Am I missing something???

[Soxfest]

From Sun-Times 10-2-07

 

Ken Williams is not always the easiest person to read.

 

When asked about the seemingly monumental task of turning a 90-loss team back into a contender in just four months, the White Sox general manager displayed a coolness not seen since Billy Dee Williams was doing Colt 45 commercials.

 

''Not as busy as one may think for a fourth-place club,'' Williams said of his upcoming winter.

 

 

Team played terrible in 2007 and he starts by saying he might not be that busy? KW do not let your smugness get the best of you AGAIN!

Edited October 2, 2007 by Soxfest

[Yossarian]

I believe this is a one year fluke

Like someone else said, perhaps 05 was the one in 90 year fluke. More than that, the Sox have been wretched for a year and a half now. Also, take away that "fluke" 05 year and the Sox average 82.5 wins under KW. Include 05, and it's a shade under 85.

 

[LVSoxFan]

Like someone else said, perhaps 05 was the one in 90 year fluke. More than that, the Sox have been wretched for a year and a half now. Also, take away that "fluke" 05 year and the Sox average 82.5 wins under KW. Include 05, and it's a shade under 85.

 

I can't disagree with this. The only thing different about the last year and a half is we're not even in the running near the end. I'm used to being in at least second, but these distant third/fourth place finishes are relatively new.

 

But yes I'm starting to wonder if '05 was just a perfect storm that we won't see again necessarily in our lifetimes.

 

And as much as I love some of the "core" (Buehrle, Konerko, Jenks, Crede) I fail to see how this older, slow team is going to turn it around in 2008.

 

And also the seemingly paradoxical notion that: we won '05 with speed and defense and pitching and lots of smallball/clutch/situational hitting, stealing, bunting.

 

There has been little to none of that for a year and a half year. HELLO? This ain't exactly a mystery, folks.

 

Our win Saturday night was textbook smallball at the end and a sad reminder of what we once were.

 

[iamshack]

What I don't understand is why 2007 is a fluke year. The White Sox have won the WS exactly 1 time the last 90 years. Is it possible that was the fluke season?

 

Sometimes I think you just woke up from a coma or were born yesterday or just moved back to Chicago after exploring the Arctic for 50 years. I suppose you find it odd that the Bears cannot seem to find a good quarterback either. I understand that Kenny should not get a lifetime pass or anything here, but he brought us the only WS in the last 90 years, as you pointed out. And yet, you are calling for his dismissal 2 seasons removed from that. I just don't understand that. I always thought you should try and reward success, especially after it has been absent for so long...

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Sometimes I think you just woke up from a coma or were born yesterday or just moved back to Chicago after exploring the Arctic for 50 years. I suppose you find it odd that the Bears cannot seem to find a good quarterback either. I understand that Kenny should not get a lifetime pass or anything here, but he brought us the only WS in the last 90 years, as you pointed out. And yet, you are calling for his dismissal 2 seasons removed from that. I just don't understand that. I always thought you should try and reward success, especially after it has been absent for so long...

He's made the playoffs 1 out of 7 years. A lot of teams have done that. I know you will say but most of those teams didn't win, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. You make it, you can win. The GMs job is to get his team into a position to win. Is Walt Jockety a genius because he put together an 83 win team that won in the playoffs, but Terry Ryan or Billy Bean stupid because their teams make the playoffs constantly but don't do anything in them? If you say yes, I disagree. Was it Jim Hendry's doing that the Cubs choked away a WS berth a couple of years ago? Was it KW's will that made a ball go right through Tony G's legs? KW has the most to play with in the AL Central division. He had a golden opportunity to capitalize on it, and make it grow even more, but his stubborness has made the team plummet to depths not seen since Larry Himes was hired to rebuild a broken franchise. BTW, I don't think I'm the only one who finds it odd the Bears cannot find a good QB. In fact, I would bet most people who watch football find it odd that this franchise lines up the crap it lines up behind center every damn week, every damn year.

[Gregory Pratt]

He's made the playoffs 1 out of 7 years. A lot of teams have done that. I know you will say but most of those teams didn't win, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. You make it, you can win. The GMs job is to get his team into a position to win. Is Walt Jockety a genius because he put together an 83 win team that won in the playoffs, but Terry Ryan or Billy Bean stupid because their teams make the playoffs constantly but don't do anything in them? If you say yes, I disagree. Was it Jim Hendry's doing that the Cubs choked away a WS berth a couple of years ago? Was it KW's will that made a ball go right through Tony G's legs? KW has the most to play with in the AL Central division. He had a golden opportunity to capitalize on it, and make it grow even more, but his stubborness has made the team plummet to depths not seen since Larry Himes was hired to rebuild a broken franchise. BTW, I don't think I'm the only one who finds it odd the Bears cannot find a good QB. In fact, I would bet most people who watch football find it odd that this franchise lines up the crap it lines up behind center every damn week, every damn year.

 

Kenny Williams is more Bill Bavasi than Walt Jocketty, that's for sure.

[Yossarian]

How long are you going to reward him? Is once every 90 years or so good enough for some of you? Why not strive for sustained excellence? I'm glad I lived long enough to see the Sox win. I hope the younger generation, which dominates this board doesn't have to wait so long for the next championship.

[Balta1701]

How long are you going to reward him? Is once every 90 years or so good enough for some of you? Why not strive for sustained excellence? I'm glad I lived long enough to see the Sox win. I hope the younger generation, which dominates this board doesn't have to wait so long for the next championship.

There's nothing wrong with sustained excellence, just as there's nothing wrong with 1, or even maybe 2 down years depending on how things look.

 

KW shouldn't be rewarded with a lifetime contract for 1 series win in 05, and KW shouldn't be fired for 1 down season in 07. If this isn't looking upwards at the end of 08, we'll talk. If it stagnates for more than 2 years, it'll be time for a change.

[29andPoplar]

Why not strive for sustained excellence?

 

They are. This is not the Pirates or the Royals.

 

Striving for and accomplishing are two different things though. Practically every team in baseball will tell you that.

 

[Gregory Pratt]

Kenny Williams is more Brian Sabean than Bill Bavasi and more Bill Bavasi than Walt Jocketty.

[Yossarian]

They are. This is not the Pirates or the Royals.

 

Striving for and accomplishing are two different things though. Practically every team in baseball will tell you that.

Too bad for the Pirates and the Royals. They have some good building blocks, but ownership is content to pocket their luxury tax money and screw their fans. I'd like to have some of the players on the Pirates and Royals and see what our strivers for excellence could do with them. I continually underestimate the deep reservoir of good will possessed by our GM and Manager. I hope both of them shut me up next year, and the year after that. I want the Sox to win more than I want to be right, but I'll still call it like I see it. I'm not crazy about what I see now, let's see what Kenny has up his sleeve this winter.

 

[Balta1701]

Too bad for the Pirates and the Royals. They have some good building blocks, but ownership is content to pocket their luxury tax money and screw their fans. I'd like to have some of the players on the Pirates and Royals and see what our strivers for excellence could do with them. I continually underestimate the deep reservoir of good will possessed by our GM and Manager. I hope both of them shut me up next year, and the year after that. I want the Sox to win more than I want to be right, but I'll still call it like I see it. I'm not crazy about what I see now, let's see what Kenny has up his sleeve this winter.

And that is entirely the right perspective on this organization I believe. Things went haywire this year. Even things I thought would work blew up on us. That can not become a trend.

[iamshack]

He's made the playoffs 1 out of 7 years. A lot of teams have done that. I know you will say but most of those teams didn't win, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. You make it, you can win. The GMs job is to get his team into a position to win. Is Walt Jockety a genius because he put together an 83 win team that won in the playoffs, but Terry Ryan or Billy Bean stupid because their teams make the playoffs constantly but don't do anything in them? If you say yes, I disagree. Was it Jim Hendry's doing that the Cubs choked away a WS berth a couple of years ago? Was it KW's will that made a ball go right through Tony G's legs? KW has the most to play with in the AL Central division. He had a golden opportunity to capitalize on it, and make it grow even more, but his stubborness has made the team plummet to depths not seen since Larry Himes was hired to rebuild a broken franchise. BTW, I don't think I'm the only one who finds it odd the Bears cannot find a good QB. In fact, I would bet most people who watch football find it odd that this franchise lines up the crap it lines up behind center every damn week, every damn year.

 

So should we call for Billy Beane's head now then?

Walt Jocketty's because he could not even make the playoffs in the weakest division in baseball?

Terry Ryan's (I know he has stepped down) because they never won anything with the best pitcher in baseball for the past 3 seasons?

Dave Dombrowski because the Tigers collapsed this year even worse than the Sox last year?

Omar Minaya because of the collapse?

 

I mean come on. Kenny put together an awesome team last year that ran out of gas. He put together what many of us thought was another very competitive team this season before they just crapped the field. I'm giving him another 2 years at least, and I would only fire him then if the team sucked until then as it has now. I believe in his philosophies, which consider both the present as well as long term of this organization.

 

I know this is not an argument I can win with you DA, so there is no reason for either of us to go back and forth all day. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

[iamshack]

Kenny Williams is more Brian Sabean than Bill Bavasi and more Bill Bavasi than Walt Jocketty.

 

And you are more Bill Maher than Abraham Lincoln. You know everything and have something to say about everything. Quite easy when you are not ever held accountable.

[LVSoxFan]

Kenny Wannestadt gets one more year from me. Then I joint the pitchfork-and-torch mob outside the cell.

[iamshack]

And that is entirely the right perspective on this organization I believe. Things went haywire this year. Even things I thought would work blew up on us. That can not become a trend.

 

Hah, just got a kick out of this...

[RockRaines]

And you are more Bill Maher than Abraham Lincoln. You know everything and have something to say about everything. Quite easy when you are not ever held accountable.

He's a teenager, it comes with the territory.

[Gregory Pratt]

And you are more Bill Maher than Abraham Lincoln. You know everything and have something to say about everything. Quite easy when you are not ever held accountable.

 

I happen to enjoy Bill Maher, but I'm glad not to be like Abraham Lincoln in your book, although you don't know me enough to compare me to either and it's a rather ridiculous knock from you as I was comparing General Managers to General Managers and you have compared me to a comedian and an American President, which is despite the film Man of the Year a lot like comparing apples to oranges. See, I am a funny guy, and I was elected President of SoxTalk, so I can forgive you for the comparison but perhaps you should make a more valid comparison. But on a more serious note, you know that I'm critical of a baseball organization with a history of deserving criticism, like when the guy in your signature talks about duck farts, makes excuses for everybody on the White Sox, fires Tony LaRussa and babbles about "Nintendo Stuff," or when we make terrible scouting decisions, or when we refuse to go over slot, count on Andrew Sisco to be good in our bullpen and sign AJ Pierzynski to a premature, unnecessary extension. I could go on forever, too, with things about ownership (moving to Cable in the 80s being the first, I suppose, leading to the Strike and the White Flag and that monstrosity we called Comiskey Park II), but we'll leave it at that for now.

 

Now what should I be held accountable for? I'm not the person who said that Nick Masset had a great fastball or that Gavin Floyd was still a "top prospect" or that it would be a good idea to compile wild flamethrowers and put them into the bullpen. I don't sit here and slander people. I've never burned down a village. What, pray tell, should I be "accountable" for? I'm not more "unaccountable" for my thoughts here than you but why should I be held accountable for my thoughts unless I'm, say, thinking that the White Sox should be contracted (which, of course, I don't). I just don't understand what you're talking about, so let's try and get this striaght. You don't like the criticism I have of Kenny Williams, which is a criticism I think is right on -- he is more like Bill Bavasi than any of the good-to-great GMs in the game, so I am like Bill Maher. Gotcha.

 

And I take your knock as a badge of honor from the guy who has Ken the Hawk Harrelson in his signature. I don't ever want to be a "homer" except when I'm at the ballpark watching the game and even that is subject to conditions (like when we should lose for Pedro).

 

He's a teenager, it comes with the territory.

 

Says the guy who childishly insists that Lovie Smith is a "top two" coach in all of football. But really, I'm a College student and I'm very intelligent by almost all accounts. Who cares about that part, though, when you've got to defend yo man?

[gosox41]

That is in fact one of the reasons that major changes will have to happen.

 

 

But who do you think the Sox will dump of those players under contact for next season. Garland is a given. Maybe Contreras but they may have to take on some salary or eat some of his to trade him. Dye, Buehrle, & Thome all have No Trade clauses. Right now Crede is untradeable (I'm assuming the Sox bring him back.)

 

Sure the Sox may be able to dump Cintron and McDougal and Hall but hey won't get much if anything for them. Getting rid of all 3 means we're going to see more A-Gon and a crappy hitting back up catcher. McDougal isn't a major loss.

 

 

 

Bob

[gosox41]

That's very true, but very short-sighted. Look at Detroit this year. they had 2006 white Sox syndrome. The Sox have been competitive, frustrating, but competitive for the last 10 or so years. I think that's a pretty good run. Of course, you can argue that the AL Central wasn't good. Fine. There's always an argument for and against in baseball and that's what makes it fun.

 

But, to write off a year before the year has even started is silly and short-sighted.

 

 

It may be, but I see trouble brewing and can't help but point it out.

 

I should amend all these posts with a footnote that says if the Sox jack up their payroll for 2008 they will contend.

 

 

 

Bob

[gosox41]

He's made the playoffs 1 out of 7 years. A lot of teams have done that. I know you will say but most of those teams didn't win, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. You make it, you can win. The GMs job is to get his team into a position to win. Is Walt Jockety a genius because he put together an 83 win team that won in the playoffs, but Terry Ryan or Billy Bean stupid because their teams make the playoffs constantly but don't do anything in them? If you say yes, I disagree. Was it Jim Hendry's doing that the Cubs choked away a WS berth a couple of years ago? Was it KW's will that made a ball go right through Tony G's legs? KW has the most to play with in the AL Central division. He had a golden opportunity to capitalize on it, and make it grow even more, but his stubborness has made the team plummet to depths not seen since Larry Himes was hired to rebuild a broken franchise. BTW, I don't think I'm the only one who finds it odd the Bears cannot find a good QB. In fact, I would bet most people who watch football find it odd that this franchise lines up the crap it lines up behind center every damn week, every damn year.

 

 

Well said. The fact is if Terry Ryan came out tomorrow and said he wants to be the GM for the Sox everyone here who knows a thing or two about baseball would be screaming for him to be hired. Why? How many championships has he won? I'd say the same thing for Beane but a lot of people don't like him because if his ego. He's still a good GM.

 

KW gets one more year. If he finishes below .500 with a $100 mill payroll he needs to be fired. I don't know how any fan can be satisified with 2 sub .500 finishes with the leagues 5th highest payroll. That is so Cubs.

 

The honeymoon has to end sometime for KW, and his decision to stick with an aging expensive club shortens that leash dramatically then if he decided to rebuild.

 

 

 

 

Bob

 

[greg775]

I don't know if Williams is so stubborn.

He thought he had a plan to improve the bullpen obviously with these tall

relievers and that plan failed miserably.

He thought Erstad had pop left.

Erstad is no good.

But why is that stubborn.

He miscalculated on Hall, who sucks.

So why is he stubborn?

He may be dumb but not so stubborn.

 

[dmbjeff]

It is going to be a tough semi-rebuild for KW. He is right that we have pieces in place and it is not a complete retooling.

 

He has to hope that #1, all the "good pieces" he has offensively, PK,Thome,Dye,AJ can all bounce back and have above average years. Adding Hunter,Furcal and whoever else won't help if those "good pieces" don't get their ass in gear.

 

#2,he needs to figure out a way to trim payroll from the pitching staff,to afford the free agents we desire. They have way too much of their $100 mil invested in JG,MB,Count and Javy. Thus Garland and or Count will be traded. We then need one or two of our young pitchings prospects to come through. Is Floyd/Gio/Broadway/Danks/Egbert/Haeger up to the task? Is there a cheaper alternative free agent wise than Garland or Contreras, while still going out every 5th day and being at least average?

 

#3, that bullpen needs serious help. Only problem with bullpens, is that year to year it really is a crap shoot. '05 we have the best bullpen and one year later, our main setup guys turn to s***. It happens with nearly every team, you just never know what you are gonna get from that spot.

 

#4,which most people say is most important, is deciding and finding who will fill the following positions-CF,2B,SS,3B,LF

 

CF-Will we sign Hunter,Rowand,Cameron, Jones? Or is Jerry Owens capable of handling the job defensively and be a solid leadoff hitter? He certainly is cheaper and provides great speed, one of Ozzie's great desires.

 

2B-Richar, is he really the answer? I just have a such a hard time giving a full time job to guys who havent proved anything. Richar was bad in his 2 month audition. Can we let him get more seasoned at AAA and find a stopgap? Makes me sick thinking that our 2 middle infielders could hit a .230 each again. Which brings us to...

 

SS-Juan Uribe. Oh how he makes me sick. He just gets worse and worse with no signs of coming close to turning it around. Unfortunately, our lack of minor league system provides us with no SS even coming close to take over. So we need to fill this via free agency or a trade. The Angels have great SS depth in their system, so Orlando Cabrera could be had. Rumors have circulated over Renteria, Furcal as well. The free agent list is just bad. Eckstein and Vizquel will not help and are barely an improvement over Juan.

 

LF,3B-We put Josh Fields in left this year with hopes of Crede returning. But is that wise to gamble on Crede,coming back and being close to his old self? Would it make more sense to have Owens in LF(cheap speedy leadoff guy) and Fields at 3B(basically same numbers Crede can put up and cheap) and letting an injury prone Crede just walk? Then we have more money to persue Hunter for CF, more money for bullpen help,being able to trade Garland for a SS who is proven and will undoubtedly have a big salary.

 

Gives me a headache just thinking about all the possibilities. Good luck KW, you will need it.

[NorthSideSox72]

But who do you think the Sox will dump of those players under contact for next season. Garland is a given. Maybe Contreras but they may have to take on some salary or eat some of his to trade him. Dye, Buehrle, & Thome all have No Trade clauses. Right now Crede is untradeable (I'm assuming the Sox bring him back.)

 

Sure the Sox may be able to dump Cintron and McDougal and Hall but hey won't get much if anything for them. Getting rid of all 3 means we're going to see more A-Gon and a crappy hitting back up catcher. McDougal isn't a major loss.

Bob

Players likely to be traded, or have their options not picked up, or not re-signed, for 2008 (and their 2008 salaries):

 

Garland ($12M)

Uribe ($5M option)

Podsednik (~$3M or so)

 

That is about $20M right there. Now add players who already dropped off payroll from 2007:

 

Mack ($2.75M)

Gooch ($3.25M)

 

Add that $6M and you already have $26M in flexibility . Then a few more players, at least some of which might go too:

 

Contreras ($10M)

Crede (~$6M)

Erstad ($3.5M option)

MacD ($2M)

Thornton ($875k)

 

So you've got between $26M and $48M of flexibility, depending on who from that last list might leave. That's a pretty large amount of money to play with, assuming the payroll will be allowed to stay at similar levels, with the built-in increases coming up.

 

[iamshack]

I happen to enjoy Bill Maher, but I'm glad not to be like Abraham Lincoln in your book, although you don't know me enough to compare me to either and it's a rather ridiculous knock from you as I was comparing General Managers to General Managers and you have compared me to a comedian and an American President, which is despite the film Man of the Year a lot like comparing apples to oranges. See, I am a funny guy, and I was elected President of SoxTalk, so I can forgive you for the comparison but perhaps you should make a more valid comparison. But on a more serious note, you know that I'm critical of a baseball organization with a history of deserving criticism, like when the guy in your signature talks about duck farts, makes excuses for everybody on the White Sox, fires Tony LaRussa and babbles about "Nintendo Stuff," or when we make terrible scouting decisions, or when we refuse to go over slot, count on Andrew Sisco to be good in our bullpen and sign AJ Pierzynski to a premature, unnecessary extension. I could go on forever, too, with things about ownership (moving to Cable in the 80s being the first, I suppose, leading to the Strike and the White Flag and that monstrosity we called Comiskey Park II), but we'll leave it at that for now.

 

Now what should I be held accountable for? I'm not the person who said that Nick Masset had a great fastball or that Gavin Floyd was still a "top prospect" or that it would be a good idea to compile wild flamethrowers and put them into the bullpen. I don't sit here and slander people. I've never burned down a village. What, pray tell, should I be "accountable" for? I'm not more "unaccountable" for my thoughts here than you but why should I be held accountable for my thoughts unless I'm, say, thinking that the White Sox should be contracted (which, of course, I don't). I just don't understand what you're talking about, so let's try and get this striaght. You don't like the criticism I have of Kenny Williams, which is a criticism I think is right on -- he is more like Bill Bavasi than any of the good-to-great GMs in the game, so I am like Bill Maher. Gotcha.

 

And I take your knock as a badge of honor from the guy who has Ken the Hawk Harrelson in his signature. I don't ever want to be a "homer" except when I'm at the ballpark watching the game and even that is subject to conditions (like when we should lose for Pedro).

 

See, you are entirely missing the point.

 

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I can speak for myself. I'm not claiming the White Sox as an organization are infallible. Nor am I claiming they have not made some poor decisions and had some things blow up in their faces. I didn't care for the Pierzynski extension either. I didn't like signing Darin Erstad last season. I didn't particularly care even for resinging Dye.

 

But the point is not to say that the White Sox are infallible. And the point is not to continuosly and almost monotonously and tediously hammer the organization, especially Kenny Williams for everything that has not gone correctly over his tenure. Believe me, most of the people who post on this forum are avid White Sox fans. We all watch and attend games, and we have a passion for the team that runs deep enough that we actually have a desire to come here and post about the team. So there is no need for YOU to consider yourself as the ultimate conveyor of all things unfortunate or mistake-laden to the rest of the board. WE see it ourselves. We understand it ourselves. And yet, you keep hammering and hammering away as if you are trying to win some election for John Schulerholz for GM of the Century or something.

 

My attitude towards this organization is one of understanding and patience. And I think most fans of Chicago baseball teams have grown to realize that if you don't take that understanding, you will probably go insane or kill yourself. But another reason for that attitude, which I have grown to learn and accept over the past 10-15 years of my life, is that WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE FULL KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACTS AND THE SITUATION, it's pretty useless and ignorant to spend your days criticizing. You criticized me, Greg, for comparing you to someone else when "I don't know you." However, you sit here and criticize KW, and JR, and the entire organization despite the fact that your actual knowledge of the facts and of the people involved in absolutely miniscule. I understand people have a right to criticize, or to vent or whatever. But I have to laugh when you start comparing Kenny Williams to other GM's when you know jack s*** about any of them. And it boggles my mind when people start to believe that they are all more intelligent than the people that are in place.

 

I guess it boils down to this: Kenny played the game, he has a Stanford education, he's been on the job for several years now. I trust that he will put this organization in the best possible place to win, both today, and in 3 years from now. I acknowledge that he is human and makes mistakes. I acknowledge that his scouts sometimes make mistakes. But what I also acknowledge, and what you apparently FAIL to acknowledge, is that sometimes things happen that are beyond peoples' control. You have bad luck. You have injuries. You have guys that underperform. You have guys that struggle because their mind is elsewhere- dealing with personal problems or something. And when those things happen, sometimes you just have to accept that and move on, instead of ALWAYS looking for someone to blame. Or someone's head to roll. Sometimes stuff just happens and things don't work out.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking anyone, especially not you, to accept sustained failure. But we have not experienced sustained failure, nothing close to it. So I'm going to trust that the man and his staff know what they are doing. Whereas you, fully believe they do not (based on what?), and that perhaps someone as qualified as yourself should be in charge.

 

As for you being accountable, that is the entire point. You are not accountable. And when one is not accountable, it's entirely simple to criticize, to claim you know the correct answers, to be funny, as you say. You can say whatever it is you like because you are not accountable. Under no circumstances will all the errors you have made in the past in your infinite wisdom come back to bite you in the ass. And yet, the reason you are able to constantly spew venom towards the organization is because they are held accountable. Because KW is accountable. He constantly accepts accountability, and acknowledges he has a job to do and if he does not produce results, he will be out of that job. When it comes to myself, I am not accountable on this message board either. However, I temper my opinions and my comments with exactly that knowledge- that hindsight is 20/20, that things happen which are outside of peoples' control, etc. My comments are usually balanced and patient, and I try to be understanding of the things because I realize that I am not privy to 99% of what Kenny is. Therefore, my opinions are unqualified and without scienter.

 

I guess my point in all this, is why put yourself through all the trouble, Greg? If the organization is truly run by a bunch of ignorant fools, why not cut bait and become a full-time Braves fan? You already are a full-time Schulerholz fan. So how much more effort would you really need to expend? Clearly I am not suggesting that as a fan you are not allowed to criticize the organization. But when that is what you solely do, the point of your fandom seems somewhat lost on me.