick.

Heres a question to ponder. Who looked more impressive vs those Royals at the end of sept in a battle for last place, Garland or Broadway?

[elrockinMT]

If we trade Garland based on one start from Broadway I would really question the front office. We have some good looking pitching prospects about a year or two away and I am including Danks-Floyd and Broadway in this category. They need to learn how to pitch before stepping into a major league role. You do that at AAA and not in the bigs. But, we may be forced to push them faster. Buerhle-Garland-Vazquez-?-? is the starting staff next year. You don't need to tear apart the team with the free agent crowd. Build around your strengths and not give them away to fill another need. You only open up more holes.

[RockRaines]

If we trade Garland based on one start from Broadway I would really question the front office. We have some good looking pitching prospects about a year or two away and I am including Danks-Floyd and Broadway in this category. They need to learn how to pitch before stepping into a major league role. You do that at AAA and not in the bigs. But, we may be forced to push them faster. Buerhle-Garland-Vazquez-?-? is the starting staff next year. You don't need to tear apart the team with the free agent crowd. Build around your strengths and not give them away to fill another need. You only open up more holes.

They were going to trade Garland even if Lance Broadway didnt exist.

[Texsox]

When you wrote career like Jon, would that mean trade him during what should be his best seasons?

 

I've been so down on even thinking about the next generation of players based on the last couple decades. With the reality of needing to trade future for immediate needs at times, a prospect hanging around to have his career year with the team that drafted him is so rare. Then a guy signing his third contract with the same team seems equally rare.

[southsider2k5]

It was an interesting start to say the least. Lance showed pretty much what he had been showing in his bullpen appearences. He is a guy who has a ton movement on his pitches. I really believe that his problem up to this point is that he has too much movement, and isn't yet able to spot it where he wants it exactly. His walks have gone up as the hitters get more patient through the higher levels of the minors. If Broadway can get Coop to work on repeating his delivery and controling his ball a little better, which it seems like has had some command here, he will be a solid pitcher for us. Not many pitchers throw that heavy of a fastball. If he can perfect that cutter to give him a pitch with some sideways movement to go with his heavy fastball and curveballs, he will be a tough pitcher to hit at the major league level. At that point, it will come down to him throwing strikes.

[CWSGuy406]

Maddux' velocity was nowhere near what it is now when he was Broadway's age. I just don't like the suggestion that his velocity is "Maddux-like" because of its implications. His velocity is bad and his control is nowhere near Greg Maddux level. Greg Maddux on acid could throw more strikes than Broadway.

 

I'm sure beautox sees Lance Broadway as a future Greg Maddux, 300 game winner, HoFer. That's exactly what he said in his post -- right? -- and kudos to you for nailing him on it.

 

Damn, man -- taking things a little too far?

[Harry Chappas]

I think I have paid attention to baseball enough over the last 30 years to know that I am getting really tired of speed guns and pitch counts. I have no clue how hard Lamar Hoyt, Richard Dotson, Jack Morris or Joaquin Andeujar (sp?) threw nor how many pithces they threw in a game. If you watched the game last night with neither stat you would know Lance Broadway gave up 2 hits and 2 walks in 6 innings. The Royal hitters need to prove they are worthy of the majors as does Broadway. I think it was agood match-up.

 

He, Floyd and Danks appear to be able to be servicable 5th starters at worse and possibly average number 4's. Trade Garland and Contrearas and get me some A-Rod.....that's what I'm talking about!!!!!

[whitesoxfan101]

Well I didn't see the start but it sounds like people are more encouraged by the stuff that they saw compared to just the results. I don't think anyone is convinced of anything with Lance but he's another guy you can throw into the 5th starter hat for next season.

 

Ya I was paying much more attention to the stuff than the results, it just so happened both his stuff and the results were outstanding last night.

[whitesoxfan101]

Heres a question to ponder. Who looked more impressive vs those Royals at the end of sept in a battle for last place, Garland or Broadway?

 

That's hard to say since Broadway only pitched 2/3 as long as Garland, but both were great. They did square up and make solid contact off Jon more, and obviously Lance was getting way more strikeouts, but then again they've seen Garland about 100 times already now.

Edited September 28, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[RockRaines]

That's hard to say since Broadway only pitched 2/3 as long as Garland, but both were great. They did square up and make solid contact off Jon more, and obviously Lance was getting way more strikeouts, but then again they've seen Garland about 100 times already now.

I know, I know. BUt just by judging the hitters reactions to the different pitchers, Lance impressed me. And I keep pointing to the at bat where gathright almost broke his arm trying to swing at an inside fastball on a 3-2 count. Lance was filthy, and really impressed the hell out of me last night. I would love nothing more than to havethis kid come up and be Garland-esque.

[YASNY]

Good thread guys. A lot of different but well expressed opinions. I didn't see the game, so my comments will be based on what I've read here and elsewhere.

 

Broadway stated the he pretty much threw his cutter exclusively as that was the only pitch he could consistently throw for a strike. I believe I read that at the Trib's website. If that's the case it tells me two things. One, if he was facing the Yankees or Red Sox, they would have lit him up the 2nd time through the lineup. Two, either he just had a feel for the pitch or it is a pretty damn good pitch. That remains to be seen.

 

Regarding the comment that a pitcher shouldn't learn how to pitch in the majors, well, that is correct but only to certain extent. The only way to learn how to consistently get major league hitters out is to face major league hitters unless you just really have some seriously nasty stuff. It usually takes time for a pitcher to develop the know how to be an effective big league pitcher. That is something you can't learn in the minors. Of course, there exceptions to that rule, but Lance Broadway will not be one of those exceptions.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Hey YASNY, long time, no see. Its good to see you around these parts, I don't care what Jason says

 

Anyways, I am curious if anyone had seen Broadway pitch before he got to the majors, and if they have noticed any differences (good/bad/indifferent) since he got to the bigs?

 

I'll hang up now and listen for my answer.

[CWSGuy406]

Where's our Lance Broadway?

 

(Have a laugh, Flash.)

[Chisoxfn]

I know, I know. BUt just by judging the hitters reactions to the different pitchers, Lance impressed me. And I keep pointing to the at bat where gathright almost broke his arm trying to swing at an inside fastball on a 3-2 count. Lance was filthy, and really impressed the hell out of me last night. I would love nothing more than to havethis kid come up and be Garland-esque.

I definitely think he has the ability and obviously more seasoning for him in AAA could be in order. As Gene mentioned, if he consistently pitched like this he wouldn't have posted the numbers he did down in AAA (as they were pedestrian). However, you could flat tell he was confident and even without excellent command (as he didn't have the greatest control during parts of last night game) he was still able to dominante a mediocre to poor Royals lineup.

 

And it wasn't just the results, it was more the HOW (ie the sick movement and the fact that there were only 2 or 3 hard hit balls).

[Chisoxfn]

Good thread guys. A lot of different but well expressed opinions. I didn't see the game, so my comments will be based on what I've read here and elsewhere.

 

Broadway stated the he pretty much threw his cutter exclusively as that was the only pitch he could consistently throw for a strike. I believe I read that at the Trib's website. If that's the case it tells me two things. One, if he was facing the Yankees or Red Sox, they would have lit him up the 2nd time through the lineup. Two, either he just had a feel for the pitch or it is a pretty damn good pitch. That remains to be seen.

 

Regarding the comment that a pitcher shouldn't learn how to pitch in the majors, well, that is correct but only to certain extent. The only way to learn how to consistently get major league hitters out is to face major league hitters unless you just really have some seriously nasty stuff. It usually takes time for a pitcher to develop the know how to be an effective big league pitcher. That is something you can't learn in the minors. Of course, there exceptions to that rule, but Lance Broadway will not be one of those exceptions.

You are exactly right. I think the key is to get a pitcher ready to be able to mentally handle the major leagues and have enough command to where he can get by. The rest he is going to learn on the fly at the major league level as there is only so much you can learn at the minor league level. Broadway seems to have very good confidence and mound presence to go with great movement and I think long term he will actually turn into one of the better members of that draft class (and this is after I consistently ripped him). Guys with that type of movement don't tend to get hit very hard (although I obviously have to see him repeat the performance but I assume he typically has that much life to his pitches).

[beautox]

Let's stop comparing him or his stuff to 40 year old Greg Maddux. That's not all that hot a compliment, even if he can still put it through a lifesaver. And further, he will never have Greg Maddux' control. Precious few people ever will, and a guy whose control wasn't all that hot in AAA doesn't warrant such outrageous comparison.

 

Fine Gregory, I'll stop comparing Lances mediocre fastball ala "Maddux-esk", when you stop comparing Jon Garland to Mike Hampton; sound like a deal?

 

seriously though if you read my post there are alot of IFs IF he can locate, IF he continues to refine his change.

 

I didn't say he was Maddux, I just simply said he has pedestrian velocity with amazing movement on his pitches and that IF he can locate he will be able to miss alot of bats with it.

[beautox]

I too was happy to see him pitch well... it was a nice, encouraging reason to turn on this game in glorious HD. However, Broadway won't strike that many batters normally, that much I can promise you. I did LOVE how AJ handled the youngster... he will definitely be good for a staff of mostly youth next year.

 

I can tell you one thing, I'd rather win 70 games next year with 4 youths in the rotation than win 81 with Garland and Contreras, neither gets you the playoffs, one develops the youngsters and gets you a high draft pick, the other leaves you in mediocrity Get a solid return for Garland, and get whatever chicken scraps you can for Contreras, and move on. If I have Buehrle, I'm happy.

 

i agree completely, id rather develop youth in the rotation and get a better draft pick, than win 81 games and just get complimentray picks for JG and who knows maybe by the grace of God, the chicago white sox starting staff (Danks, Floyd, Broadway/Egbert/Gio) can come out guns blazing ala the young marlins staff of 06, i highly doubt it, but you never know, thats what makes this game so great.

[elrockinMT]

They were going to trade Garland even if Lance Broadway didnt exist.

 

 

Wwe have heard that for three years and Garland still goes out and pitches for the Sox. Hopefully he will be there in 2008 and beyond. We have heard that the Sox are willing to spend money to win. They ahve paid Buerhle and Dye to stay and signed Vazquez to a few more years. Garland is an ace pitcher, but as I have said before, we seem to have so little faith in our own players or consider they have value. If any pitcher gets traded it will be Contreras. Trade both Garland and Contreras and we won't be competing next year either. The starting staff wasn't our problem in 2007, it was the bullpen. You strengthen that, but don't open another hole-that being in the starting staff-by trading our best pitchers.

[joejoesox]

Copy/Paste this into your windows media player and you can watch last nights game for free:

 

Edit: Doesn't seem to work for whatever reason, however MLB.com lets you watch pre-recorded games for free now, so just browse to yesterdays sox game and giddy up

 

Here's the exact URL that their windows media movie points to, if anyone can do anything with it

 

http://www.mlb.com/shared/media/mediaMetaF...87.52%26ct8%3D1

Edited September 28, 2007 by joesaiditstrue

[witesoxfan]

Is there really anything wrong with comparing a 24 year old pitcher to a 38-41 year old Greg Maddux?

[whitesoxfan101]

Hey YASNY, long time, no see. Its good to see you around these parts, I don't care what Jason says

 

Anyways, I am curious if anyone had seen Broadway pitch before he got to the majors, and if they have noticed any differences (good/bad/indifferent) since he got to the bigs?

 

I'll hang up now and listen for my answer.

 

He'd have probably kept throwing all his other pitches even though he had no control on them, and ended up with about half a dozen walks and a 3 or 4 run allowed, 5 inning outing if it were at Charlotte last night. But since it was up here, he just threw what worked and based on the counts and had a very good outing it turned out. I think that is why his minor league numbers this year are very deceptive, he was doing so much working on his control of his pitches that he sacrificed some numbers to do so. Then again, the fact he only had control of basically 2 pitches last night is an example of why he needs another year in AAA, but also the fact he pitched that well only controlling 2 pitches shows why he has hope.