2007-2008 NHL Catch All Thread

[CWSGuy406]

undersized, good skater.... he plays alot like Hendry, but I think Hendry has better vision and can skate a little bit better.

 

The word I've read with Yall-mer-son is "raw". Some people even questioned why he was in the A already, so he appears to be well ahead of the curve.

 

And someone please tell me why the Hawks need both a top six winger and a top six defenseman just to 'compete for a playoff spot' next year? The Hawks competing for a playoff spot this year -- sure, they're going to come up short, but they've been completely ravaged by injuries this season. The only other team (I'm sure there are others who've had it bad, mind you, but nowhere near as bad as the Hawks) I can think of is Colorado, who basically had their whole first line decimated for a string of games.

 

Just reiterrating -- that's a ridiculous statement to make. If Tallon lands a legit top-six winger as well as Campbell (without losing anyone extremely crucial from this year's squad), I'd say the Hawks move into that middle tier of playoff teams. As I see it, I don't think the Hawks are over any barrell to land a top defenseman -- I'd be perfectly content going into camp with Keith, Seabrook, Wisniewski, Sopel, Hjalmerson, Barker and Hendry, with the Hawks perhaps bringing in another Sopel-type to compete with Hjalm and Hendry for the sixth spot.

 

In any case, though, Tallon's got a big summer ahead. He's got a bunch of second-line/third-line types who he needs to find spots for. The first thing I'd like to see him do is trade Lang somewhere -- not because I don't like Lang. People have called him lazy this year... whatever. That's what he was in Detroit, too, you should've expected that. He's gonna end up with 20 goals and better than 50 points, that's perfectly acceptable production for what he is being paid -- and put Bolland on the second line, creating a third-line spot for Kontiola. After that, he's got to sort through the keepers. As I see it, these guys are here next season (these are in no way 'first' or second lines, either -- I'm just getting the guys down):

 

Toews - Kane - Sharp

Byfuglien - Bolland - Ladd

Adams - Burish - Eager/Dowell

 

You have a lot of guys vying for those three spots. Skille should probably be up here -- he doesn't need longer than a year in the A. I left off Havlat, but I'd probably keep him as well -- if you traded him you wouldn't get acceptable value in return and he'll be in a contract year coming off of shoulder surgery. I'd hope he has a big year and cut bait with him either at the deadline or just let him walk as a FA. There's also Jason Williams who's pretty good on the PP. There's also Kontiola and Versteeg as two more guys who have earned a shot at staying up here.

 

Oh yeah, and then there's the draft -- it's supposed to be very deep, so the Hawks look well positioned to add another top prospect.

 

Boy am I winded after this post. Sorry for the length, fellas.

 

[MurcieOne]

The word I've read with Yall-mer-son is "raw". Some people even questioned why he was in the A already, so he appears to be well ahead of the curve.

 

And someone please tell me why the Hawks need both a top six winger and a top six defenseman just to 'compete for a playoff spot' next year? The Hawks competing for a playoff spot this year -- sure, they're going to come up short, but they've been completely ravaged by injuries this season. The only other team (I'm sure there are others who've had it bad, mind you, but nowhere near as bad as the Hawks) I can think of is Colorado, who basically had their whole first line decimated for a string of games.

 

Just reiterrating -- that's a ridiculous statement to make. If Tallon lands a legit top-six winger as well as Campbell (without losing anyone extremely crucial from this year's squad), I'd say the Hawks move into that middle tier of playoff teams. As I see it, I don't think the Hawks are over any barrell to land a top defenseman -- I'd be perfectly content going into camp with Keith, Seabrook, Wisniewski, Sopel, Hjalmerson, Barker and Hendry, with the Hawks perhaps bringing in another Sopel-type to compete with Hjalm and Hendry for the sixth spot.

 

In any case, though, Tallon's got a big summer ahead. He's got a bunch of second-line/third-line types who he needs to find spots for. The first thing I'd like to see him do is trade Lang somewhere -- not because I don't like Lang. People have called him lazy this year... whatever. That's what he was in Detroit, too, you should've expected that. He's gonna end up with 20 goals and better than 50 points, that's perfectly acceptable production for what he is being paid -- and put Bolland on the second line, creating a third-line spot for Kontiola. After that, he's got to sort through the keepers. As I see it, these guys are here next season (these are in no way 'first' or second lines, either -- I'm just getting the guys down):

 

Toews - Kane - Sharp

Byfuglien - Bolland - Ladd

Adams - Burish - Eager/Dowell

 

You have a lot of guys vying for those three spots. Skille should probably be up here -- he doesn't need longer than a year in the A. I left off Havlat, but I'd probably keep him as well -- if you traded him you wouldn't get acceptable value in return and he'll be in a contract year coming off of shoulder surgery. I'd hope he has a big year and cut bait with him either at the deadline or just let him walk as a FA. There's also Jason Williams who's pretty good on the PP. There's also Kontiola and Versteeg as two more guys who have earned a shot at staying up here.

 

Oh yeah, and then there's the draft -- it's supposed to be very deep, so the Hawks look well positioned to add another top prospect.

 

Boy am I winded after this post. Sorry for the length, fellas.

 

I understand what your saying, and we do have talent on this team already... but this team has relied on "developing" young players for awhile now... and we haven't (see Arnason, Bell, Calder) I think relying on Bolland, Versteeg, and Skille is a recipe for another season of dissapointment.

 

[CWSGuy406]

I understand what your saying, and we do have talent on this team already... but this team has relied on "developing" young players for awhile now... and we haven't (see Arnason, Bell, Calder) I think relying on Bolland, Versteeg, and Skille is a recipe for another season of dissapointment.

 

Really? The situation we're in now is unlike any other situation we've had in the past. We have two bonafied top-six players and we have two bonafied top-four defenseman (not in all the NHL in either case -- just on a 'team'). To compare the two we have now to ABC is rather laughable. If you're comparing the other guys -- the complimentary players like Skille and Bolland -- that comparison isn't apt, either. Arnason, Bell and Calder were asked to be stars on a team. They were pretty decent second and third line players, but they were basically asked to be the three of our best players, and that's not (or wasn't) very fair to them.

 

And we're not "relying" on Bolland, Versteeg and Skille. We're relying on the (afformentioned) Seabrook, Keith, Toews and Kane. If Toews doesn't miss those six weeks, is it really a stretch to think the Hawks would be anywhere from 4-8 points better than where they are now? I'd say the objective now would be finding one more guy who you can count on to net 25 a year.

[DBAHO]

The word I've read with Yall-mer-son is "raw". Some people even questioned why he was in the A already, so he appears to be well ahead of the curve.

 

And someone please tell me why the Hawks need both a top six winger and a top six defenseman just to 'compete for a playoff spot' next year? The Hawks competing for a playoff spot this year -- sure, they're going to come up short, but they've been completely ravaged by injuries this season. The only other team (I'm sure there are others who've had it bad, mind you, but nowhere near as bad as the Hawks) I can think of is Colorado, who basically had their whole first line decimated for a string of games.

 

Just reiterrating -- that's a ridiculous statement to make. If Tallon lands a legit top-six winger as well as Campbell (without losing anyone extremely crucial from this year's squad), I'd say the Hawks move into that middle tier of playoff teams. As I see it, I don't think the Hawks are over any barrell to land a top defenseman -- I'd be perfectly content going into camp with Keith, Seabrook, Wisniewski, Sopel, Hjalmerson, Barker and Hendry, with the Hawks perhaps bringing in another Sopel-type to compete with Hjalm and Hendry for the sixth spot.

 

In any case, though, Tallon's got a big summer ahead. He's got a bunch of second-line/third-line types who he needs to find spots for. The first thing I'd like to see him do is trade Lang somewhere -- not because I don't like Lang. People have called him lazy this year... whatever. That's what he was in Detroit, too, you should've expected that. He's gonna end up with 20 goals and better than 50 points, that's perfectly acceptable production for what he is being paid -- and put Bolland on the second line, creating a third-line spot for Kontiola. After that, he's got to sort through the keepers. As I see it, these guys are here next season (these are in no way 'first' or second lines, either -- I'm just getting the guys down):

 

Toews - Kane - Sharp

Byfuglien - Bolland - Ladd

Adams - Burish - Eager/Dowell

 

You have a lot of guys vying for those three spots. Skille should probably be up here -- he doesn't need longer than a year in the A. I left off Havlat, but I'd probably keep him as well -- if you traded him you wouldn't get acceptable value in return and he'll be in a contract year coming off of shoulder surgery. I'd hope he has a big year and cut bait with him either at the deadline or just let him walk as a FA. There's also Jason Williams who's pretty good on the PP. There's also Kontiola and Versteeg as two more guys who have earned a shot at staying up here.

 

Oh yeah, and then there's the draft -- it's supposed to be very deep, so the Hawks look well positioned to add another top prospect.

 

Boy am I winded after this post. Sorry for the length, fellas.

Competing was probably the wrong word to use. To make the playoffs more likely.

 

Right now, if this team stayed pat, I don't think we'd make the playoffs next season. And I say that because the other teams around us will probably be better etc. and we're always going to have injuries (it's a case of how many).

 

The defence to me has a lot of guys who would be great #3-4 D-Men on a contending team, but they still need that #1 guy. Would a Seabrook or Sopel for example be a top 2 D-Man on most teams in the NHL?

 

Offensively wise with Kane, Toews and Sharp is a pretty good core to build around. Ladd is a wildcard at this stage, and Williams will produce, but he's never been really healthy for the Hawks. I don't think we can depend on anything from Havlat at this stage. Anything we get from him should be a bonus (unfortunately). Other than that, it's guys such as Bolland who will need to develop quickly and prove they can score in the NHL.

[kapkomet]

I 100% agree with this. Right now there are 11 teams in front of the Hawks in the West. Should I expect all those teams to stand pat this summer or just get worse? The majority will get better. As it stands, the Hawks are on the outside looking in.

 

All along I thought this off-season the Hawks needed a #1 D man and a top 6 wing. After the way Keith and Seabrook have played, along with the steady play of Wiz-Sopel-Hendry, I think they could stand pat with the D. I do still think they need an impact wing, ala Hossa. It's impossible and rather dumb to count on Havlat for anything, and Sharp-Toews-Kane alone isn't going to march this team into the playoffs.

 

Oh, and while I really think "toughness" in hockey gets overblown by idiots that just want to see hits, the Hawks have to be one of the softest teams in the league, especially after the departure of Ruutu. It's pretty bad. Burish is a scraper, but doesn't scare anyone, Wiz will drop them every so often, and Buff is invisible at times on ice. Going after a guy like Laraque could do wonders for a lot of players on the Hawks.

I disagree. The 'Hawks don't need any more toughness, they need some OLDER skill players that can show the young guys how to grow up. Richards would have been ideal but I understand why he came to Dallas instead of Chicago. Although, I wouldn't mind seeing a friend of mine in Chicago.

 

 

[MurcieOne]

Really? The situation we're in now is unlike any other situation we've had in the past. We have two bonafied top-six players and we have two bonafied top-four defenseman (not in all the NHL in either case -- just on a 'team'). To compare the two we have now to ABC is rather laughable. If you're comparing the other guys -- the complimentary players like Skille and Bolland -- that comparison isn't apt, either. Arnason, Bell and Calder were asked to be stars on a team. They were pretty decent second and third line players, but they were basically asked to be the three of our best players, and that's not (or wasn't) very fair to them.

 

And we're not "relying" on Bolland, Versteeg and Skille. We're relying on the (afformentioned) Seabrook, Keith, Toews and Kane. If Toews doesn't miss those six weeks, is it really a stretch to think the Hawks would be anywhere from 4-8 points better than where they are now? I'd say the objective now would be finding one more guy who you can count on to net 25 a year.

 

I think its "rather laughable" that you assume you can rely on a 19 and 20 year old to play consistently for an entire year and lead a team to the playoffs, with average 'D' play, below average goal tending, and below average coaching.

 

Your right, you can rely on Seabrook, Keith - they're both 2-3 type defensemen, and you can rely on Kane and Toews (legitimate first line players) but you can't rely on ANYTHING else. While I hope I'm wrong, this core of players isn't good enough-yet to put a team on their backs.

 

So while ABC weren't as talented as K-T are , they are still being relied upon to be our best players... where my comparison comes in. While the team is much better off now than they were then, and its highly probable that K-T will produce much more than ABC, wouldn't it make more sense to surround a 19 and 20 year old with veteran skill (not Lapointe) so that they can go through their lumps while the team still wins?

 

Jonathan Toews is not Evegni Malkin, Patrick Kane is not Sidney Crosby, and Jack Skille is not Jordan Staal... this team needs help to take a BIG step next year.

[MurcieOne]

I disagree. The 'Hawks don't need any more toughness, they need some OLDER skill players that can show the young guys how to grow up. Richards would have been ideal but I understand why he came to Dallas instead of Chicago. Although, I wouldn't mind seeing a friend of mine in Chicago.

 

Naw, his website sucks!

[CWSGuy406]

Ruutu and Samsonov tonight.

 

5 points combined, +3.

Yay Hawks!!!!

 

Something isn't right with our system (read: coach). Not only are Samsonov and Ruutu (okay -- a little premature with Ruutu, but it's very clear with Samsonov) performing much better for other teams, Vrbata's on his way to a what -- 30 goal season?

 

I've been saying all season long to anyone who cares to listen that Ruutu -- even though he was having a terrible statistical season -- has the 'skills' to score goals. Gosh damn Ladd better pan out...

Edited March 2, 2008 by CWSGuy406

[kapkomet]

Naw, his website sucks!

His new one does, ya, the one I have nothing to do with.

 

[MurcieOne]

His new one does, ya, the one I have nothing to do with.

 

Touche

[kapkomet]

Touche

Actually going to have lunch right now (I think, if he ever calls... ) and we're gonna make a new one. It's gonna be fun.

 

[Kalapse]

The Hawks are absolutely dominating play halfway through this one. The new Ladd-Toews-Kane line has produced two scores (1st by Ladd, 2nd by Kane.) Very entertaining game thus far.

[DBAHO]

The Hawks really have to take this game to have any hopes of making the playoffs.

 

Let's hope that late Vancouver score in the 2nd doesn't come back to haunt us.

[CWSGuy406]

Jonathan Toews is not Evegni Malkin, Patrick Kane is not Sidney Crosby, and Jack Skille is not Jordan Staal... this team needs help to take a BIG step next year.

 

So Kane and Toews aren't the two best players in the world -- awesome, thanks for that insight. I'd argue that Toews has a shot in being in the tier directly below that, and Kane probably in the group below that.

 

These are guys you build your team around. I don't really know what you're arguing at this point, either. I agree that the Hawks do need to bring in a top six forward but beyond that I'm pretty happy with the guys we have. Another top-three defenseman? Ehh, maybe, but if you're going to commit all that money to someone like Campbell -- and he's going to get a lot of money and at least four years -- you're going to be in trouble in the third or fourth year when Seabrook and Keith will be looking for their next extensions (not to mention Wisniewski and Barker contracts).

 

A goalie? Most goalies are products of their systems, outside of the truely elite. I've seen people clamoring for Huet, but I've also read that he's more a system goalie than 'the next big thing'. Khabibulin and Lalime aren't long-term solutions and Crawford may not be either. Perhaps you wait until Ryan Miller becomes a free agent? I don't know -- the goalie situation is very difficult.

 

Most of the improvements for next season are going to come internally. Kane and Toews will have a year under their belt; Byfuglian can focus fully on being a power forward; Bolland and Barker will be primed to make the team out of camp. There's so much more, I could go on -- it's the benefit of having such a young team. After Tallon did such a good job building up the farm, it'd be a shame to (basically) kick it to the curb at this point. Sure, a good portion of those guys we've talked about for the past couple seasons may never do a damned thing in the NHL, but there's also a decent percentage who will pan out(looking at it now, if I had to guess, I'd say Bolland, Kontiola, Byfuglian and Skille look like keepers -- none of them great NHLers, but all have a shot at being decent second-or-third line types).

[DBAHO]

I'd say Huet's likely to stick in Washington now, if he performs well for them also.

 

They need a goalie long - term, with Kolzig likely to retire.

 

And a big win here for the Hawks. A totally dominant performance.

 

Only 6 points back of Vancouver now for that 8th spot.

[RockRaines]

So Kane and Toews aren't the two best players in the world -- awesome, thanks for that insight. I'd argue that Toews has a shot in being in the tier directly below that, and Kane probably in the group below that.

I'd argue that Kane belongs on the same Tier as Toews. Kane is going to turn out to be one of the more dynamic point scorers that we've seen in quite awhile.

[SoxFanForever]

I really like the new Ladd-Toews-Kane line. I think Ladd brings a certain element of toughness along with goal scoring touch.

[DBAHO]

When experts were asked who they'd choose b/w Kane and Toews, 9 out of 10 said Toews IIRC.

 

They said that Kane could get over 100 points in a season, but Toews is the type of player (a better offensive version of Rod Brindamour) that wins you a championship.

 

And I don't think it's any secret we've won 7 out of our last 10 with Toews starting to round into form.

[DBAHO]

For those who saw the game, how is Barker's game now compared to where he was when he 1st called up this season?

 

Sounds as if (from an outsider's P.O.V) that he isn't as tentative now as he was originally.

[Steve9347]

Just back from the Dominican Republic, wanted to chime in on the Ladd deal.

 

I think it's great for the Hawks, really underrated. Yeah, I like Ruutu, but I think he had leveled off as a player. Ladd comes in with some pretty sick scoring ability (yet another top 5 draft pick on the Blackhawks)... he's also a perfect fit on a line with Kane and Toews.

 

Sure, Ruutu will light it up in Carolina (hell, look at Samsonov), but in the end, I think this winds up as a deal that's good for both quads.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Steve9347

[DBAHO]

Just makes you wonder if it's something about the Hawks offensive system, that only really good players can excel in (I don't know what type of system it is compared to other teams).

 

A team such as Carolina that is using Samsonov and Ruutu on their top 2 lines, they don't seem to have any problems.

 

Or whether it just takes a long time to learn. Someone such as Patrick Sharp for instance is only coming into his own now after a couple of seasons with the Hawks.

 

Ladd seems to be the new Mark Bell, prototypical power forward, I would look for similar type of production (and hopefully none of the off-field problems).

[MurcieOne]

So Kane and Toews aren't the two best players in the world -- awesome, thanks for that insight. I'd argue that Toews has a shot in being in the tier directly below that, and Kane probably in the group below that.

 

These are guys you build your team around. I don't really know what you're arguing at this point, either. I agree that the Hawks do need to bring in a top six forward but beyond that I'm pretty happy with the guys we have. Another top-three defenseman? Ehh, maybe, but if you're going to commit all that money to someone like Campbell -- and he's going to get a lot of money and at least four years -- you're going to be in trouble in the third or fourth year when Seabrook and Keith will be looking for their next extensions (not to mention Wisniewski and Barker contracts).

 

A goalie? Most goalies are products of their systems, outside of the truely elite. I've seen people clamoring for Huet, but I've also read that he's more a system goalie than 'the next big thing'. Khabibulin and Lalime aren't long-term solutions and Crawford may not be either. Perhaps you wait until Ryan Miller becomes a free agent? I don't know -- the goalie situation is very difficult.

 

Most of the improvements for next season are going to come internally. Kane and Toews will have a year under their belt; Byfuglian can focus fully on being a power forward; Bolland and Barker will be primed to make the team out of camp. There's so much more, I could go on -- it's the benefit of having such a young team. After Tallon did such a good job building up the farm, it'd be a shame to (basically) kick it to the curb at this point. Sure, a good portion of those guys we've talked about for the past couple seasons may never do a damned thing in the NHL, but there's also a decent percentage who will pan out(looking at it now, if I had to guess, I'd say Bolland, Kontiola, Byfuglian and Skille look like keepers -- none of them great NHLers, but all have a shot at being decent second-or-third line types).

 

I think it's "rather laughable" that this is continuing. All I am saying, is that this team needs help going into next year. I agree with you... in their primes, Kane and Toews will be Type-A players - but I don't see them preforming at that level NEXT YEAR. I think it would be frivolous to assume that, and based on that I think you need to find them some veteran help.

 

This franchise has some good young talent in the minors- "thanks, awesome insight." Bolland, Bickell, Brouwer, Skille, Versteeg, and Davis are probably the crop of young forwards that are most ready to make an impact within the next year. It's a talented group, but I think we'd all agree that there are no stars in that pool. Bolland is probably the best out of that bunch, and he's not a top line player (we agree I'm assuming per your "awesome insight"). That being said, I think he will be a good point producing 2nd line, a role I wouldn't expect him to fill NEXT YEAR.

 

Regardless, I do think the odds are in our favor that one will contribute and play serious minutes, but thats NOT the type of mindset that teams who MAKE THE PLAYOFFS have going into the season. When GOOD teams have their young guys break out and contribute... its a pleasant surprise, not expected of them. So I just think it would make more sense to bring in some proven forward(s) talent to solidify the top six and take pressure off of Kane and Toews. (which i believe we both agree on).

 

This franchise needs to make the playoffs next year, to build on the momentum of this year, thats my opinion. Based on that feeling I think that they need to find pieces outside of the organization to fill the holes that exist. There are NOT as many as holes as before - and this team is heading in a positive direction - but the best way to nurture the best two players that have come to Chicago since Roenick and Larmer... is to NOT ask them to carry the team in their second season. That just my opinion, of which i'll agree to disagree.

 

[MurcieOne]

Ladd seems to be the new Mark Bell, prototypical power forward, I would look for similar type of production (and hopefully none of the off-field problems).

 

 

That seems like a fair comparison, Bell and Ladd seem to have similar skill sets (although i think Ladd is a stronger skater). Bell scored 45 and 48 pts his last two years with the Hawks... when our teams were among the worst in the league scoring wise. I think if Ladd gets the chance to play the amount of minutes Bell did in those years, with Kane and Toews instead of Arnason and Calder... he'd improve on those point totals by a decent amount.

 

This line of Ladd-Toews-Kane seems like a good fit. This seems like an improved vision of what Savvy wanted to do with Ruutu-Toews-Kane earlier in the year, but Ladd fits better because he's better on the puck and can faster than Rudy.

 

If he finishes the year strong, it will be interesting to see what the team does with him (he's a RFA right?).

[Metz]

Well it was quick enough to throw out that Ladd-Toews-Kane line .. real nice to hear .. Kane takes the point lead again for Rookies at 55 ahead of Backstrom

 

I am officially going to the March 19th game with my dad giving him the tickets as a birthday gift .. should be fun .. forked up some good money for me only being a teenager still heh

 

 

[SoxAce]

Looks like Toews got a cut on his mouth and a chipped tooth. (damn that hurts) He's gonna get 50 stitches INSIDE his mouth. (speaking from experience, its beyond hell) Hopefully he'll be straight.