Am I missing something???

[gosox41]

Was 2007 really just a fluke year where it's worth bringing back the core withour majorly upgrading the glaring holes on the team?

 

Based on KW's recent comments, I have a feeling we're in for a disappoint off season. The team needs some major help, and it seems like KW is looking to dump Garland and overpay for Rowand or Hunter. Uribe looks to be on his way back. It even looks like he's only going to go after 1-2 relievers and odds are neither will be dominant, but more like a crap shoot.

 

Is KW watching the same team I am? I'm seeing a team with about a $100 million payroll that hasn't .500 baseball for a half since the first half of 2006. I see a team of one dimensional power hitters who strike out a ton and outside of PK and Thome can't even match the league average in OBP. I see a SS who has like a .260 OBP and is most likely coming back next year even though his numbers have declined for 3 strasight years. I see a team that is already starting to show it's age turn another year older next year. A team that had a bullpen that sucks that will probably only make an upgrade or 2 while relying on Ehren Wassermann.

 

Why should I think this team can contend let alone win the division next year without undrgoing a major overhaul. If this team played above .500 in the second half of 2006 I can maybe see some glimmer of hope. But now we have roughly 250 games in a row of bad baseball due mainly to lack of execution.

 

The funny thing is our GM and Manager talk about grinder ball and the need for getting guys who can do the little things. I see Ozzie begging for more speed, but we're running out of positions to put guys if we do get speed. While theyre talking about this stuff, they haven't actually done much to act on it.

 

Remember April when the weather was cold and wet? Remember how many of our power hitters weren't hitting their weight? Whose to say it won't be cold next year. At least having some speed will minimize slumps like this.

 

So someone please, give me some hope. If KW makes some major changes I'll be thrilled but I don't see minor one's doing much.

 

 

 

Bob

[Maverick0984]

Was 2007 really just a fluke year where it's worth bringing back the core withour majorly upgrading the glaring holes on the team?

 

Based on KW's recent comments, I have a feeling we're in for a disappoint off season. The team needs some major help, and it seems like KW is looking to dump Garland and overpay for Rowand or Hunter. Uribe looks to be on his way back. It even looks like he's only going to go after 1-2 relievers and odds are neither will be dominant, but more like a crap shoot.

 

Is KW watching the same team I am? I'm seeing a team with about a $100 million payroll that hasn't .500 baseball for a half since the first half of 2006. I see a team of one dimensional power hitters who strike out a ton and outside of PK and Thome can't even match the league average in OBP. I see a SS who has like a .260 OBP and is most likely coming back next year even though his numbers have declined for 3 strasight years. I see a team that is already starting to show it's age turn another year older next year. A team that had a bullpen that sucks that will probably only make an upgrade or 2 while relying on Ehren Wassermann.

 

Why should I think this team can contend let alone win the division next year without undrgoing a major overhaul. If this team played above .500 in the second half of 2006 I can maybe see some glimmer of hope. But now we have roughly 250 games in a row of bad baseball due mainly to lack of execution.

 

The funny thing is our GM and Manager talk about grinder ball and the need for getting guys who can do the little things. I see Ozzie begging for more speed, but we're running out of positions to put guys if we do get speed. While theyre talking about this stuff, they haven't actually done much to act on it.

 

Remember April when the weather was cold and wet? Remember how many of our power hitters weren't hitting their weight? Whose to say it won't be cold next year. At least having some speed will minimize slumps like this.

 

So someone please, give me some hope. If KW makes some major changes I'll be thrilled but I don't see minor one's doing much.

Bob

 

The sky is falling.

[gosox41]

The sky is falling.

 

 

Since there is no teal I'll assume you're not optimistic about next year unless major changes are made. If you're being sarcastic then I recommend changing colors as I certainly missed your point.

 

 

Bob

[Gregory Pratt]

Since there is no teal I'll assume you're not optimistic about next year unless major changes are made. If you're being sarcastic then I recommend changing colors as I certainly missed your point.

Bob

 

We don't use teal here. We use green. But it isn't always necessary. That said, I don't know if he was kidding or not.

[Baines3]

I don't mean to be negative toward the Sox but I don't have much hope either for next season unless some major changes are made.

[Baines3]

We are going to need help in the bullpen next season for sure also in starting pitching. I need to see what changes are made before first.

[witesoxfan]

A see a CFer, middle infielder (be it SS or 2B), and one veteran reliever being brought in; I also see Garland being traded, and possibly Contreras. If Contreras is traded, there will be an open competition for 3 rotation spots, because I don't think Danks' job is guaranteed for next year (that trade went from being completely one-sided to being a pretty even trade, perhaps even better for Texas in a hell of a hurry). I just don't want to have to mentally connect the names Jeriome Robertson and John Danks any longer, so next year is a big year for Danks.

 

If the middle infielder that's brought in is Eckstein, I'm going to flip s***.

Edited October 1, 2007 by witesoxfan

[hitlesswonder]

We don't use teal here. We use green. But it isn't always necessary. That said, I don't know if he was kidding or not.

 

He shouldn't be kidding. If KW believes what he says, then the Sox will not return to playoff contention under his leadership. He's espousing the SF Giants and Oriole organizational philosophy of signing aging players to deals that tie up the payroll and ignoring the minor league system. The Giants were famous for signing crappy free agents just so they didn't have to pay the signing cost of a first round pick. I guess declining arbitration on Riske was sign this was coming.

 

I'm tired of hearing how this a championship core -- by that logic the Sox should bring back Timo Perez. Williams this season has repeatedly overpaid for aging mediocrity (Dye, AJ....) and is going to give a few million dollars to the likes of Ozuna and Mike Myers. That adds up -- to more than the cost of signing a decent draft choice. I miss the GM who was willing to trade Aaron Rowand. All of a sudden, when the team sucks, KW decides to become conservative.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

He shouldn't be kidding. If KW believes what he says, then the Sox will not return to playoff contention under his leadership. He's espousing the SF Giants and Oriole organizational philosophy of signing aging players to deals that tie up the payroll and ignoring the minor league system. The Giants were famous for signing crappy free agents just so they didn't have to pay the signing cost of a first round pick. I guess declining arbitration on Riske was sign this was coming.

 

I'm tired of hearing how this a championship core -- by that logic the Sox should bring back Timo Perez. Williams this season has repeatedly overpaid for aging mediocrity (Dye, AJ....) and is going to give a few million dollars to the likes of Ozuna and Mike Myers. That adds up -- to more than the cost of signing a decent draft choice. I miss the GM who was willing to trade Aaron Rowand. All of a sudden, when the team sucks, KW decides to become conservative.

 

I agree with the general thought of the post, but you'd be very hard pressed to find a better deal on the market for a right fielder than the one the Sox got for JD. It's short, it's a reasonable salary, and Dye will likely outproduce many free agents on the market.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I can kind of see where Kenny is coming from in this article. When people think rebuild, you think 100% start from scratch. Kind of like the Marlins did a few years back. Well, when you've got guys like Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez, Contreras, Jenks, Konerko, Dye and Thome - you're not starting from scratch. That's juat a fact. Now, does that mean we don't have a ton of holes that need to be filled? Absolutely not. I think Kenny just saying it's not like we don't have anything to build off of. This is a big, big summer for Kenny. He knows that better than anyone. I'm not going to go apes*** everytime an article comes out that doesn't say what I want to hear, atleast not right now. Let's give the man a chance to atleast semi-fix this mess.

[greg775]

Legitimate concerns, gosox.

You made me cringe thinking about it being cold next April and the team sucking

again.

That would suck.

I personally think we need to keep Mark, Vazzy and Jon as a solid threesome, at least

on paper a solid threesome.

But I guess Garland is gone from what everybody is saying.

He needs to overhaul the bullpen and needs to let Erstad walk.

We do not need or want Erstad.

We need 2 new middle relievers; we need a new ss not named Eckstein.

We need Hunter.

I love Rowand but he had a pretty amazing season in Philly and I can see the

meltdown coming if he has a bad April and May from Sox fans on here. He might

actually be due for a down year. He's been good since leaving here. And we have

been awful bad since he left.

I would say the odds of the team sucking again are much greater than the odds

of being a .550 team.

Edited October 1, 2007 by greg775

[Yossarian]

Good posts by gosox41, hitlesswonder, and greg775.

[LVSoxFan]

I get Bob's point and I suppose I'm willing to hold off and see what KW is thinking here but I will say this: another season like this one and I want KW gone. Gone, gone gone.

 

I also think the rotting core of our farm system is what's undermining this team. With the exception of Fields--who needs work--nobody they brought up this year excited me.

 

But having had to suffer through 2nd half 2006 and this, truly the most dismal season I can remember (how perfect that yesterday went the way it did), I'm not going to listen to any of Kenny Wannestadt's crap if we aren't just killing next season.

 

The other topic among us at Saturday night's game was how we are totally sick of homers. Sure they're fun but we'd all give 'em all back for clutch hitting, bunting, opposite field hitting--you name it. But enough of the big bombing, feast-or-famine offense.

[Dick Allen]

Since KW has taken the reigns the only teams in the AL to make fewer playoff appearances are Balt., KC, Tor., TB, and Tex. The Tigers and Mariners have both made the same amount. Maybe its unfair to say he took over a 94 win team so he should do better, but its not like he had to overlook a total rebuild. He did win with a lot of inherited pieces. The leash should be short. Very short.

[NorthSideSox72]

Question: Am I missing something???

 

Answer: The offseason... which hasn't even started yet.

 

[Texsox]

I believe this is a one year fluke and feel confident with a minimal of changes. I think the starting rotation could be one of the top 4 or 5 in the AL next year and the pen could be top three or four. That alone should be enough for a play off spot. While Garland gets all the attention, I'd rather see Jose moved, if a starter gets moved.

[gosox41]

Question: Am I missing something???

 

Answer: The offseason... which hasn't even started yet.

 

 

So you see major changes on the horizon. It's goin to be awfully hard to do that with the payroll where it's at right now.

 

 

 

Bob

[gosox41]

A see a CFer, middle infielder (be it SS or 2B), and one veteran reliever being brought in; I also see Garland being traded, and possibly Contreras. If Contreras is traded, there will be an open competition for 3 rotation spots, because I don't think Danks' job is guaranteed for next year (that trade went from being completely one-sided to being a pretty even trade, perhaps even better for Texas in a hell of a hurry). I just don't want to have to mentally connect the names Jeriome Robertson and John Danks any longer, so next year is a big year for Danks.

 

If the middle infielder that's brought in is Eckstein, I'm going to flip s***.

 

 

If both Garland and Contreras are traded, we are pretty much rebuilding the starting pitching staff. If you're going to do that, then why stop there. I can't think of many teams that have made the playoffs with 2 vets, a second year player, and 2 rookies.

 

KW might be able to get a top pitching prospect for Garland but it would still be a rookie.

 

I'm not too optimistic about the free agent options to fill up the rotation either, especially considering the cost of pitching these days.

 

 

 

Bob

[gosox41]

I'm tired of hearing how this a championship core -- by that logic the Sox should bring back Timo Perez. Williams this season has repeatedly overpaid for aging mediocrity (Dye, AJ....) and is going to give a few million dollars to the likes of Ozuna and Mike Myers. That adds up -- to more than the cost of signing a decent draft choice. I miss the GM who was willing to trade Aaron Rowand. All of a sudden, when the team sucks, KW decides to become conservative.

 

I agree with the championship core comment. KW always talks about getting championship caliber players. What the heck does that mean. How does one identify a championshiop caliber player. It's a load of crap IMHO. Get guys who can play baseball well and aren't dogs. That defines a lot of players. I can easily now say the Sox core players are '4th place caliber players' because that's where we finished with this championship core.

 

 

 

 

Bob

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Since KW has taken the reigns the only teams in the AL to make fewer playoff appearances are Balt., KC, Tor., TB, and Tex. The Tigers and Mariners have both made the same amount. Maybe its unfair to say he took over a 94 win team so he should do better, but its not like he had to overlook a total rebuild. He did win with a lot of inherited pieces. The leash should be short. Very short.

 

He's a proven winner and you know it.

[Dick Allen]

What I don't understand is why 2007 is a fluke year. The White Sox have won the WS exactly 1 time the last 90 years. Is it possible that was the fluke season?

Edited October 2, 2007 by Dick Allen

[gosox41]

What I don't understand is why 2007 is a fluke year. The White Sox have one the WS exactly 1 time the las 90 years. Is it possible that was the fluke season?

 

 

That's going to get some people riled up.

 

I see where you're going. The Sox had 1.5 good years in the past 3, and the 3 good halves of baseball all happened together while the lastyear and a half has been torture.

 

 

Bob

[NorthSideSox72]

So you see major changes on the horizon. It's goin to be awfully hard to do that with the payroll where it's at right now.

Bob

That is in fact one of the reasons that major changes will have to happen.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

I am just happy they won in 2005 because there's a lot of trouble ahead, especially since we're keeping the core of this aging, one-dimensional offense.

[CanOfCorn]

That's going to get some people riled up.

 

I see where you're going. The Sox had 1.5 good years in the past 3, and the 3 good halves of baseball all happened together while the lastyear and a half has been torture.

Bob

 

That's very true, but very short-sighted. Look at Detroit this year. they had 2006 white Sox syndrome. The Sox have been competitive, frustrating, but competitive for the last 10 or so years. I think that's a pretty good run. Of course, you can argue that the AL Central wasn't good. Fine. There's always an argument for and against in baseball and that's what makes it fun.

 

But, to write off a year before the year has even started is silly and short-sighted.