WHITESOXRANDY Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Uribe might get better. Eckstein is going straight down hill. He's too old. He can't steal bases anymore, is getting injury prone and his defense has gone down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 Eckstein has to wind up to throw the ball to first base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 If Omar Vizquel would come for about 2M for 1 season, I'm going down that route. Yes he's very old, and yes he just had his worst offensive season on record. BUT, his RZR was around .888, Uribe's was at .797 this season, that shows the difference the defense b/w the 2. And he will give you a better OBP down the order, which IMHO is more important than the .670 or so OPS that Uribe will give you with around a .260 OBP. Making this move would save the White Sox 3M from picking up Uribe's option, and that money could become very handy in signing a reliever, a bench guy, or towards signing a Rowand or Hunter. It's all good to say, Juan should be motivated because it's a contract year etc. Well it was basically a contract year for him this season, and he's regressed offensively for the past 4 seasons with the White Sox. He's not getting any better in my mind, and his defense was the worst we've seen since he's been here. To pay him more money than we've paid him over the past 3 seasons, well that's not good enough. Of course if we traded for Rafael Furcal, well problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 We just went 72 and 90....why do we need to sign a dinosaur to a one year deal? I'd rather have Andy Gonzalez at SS next year than Vizquel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 3, 2007 -> 04:00 PM) I'd let Eckstein play 2nd, add Furcal and give Richar a steady dose of at bats in a platoon/developmental type role. It gives you two vets that are solid and Eckstein at 2nd would be very strong defensively, imo. Plus I think you could get Eckstein for a short term deal which means he would walk after a year and you'd hope you would sign Furcal to an extension (with Richar finally sliding in as the starter). Note: This is if the White Sox do not believe Richar is quite ready. Either way I'd prefer Eckstein over Uribe, but I would really have zero problem with Eckstein being one of the top 2 hitters and playing 2nd with Furcal being the other. It gives you a good OBP, good speed, and that defensive duo would be very good. Plus Furcal has pretty solid pop for a top of the order hitter. Its older than I would like, but it would be pretty damn solid. If financial issues were a worry or if Kenny wanted to get younger, he could always move Konerko for a couple young prospects, one of which could play center (or he could move Konerko and use a chunk of that money earmarked for him on Andruw Jones who would replace Paulie in the lineup and play a premium defensive position). You than use Konerko to acquire (for the most part) young pitching prospects or position prospects that you could use to replace Garland/Contreras (as if you moved those two, plus Paulie and added Jones/Furcal/Eckstein and numerous prospects I think you'd be in pretty good shape). Furcal Eckstein Dye Thome Jones AJP Crede Fields * Insert First Baseman Here (you could even put Fields here and insert in a young prospect which was acquired...or if the move was with the Angels Casey Kochman would go where AJP with Crede being by Kochman and than AJP and than Fields). That lineup would have massive power, high strikeouts (Thome/Fields/Jones) but would also be pretty solid defensively. Why exactly would Eckstein sign a one-year deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 4, 2007 -> 09:48 AM) We just went 72 and 90....why do we need to sign a dinosaur to a one year deal? I'd rather have Andy Gonzalez at SS next year than Vizquel. Because IMHO, if KW wants to win next season, Vizquel will give us a better chance of doing that than Juan Uribe. We're not going into a major rebuilding phase, hence it's stupid to say Andy Gonzalez will be our SS next season, when he frankly shouldn't be in the majors. Besides, if the Sox say picked up a young SS in a deal for Garland in the off-season, they could use him in 2009, or in 2008 if Vizquel fails to improve offensively. I honestly don't think Juan Uribe will put up an OPS better than .650 next season. Is it worth paying 5M for that kind of production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Picking up Uribe's $5M option is not the only way to bring him back. You use the $300K buyout then offer him a 1 year deal worth $1.7M + a s*** load of offensive incentives and a $5M-$6M team option for 2009 (along with a $500K buyout). He gets $2.5M guaranteed in the deal with incentives that can add on another $3M and he gets another contract year to prove he's worthwhile long term investment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 3, 2007 -> 07:41 PM) Picking up Uribe's $5M option is not the only way to bring him back. You use the $300K buyout then offer him a 1 year deal worth $1.7M + a s*** load of offensive incentives and a $5M-$6M team option for 2009 (along with a $500K buyout). He gets $2.5M guaranteed in the deal with incentives that can add on another $3M and he gets another contract year to prove he's worthwhile long term investment.. I think as a Plan D (after Furcal, Renteria and a couple other possibilities), that's not a bad idea at all. I don't think another team will pick him up for much more than that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 3, 2007 -> 07:41 PM) Picking up Uribe's $5M option is not the only way to bring him back. You use the $300K buyout then offer him a 1 year deal worth $1.7M + a s*** load of offensive incentives and a $5M-$6M team option for 2009 (along with a $500K buyout). He gets $2.5M guaranteed in the deal with incentives that can add on another $3M and he gets another contract year to prove he's worthwhile long term investment.. I thought offensive incentives were not allowed in major league baseball contacts. Only games played, starts, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaCWS Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 3, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) where is the neither button. I'm with you. Weren't we talking to the Angels last year about Garland? I would like to keep Garland if possible, but if we're going to trade him, why not ask for Aybar or Izturis, plus something else (Santana? Kendry Morales?) from LAA? Just throwing it out there. I definitely don't want Eckstein on this team, and would rather not see Uribe back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Oct 4, 2007 -> 10:41 AM) Picking up Uribe's $5M option is not the only way to bring him back. You use the $300K buyout then offer him a 1 year deal worth $1.7M + a s*** load of offensive incentives and a $5M-$6M team option for 2009 (along with a $500K buyout). He gets $2.5M guaranteed in the deal with incentives that can add on another $3M and he gets another contract year to prove he's worthwhile long term investment.. Hey if you can sign him for that, then by all means do it. However, I'd think some other team would other him more than that, because the FA market for SS's is so bad, and Uribe usually gives you good defense and he does have that scary word in "potential". If Eckstein left the Cards for instance, they would possibly target Uribe as a replacement. But the way KW was talking, I'm thinking if he's coming back, it's for the 5M guaranteed, and I think that's really a big overpayment. Vizquel for 2M > Uribe for 5M, IMHO, but if can sign Uribe for less, then do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 death please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 (edited) Eckstein was above-average in the AL--putting up numbers to finish 4th in Rookie of the Year balloting in 2001 and 11th in MVP voting in 2002, following with two average years. 2x NL All-Star. IMO, he and Edgar Renteria are two guys who benefit from playing in the National League, two guys who had trouble hitting AL pitching. Upside, he's not the human corkscrew 0-for-Juan is, but with no power. I'm interested, but cautiously optimistic. Edited October 4, 2007 by Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsox Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 This one's easy, Uribe. His defense is essential with a pitching staff that puts a ton of balls in play. And he has some power at the plate with 20HRs. Eckstein's arm and range stinks and for a leadoff man, 24 walks is absolutely pathetic (Uribe had more walks than he did!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan3530 Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 where are the furcal/renteria/greene buttons??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Both would be immensely frustrating to watch. Seeing Eckstein's rainbows over to first base is almost unbearable. We should either go big at SS (Tejada, Furcal, Renteria) or we go very small. There's no one in the middle worth getting for anything more than $1-2 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I'd rather have Uribe. Eckstein's D is not good....Ozzie has affirmatively debased defense for the last 2 seasons, but hopefully not to this extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxrd5 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I just voted for Uribe, someone help me wash the filth off of my body. Seriously, is death an option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I vote for neither. I picked Eckstein because I am sick of Juan Uribe...I call Juan "the lizard' because he runs like one. So to those who read this, if you see me refer to "the lizard" on this board...You know who it is. I think there are better ways to waste money. I'd rather take a risk on Caesar Izturis, Nioke or Alexi Ramirez. I'd imagine they'd be cheaper and they have higher upsides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I could not vote. Simply couldn't choose. Both are repulsive in their own special way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Sox Fan Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 ARod! If not, go with Uribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 I'll take one more year of Uribe and then either somebody better through FA or a prospect with upside thereafter. Eckstein and Vizquel are both going to cost more and neither is a significant upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted October 9, 2007 Share Posted October 9, 2007 If Vizquel and Uribe cost similar, go with Vizquel. It's at the point with Juan, that pretty much any change is good change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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